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OfflineBlueOrb
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Depersonalisation
    #3921348 - 03/15/05 04:24 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

After a very bad mushroom experience some months ago, I was left with a feeling that I can only describe as HELL post trip. I felt detatched from the world, everything felt strange and meaningless. I didn't feel like me anymore, trapped inside myself. These feelings caused me great discomfort and anxiety. My thoughts would race.....Why am I here, What is the point in this etc etc..I would often fuck myself up with thoughts about the universe. I became aware of infinity, and my connectivity to all things. I am them and they are me. I am God. (Not in a delusional sense)I knew that I could never escape this system of things ever. My world felt a lot like a matrix, a trick, a delusion. The game was up and it scared me!

After a lot of research and investigation, I descovered that many people are experiencing similar thoughts and feelings. It is known as depersonalisation. I now know that I am not loosing my sanity. Do you know how frightening it is to believe you are going mad!

I still experience these sensations and thoughts, only now It doesnt cause as much anxiety or fear. I have accepted it.

My question is: Is depersonalisation a state of hightened awareness?

Does anyone here have a similar story to tell?

Sorry that this has been a long post, hope you find it an interesting topic of discussion.

Cheers guys.


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921380 - 03/15/05 04:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Is depersonalisation a state of heightened awareness?  hmm
Depersonalisation is the feeling of loss of sense of self.

according to http://www.depersonalization.info/overview.html the feeling is anything but heightened when you are experiencing it. 

The lesson of watching everything lose meaning that was once there and so real is maybe to teach that meaning is not concrete, real, permanent.  Therefore, that would render judgements such as Heightened and Lessened irrelevant and meaningless, only relevant in their context and time. 

So, is it a state of heightened consciousness?  One could argue that the fact that the state of depersonalization allows you to glean a lesson about the cosmos means that it is a heightened state.  Taken one step further, the revelatory state that comes when one sees the bigger picture or lesson that is imparted, is the heightened state.

Or maybe it's a sliding scale:
Consensus "normal" Awareness --> depersonalization ---> Revalatory state --> ??

Maybe next is re-integrating back into society, thus completing the journey of the shaman, through death, a deconstruction of the shaman, and then rebirth and reintegration into "normal" life. 

So, are you stuck in a matrix like grid?  Perhaps feeling trapped?  Well, that's because 'we can never be apart.  You are never lost, and you can never return or leave.  We are continuous and Indestinguishable.' :stoned:

:mushroom2:


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


Edited by sheister (03/15/05 04:38 PM)


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3921449 - 03/15/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Sounds like your everyday life depends to much on the system and you couldn't handle it. You realised you are everything, that is a great thing for don't you see the questions and mysteries it absolutly smashes to pieces as mere illusions?

You are stuck in the infinite that is true, but you are the infinite and some day we the infinite will realise this and time will stop because it is an illusion and then we will be limitless. /rant


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3921467 - 03/15/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

What am I? I am Everything and Nothing. I am all that is and all that is not. My human Ego is one perspective, the only perspective I believed until a few months ago. I dont know where I am going with this........ sometimes I wish I was still ignorant/unawre of the true nature of things. The universe is a hologram, our palate from which we paint. We are the creators, we are God.....the game is up!


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921488 - 03/15/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Does this knowledge scare you like it scares me?

Everything you have known or believed before enlightenment is false.

Why is this knowledge called enlightenment, because I feel burdened with it. I want to go backwards!


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921503 - 03/15/05 05:01 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you could try to meditate using some method of concentration to stabalize your mind. This way the questions and answers begin to lose there meaning  as you distingish 'you' from your thoughts and experiences. Then you can be in this limitless, timeless state more effeciently without thinking that you are going insane. Thoughts are just thougths, deep thinking gets you knowhere, fast!

I suggest get that maybe you could consider reading some books on basic meditation and start from there, becuase the more you leave this, the more frustrating this 'semi-knowing' becomes. Believe me, ive been there!  :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: egghead1]
    #3921511 - 03/15/05 05:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Well if you want to forget about it go engage yourself in societies rules, codes, sciences, laws, 5 senses... plug yourself back in to the sheep pen


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: egghead1]
    #3921521 - 03/15/05 05:06 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I need to commit to more meditation, I find it hard to put the time in though. However reading books on scientific theory/spiritual ideas I cant get enough of, yet it is these ideas which have contributed to my fucked up thoughts. Help me.....


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


Edited by BlueOrb (03/15/05 05:08 PM)


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: faslimy]
    #3921530 - 03/15/05 05:08 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldn't waste this opportunity for self-knowledge by plugging yourself back into the matrix. That would be pretty stupid now wouldn't it.

Choosing temporary pleasures over the opportunity for true happiness is just ignorance. I'm not sure that you would sauced in this even if you tried, there will always be that nagging splinter in your mind if you pass up this opportunity.


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: egghead1]
    #3921534 - 03/15/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

So will happiness return, or will the burden of knowledge always be with me now?


