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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

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OfflinePsiloPsyKo
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Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 8
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Sad PsyKo...
    #3923222 - 03/15/05 11:24 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Don't know if you remember me or not, but I posted about... 12 days ago concerned about the temperatures of my current "Homework assignment"...
This time around I decided to try something a little different, and instead of culturing nothing but jars, I prepared two jars and one bag. They're all stored in the same location and temperatures, where inoculated at the same time with the same spores from the same syringe. I've found a surefire way to keep my wicked children warm, and about 5 days ago I began seeing the first mycellium inching around the bag, but even to this moment nothing has happened in the jars. Eh? Should I panic? Has anyone else had a similar experience? It's been almost two weeks now and the jars look barren. Only a few differences:
1. The bag is tall, has more air, and I put about half a jars' worth of substrate in it cause I expected something to go wrong. This was my experimental factor.
2. Less substrate, but since I had just under enough spore solution to start another jar I squirted the rest into the bag, so there is a higher spore/substrate ratio.

Help me. Please.


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OfflineDarkie
Bitches n hoes dont mean a thing
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Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 216
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: PsiloPsyKo]
    #3923978 - 03/16/05 02:23 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Hmmmm....what kind of jars? Did you let them cool enough? Too wet? I really cant think of any other reasons there would be nothing at all.


--------------------
You gotta wake up to get faded but you gotta get up to get paided.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 4,898
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: Darkie]
    #3924159 - 03/16/05 03:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

2weeks?...Contamed is my bet.

I noticed that with all my jars, when they dont germinate, it's b/c the contamination set it first, and it usually looks like the grains are rotting lol, but my pf's are done it as well, nasty looking stuff, but you can only really tell when you shake the jar a bit so that the sub. can move, then you see it leave a nice slimy trail :smirk:

That or it's just taking forever for them to germinate...longest ive ever heard of is 14 days....
Gl

-Gnostic


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Offlinespud303
Pizza Punk.
Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 124
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3924396 - 03/16/05 06:35 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

if they are PFJARS (you failed to tell us what is IN the jars :smile:) it could be that you have your ratios messed up.  too much or too little  verm/BRF/H2O can throw colonization times way off, im told. 
Anyhow, the longest i've seen the start of a colonization take is around 2-3 weeks.  I say just wait -- the worst that can happen is that they never do colonize, but the practice wont hurt you any.

Also, *HOW* warm are you keeping your friends?  We all like to be warm, but that doesnt mean we'll sport a sweater in the summer, y'know?


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OfflinePsiloPsyKo
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Registered: 03/02/05
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: spud303]
    #3927730 - 03/16/05 10:18 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

These are PF style created with the "MM" grow guide. The ratios are as found in the guide to a tee. I obsess about measurements, and I assure that the ratios in the jars are as perfect as scientificly possible. The bag I have inoculated was the "odd leftovers" of the two jars, but with the same ratios of h20 brown rice (not flour ^_^) and vermiculite, grown at the same temps and it's doing WONDERFULLY. The jars confuse me though... The temperature coming out of the airduct is 85F but the box I have them in isn't sitting directly on top of it, it's off to the side, with the whole bit covered in a blanket. If the bag is exposed to the same temps as the jars, and is doing great, then whats up with the jars? Btw. The jars are not contaminated. I know this because of the rediculous measures I took for hospital style sterility. I even wipe the outsides of them in Isopropyl alcohol to kill anything that may have fallen on them. They do not smear when shaken either. AS for not being perfectly clear on what is in the jars, I find posting such information on a public board slightly... risky.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: PsiloPsyKo]
    #3927760 - 03/16/05 10:23 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Risky? :lol:

Dude, that's moronic :smirk:

Brown rice flour and verm. isn't what i'd call illegal, putting spores in there...still not illegal...once they germ., then worry, lol, sry, but Damn that was great :lol:

Good luck , sry about ur jars tho, that sux

-Gnostic


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: PsiloPsyKo]
    #3929184 - 03/17/05 07:36 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PsiloPsyKo said:
These are PF style created with the "MM" grow guide. The ratios are as found in the guide to a tee. I obsess about measurements, and I assure that the ratios in the jars are as perfect as scientificly possible. The bag I have inoculated was the "odd leftovers" of the two jars, but with the same ratios of h20 brown rice (not flour ^_^) and vermiculite, grown at the same temps and it's doing WONDERFULLY. The jars confuse me though... The temperature coming out of the airduct is 85F but the box I have them in isn't sitting directly on top of it, it's off to the side, with the whole bit covered in a blanket. If the bag is exposed to the same temps as the jars, and is doing great, then whats up with the jars? Btw. The jars are not contaminated. I know this because of the rediculous measures I took for hospital style sterility. I even wipe the outsides of them in Isopropyl alcohol to kill anything that may have fallen on them. They do not smear when shaken either. AS for not being perfectly clear on what is in the jars, I find posting such information on a public board slightly... risky.