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921537 - 03/15/05 05:10 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Stop reading, Start doing. Just relax and feel the love for a while, then when you feel ready to do a little, do it in a really lazy, relaxed way ..... :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921564 - 03/15/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Of course happiness will return. Experiences of sadness, happiness and the whole range of emotional states of mind fluctuate constantly, im sure you will experience happiness again, in fact im absolutely certain of it. But you can also try to immerse youslef a little in society again, after all, enligthenment is a kitchen sink affair..... :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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InvisibleNariusFractal
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3921578 - 03/15/05 05:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The realization is neutral. What you do with it is you. That is the point of you existing, being the collections of experiences that is your soul - coming about as the result of the total yield of your decisions.

So choice is 'it'

Your choice is you. What you do today, you become tomorrow.
Realize the way to make thie better again is not to choose to forget it. YOu can never forget it. The symptoms one experiences while feeling depersonalized are anything but ambiguous.

You must choose to love it, to embrace the situation you are in. The only thing you will know for sure during your stint here on earth as BlueOrb is the sum of your experiences.

Words create the illusion that you know more than you do. You can read something, and imagine it, and you have somewhat experience. But experience, the kind that comes from doing, is much more impressionable. In fact, reading is an experience.

So, you must embrace this life, keep living. The weight on your back is heavy, but you are strong. You will never have more than you can bear. Embrace your new experiences, keep living, and learn to love your life again.


--------------------
You are the microcosm of the macrocosm.


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: NariusFractal]
    #3921606 - 03/15/05 05:27 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Cheers guys, off to bed now, but will pick this up again tomorow


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3921708 - 03/15/05 05:55 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Depersonalization and derealization are psychiatric terms for states of consciousness that are deemed pathological :sick: by medical and psychological models. They often result during psychedelic trips and can last for varying times afterwards.

In The Psychedelic Experience by Leary et al., the authors refer to these states as 'Visions,' and your description above seems like the "plastic doll phase" of "Vision 5." I mention this without details because, as you say, many of these writings are contributing to your discomfort. However, I do want you to know that your experience is well-known and has been categorized.

Ram Dass in BE HERE NOW and other writings has likewise pointed out that there is no acceptable niche for these states of consciousness in Western culture, and they are relegated to conditions of mental illness, while in India and Tibet (for example) experiences of depersonalizations represent a loosening of associations that we ordinarily think of as 'me' - our ego. This is a Holy condition in the East, and people will recognize it and regard it with respect, while in the West weakened ego-strength is regarded as mental illness. You need to understand the cultural relativity of these two points of view in order to help yourself. Whether seen as Holy or ill, you are vulnerable for the time being.

Do things to ground you in the Earth plane - the first three chakras, or, the Kabbalistic Malkuth. Literally labor in the Earth - garden, landscape, do physical labor in order to re-root you primarily in the physical body. Water - take long hot showers to 'cleanse your magnetic field' as the Chisti Sufis say. Take hot baths. Do not use cannabis or any other psychedelics for the time being. This is very important. Consider eating more 'Tamasic' foods - tubers, roots, potatoes, carrots, turnips (maybe in stews) - plants that grow 'in' the Earth (this is Ayurvedic). Avoid extremely abstract writings that pull your energy up from the lower grounding centers to the 'head' centers. For sleep disturbances try 1 mg Melatonin or 2 Valerian capsules (preferably after a hot bath). Milk and bananas contain L-Tryptophan which becomes Serotonin and aids sleep (or 5-HTP capsules).

The so-called psychedelic flashback is usually a reappearance of these depersonalized or derealized states, according to Andrew Weil, M.D. Don't panic, they can be a useful phase in one's meditative quest for detachment and dispassion. You are fearful because it has remained without you having control over it, so, just like a trip, go with the flow - as long as you are still functional in the world. If the states begin to interfere with work, driving, survival-needs in general, you might then consult a psychiatrist for anti-anxiety medication for a while.

As to meditation, I would consider doing a Zazen practice even if this is not your current choice. Focus on the 'Hara' between the genitals and navel provides a low psychophysical 'center-of-gravity' to facilitate you getting grounded. Sorry to sound too 'cosmic' here but these 'spacey' states are connected to the Heart, Throat and Head Centers in Buddhist and Hindu Yoga psychology (where the Brain Center is not the only locus of consciousness).