Sometimes ratios need to be tweaked for optimum water content. All ingredients will vary on how much water they come with, and how much water they will hold and your BRF and verm will be no different.

I have found (with whole grains, never did the PF shit) that bags dry out quicker then jars do. Perhaps the jars were to wet and that is what is causeing things to be slow. Other then that, the jars may not have been cool in the center (you said the bag has a smaller mass, its probably spread out better too), and it may just be the extra air space in the bags doing you some good..

Perhaps its time to try whole grains if you have a PC? Then you have air in the jar and can shake them up...none of the issues with the PF Tek IMO.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflinePsiloPsyKo
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 8
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3929541 - 03/17/05 10:17 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Actually... I shouldn't have said PF style. I've changed some things around because every single one of my first true pf style cakes got contaminated. The last time I grew them, I grew them my way and it worked wonders. I don't know what a "PC" is, but there is airspace in my jars, and I am using whole grain brown rice as opposed to flour. Speaking of airspace, I have my jars sealed with saran wrap. I know this will slow them down a little bit later on in colonization, but it's a gaurantee that they won't become contaminated. Plastic is air permeable anyway, but perhaps I should poke little holes in it? The jars were definitely cooled off when I inoculated them, cause' I stuck them in the fridge for 10 mins and they were cool (not cold) to the touch on the edges where I inoculated them. On a side note: my brown rice and vermiculite came completely dry, so I'm not sure why I would need to tweak the ratios, but perhaps the guide was off to begin with?


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
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Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: PsiloPsyKo]
    #3929592 - 03/17/05 10:38 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

First off....it was not completely dry....weigh it and then bake it in the oven at 350 for 4 hours, then weigh it again and tell me it wasnt about 10-15% water..dry rye comes with that much water in it. The amount varies though depending on what grain, and what brand you use. Also the amount of water the brand of grain will hold varies.

Also you didnt do the PF Tek, if you used the same water ratios, you did it wrong. Whole grains need different water contents the flours, you used BR, not BRF. Your biggest problem here, is your following the wrong tek. Your not doing the PF Tek at all, but a whole grain tek..you should be shaking the jars...there should be no dry verm layer (the airspace I'm refering to)...you should have shaken the jars right out of the PC (Pressure cooker, you need to PC whole grains to be assured of no contams) and shaken them while they were hot to distribute wetter grains on the bottom of the jars and to loosen up the substrate a bit. You also shouldnt shake jars right after you inoculate them, though its often said to do so. You should shake the syringe right before inoculating though.

The guide could also be off, depending on where you got it from, but again your following a guide written for BRF, not whole grains. You also should not wrap your jars in plastic wrap....big big no no thats hurting you. Co2 buildup needs to be gotten rid of, and this is probably hurting you the most of everything..tyvek should be used from the begining for gas exchange. Plastic SLOWLY lets air permeate it, but it hardly allows air/gasses to excape at any sort of reasonable rate. Also.....sticking them in the fridge doesnt do shit other then cool off the outside. The inside could have still been plenty warm, while the outside was cool to the touch. I've taken jars and cooled them for a few hours, then stuck them in the fridge for 15 minutes and they felt cool...untill you shook them up and distributed the kernals..they felt pretty warm again afterwords. Not enough to kill everything, no, but slow it down a little..sure

All of these things coupled together, with a few more minor things that your or I probably missed, has slowed your jars down I'd say...


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinescatmanrav
Brainy Smurf

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,483
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Sad PsyKo... [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3929599 - 03/17/05 10:41 AM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Awsome indepth PF TEK:
http://www.fungifun.org/pf/pf_en.htm

The same guy on whole grains:
http://www.fungifun.org/grain/

The whole site:
http://www.fungifun.org/

Its by Anno here at the shroomery..


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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