Stay in touch - on every level of meaning :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineBlueOrb
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3924280 - 03/16/05 04:27 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Markosthegnostic,

Thank you for that contribution. I have already subconsciously sought out many of your suggestions, such as the dietary choices, melatonin at night and spending time in nature,walking/gardening etc. These have helped. I do feel that I have made some progress, as the fear/anxiety element has almost faded now. However, regaining that previous state of joy and happiness is proving more difficult. I am not depressed, but neither do I experience elation like before. Also, I haven't used entheogens for some months now. I often wonder whether I will be able to ever use them again. I have had so many wonderful experiences with the mushroom, that the thought of not being able to use them again is upsetting. I have never really been a fan of cannabis, and on the occasions that I have used it, it has put me into that fearful/anxious state. I have used many drugs over my life time including LSD, Mushrooms, Ketamine, Salvia, Amphetamine, MDMA, Cocaine, Benzodiazipines, Codeine and Alcohol. I was addicted to alcohol until about 5 years ago. I stopped drinking and have remained sober ever since, but my use in other drugs became greater, but not a problem like the drink did. I discovered entheogens approx' 2 years ago, it was a revelation, and all other drug use almost stopped.
Since my last trip, I have felt unable to use any drugs other than anti axiolitic types, and these have been used sparingly. I feel that any altered state of consciousness (Drug induced) just magnifies the bad feelings. So will I ever be able to return to using entheogens again?
I am not sure why I am having to experience this state of consciousness I am now in, and my frustration is exacerbated by the fact that non of my peer group have felt like this. They just say that I am becoming my mind, or that I am weak willed. However this is not the case.
In the past I have undergone some heavy duty level 4-5 trips without any problems, so what changed me last time?


--------------------
"They are trying to build a prison, for you and me to live in"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3924452 - 03/16/05 07:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Hey, things change, it is the nature of things. I can't get my diastolic blood pressure to go lower than 94. It was medically corrected to 120/80 for a decade. On MDMA, it went from 120/80 to 165/92. I dare not take it if my baseline is 159/94. Fortunately the systolic has dropped and so it reads 122/94, but Mushrooms also increase the BP and I really don't want a stroke. So, I am taking meds, stopped coffee (green tea instead, and I'm about to take a first sip of a new brand right now), Carlson Fish Oil and Flax Seed Oil, and workouts on a Bowflex TreadClimber (which drops the BP). So, I have physical problems to work on while you have psychological problems to work on.

BTW, when you stabilize somewhat, a pinch - 2-3 hits of Passion Flower in a pipe not only gets one stoned (if one is NOT using cannabis), but it lends an anxiolytic and an anti-depressant effect for 24 hours. Doesn't seem to interfere with memory and isn't very habituating. I've used it as needed since my divorce in '92.

I hope things improve rapidly.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3924561 - 03/16/05 09:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

there are SOME similarities to the "depersonalization state" and the "ego loss state"...

as to how to "ground" yourself...
yep, some good suggestions here...
there is an overlap between tryptophan metabolism & niacin metabolism in humans... some folks find that those pesky sensations of unreality can rapidly fade if they increase their intake of vitamin B3 (in any of several forms) from the few milligrams per day (USRDA) to a few hundred milligrams per day...
lotta research & anecdotal support per the work of canadian physician/psychiatrist dr abram hoffer (megavitamin therapy; orthomolecual psychiatry; LSD therapy for alcoholics; dosed aldous huxley (doors of perception; heaven & hell; moksha; island; etc.) with mescaline, etc...)

"earth" yeah, gardening, walking barefoot, mineral baths, sauna, earthy foods (roots, grains & beans, maybe meat...), phsyicality - running, busting some sweat, tender love-making, things of the flesh, dig?

"sit grandly, like a tree or a mountain" - yeah, zazen could help...
chop wood, carry water...
chant, sing, breathe...
connect with other warm, suffering humans...
~
& like those mynah birds on the island of pala were trained to say:
attention...
karuna...
here and now, boys, here and now...

~
be well...


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3924904 - 03/16/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

As Don Jaun says, "you are beginning to learn'


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Depersonalisation [Re: BlueOrb]
    #3925145 - 03/16/05 01:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Everyone contributed some good advice so far, especially Markos. You need to get grounded again. Make that your priority.

I've "suffered" strong depersonalization twice, once from cannabis abuse and once from DXM abuse (and I use the word abuse here purposely). I know how mentally painful it can be, not feeling connected to the things that once defined your life. It's like your struggling to stay afloat in the ocean of reality and you have nothing to grab onto. From my own experience, I'll say that your ego probably won't ever return to the state it was before this happened. You can get close, with effort, but the subconscious memory of depersonalization stays with you.

The good news is, you will regain some of your ego, and what you don't regain is made up for by adjusting to this state. And you will adjust eventually. The sense of detachment will some day be to your advantage. The hobbies you lose interest in, the friends you find you can't relate to anymore, don't worry about them for now. You may or may not regain interest in them later. Try not to freak out. Thinking too much about it will just increase your anxiety. The anxiety increases to a point occasionally where school or work seems impossible. I know. Just have faith that you'll feel "normal" again soon and it will bring that sense of normalcy to you quicker.

When you begin to feel normal again, you'll find that it's not the same normal you were before. You'll start thinking about everyday things in strange new ways that you never considered before. Your eyes are more open, you'll feel lighter, freer. That is the wonder of detachment.  :smile:


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