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 starptv23
kindchicka420
Registered: 10/10/04
Posts: 409
Loc: dancing in my head
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
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 Carlos Castaneda 
#3913982 - 03/13/05 10:29 PM (18 years, 10 days ago) |
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http://www.castaneda.com/
According to don Juan, the world of everyday life is as mysterious and rich as anything can be. All we need to pluck its wonders is enough detachment. But more than detachment, we need affection and abandon.
is anyone into his books ???
they have changed my mind in alot of ways 
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"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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 Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: starptv23]
#3914521 - 03/14/05 12:42 AM (18 years, 10 days ago) |
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Yeah, i have posted a few threads about some Don Juan stuff in here. Id post a link to some of the threads, but i can never remember the tags.
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 mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: starptv23]
#3915428 - 03/14/05 07:31 AM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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schmektron
Vainglorious
Registered: 04/25/04
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I think the first Don Juan book (Teachings of Don Juan, Yaqui way of knowledge) is fairly genuine. However, I think all the subsequent books are somewhat false (Casteneda wanted to make more ca$h), which therefore makes the whole series tainted.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,215
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I loved his books.
a bit confusing but easy to identify with.
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egghead1
Nakedly Open
Registered: 03/02/05
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Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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I agree the first one is quite interesting, but the rest seem fictional, although still mildly amusing. Thats just my opinion anyways
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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: egghead1]
#3916866 - 03/14/05 03:27 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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I have read them all most of them twice. I don't think they were ever represented as total fact. For many years they were published as fiction. He was not selling factual truth, but philosophy. They are multileveled in their depth and not meant to be taken literally. If you approach them in the mode of myths or fables such as Native American teaching stories there is much truth. If you are looking for verifiable fact you are looking in the wrong place.
"This book is both ethnography and allegory."
This is from the intro to the first book. Castaneda's greatest acomplishment was to inspire a generation of anthropologists and ethnographers to seriously study Native American customs and religion.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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" but the rest seem fictional,"
the story teller is the truth, the story told is fiction..
 (i just don't know when to shut up? now do I)
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Disclaimer!?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: starptv23]
#3916962 - 03/14/05 03:49 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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While his books have been read by many, I never knew/met/heard of a single soul who accomplished even the simplest sorcerer task after studying his texts.
they have changed my mind in alot of ways
So have Dr. Seuss' writings changed people's minds. Castaneda's books were about were about accessing non-ordinary reality.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: starptv23]
#3916993 - 03/14/05 03:56 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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In truth Casteneda has been worshipped, raped, and murdered, on this forum. Most of the stuff I have read in both camps...the for and the against is quite ill informed. Most people commenting on his work have never read any of it much less all of it. People can't seem to get past the issue of factual truth. Whether it is fact or not is beside the point. It is mostly false, but emminently true. It is entirely correct to be influenced by it as long as you remember that Don Juan was a trickster archetype...and Castaneda invented Don Juan (he did use historical models). Castaneda portrayed himself as the anti-thesis of Don Juan's teachings...and a total buffoon, but it is Castaneda who was the trickster. By the way, Carlos Castaneda never existed; Carlos Castaneda was just as much an invention as Don Juan. The factual biography of the man known as Carlos Castaneda was entirely false (even in "Who's Who")...even his name. If you understand these books you will understand and appreciate that.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
#3916998 - 03/14/05 03:57 PM (18 years, 9 days ago) |
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"While his books have been read by many, I never knew/met/heard of a single soul who accomplished even the simplest sorcerer task after studying his texts."
You have missed the point...did you read them? If so read them again.
"So have Dr. Seuss' writings changed people's minds"
Then they had a valid sociological impact.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
Edited by Huehuecoyotl (03/14/05 04:03 PM)
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
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Quote:
schmektron said:
I think the first Don Juan book (Teachings of Don Juan, Yaqui way of knowledge) is fairly genuine. However, I think all the subsequent books are somewhat false (Casteneda wanted to make more ca$h), which therefore makes the whole series tainted.
I actually believe the opposite. The first book was drivel compared to the rest. It hooked me to the series when i was 15, mainly via the drug appeal. After "a seperate reality" there is very little drug talk or action and it focuses more on the philosophical aspects of shamanism.
Also, Dr. Seuss made very many valid points on morality and ethics. Just read the Lorax.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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I found "Journey to Ixtlan" to be the most important to me. It helped me to define my personal mythology.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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WildRunner
Obey little,Resist much
Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Where the wild things are
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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I just finished reading The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. Easy read, I read it in like 3 days, but it was really a good read.
Recommended. 
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If you dont know where you're going, any road will take you there.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
In truth Casteneda has been worshipped, raped, and murdered, on this forum. Most of the stuff I have read in both camps...the for and the against is quite ill informed. Most people commenting on his work have never read any of it much less all of it. People can't seem to get past the issue of factual truth. Whether it is fact or not is beside the point. It is mostly false, but emminently true. It is entirely correct to be influenced by it as long as you remember that Don Juan was a trickster archetype...and Castaneda invented Don Juan (he did use historical models). Castaneda portrayed himself as the anti-thesis of Don Juan's teachings...and a total buffoon, but it is Castaneda who was the trickster. By the way, Carlos Castaneda never existed; Carlos Castaneda was just as much an invention as Don Juan. The factual biography of the man known as Carlos Castaneda was entirely false (even in "Who's Who")...even his name. If you understand these books you will understand and appreciate that.
I couldn't agree more. I have read the first four books over twenty times in the last 27+ years, and I have been changed by them. I never worry about the trivial discussions about did he or didn't he.
There is truth there for those willing to take that kind of challenge. That's the only important thing.
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While his books have been read by many, I never knew/met/heard of a single soul who accomplished even the simplest sorcerer task after studying his texts.
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You mean tasks like taking responsibility? Using death as an advisor? Turning you're life into a path with heart? Not indulging? ect.
You're hanging out with the wrong crowd. I know some who never read the books,who have accomplished these things.
The Power Plants in themselves can put you on that path.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
#3952002 - 03/22/05 12:08 AM (18 years, 2 days ago) |
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"You mean tasks like taking responsibility? Using death as an advisor? Turning you're life into a path with heart? Not indulging? ect."
Awesome point. I myself have accomplished these acts of sorcery. Finally, someone who got it.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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a_h_w
Stranger
Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 236
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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yes! to be stuck in the 'is this fiction or not?' question is to miss completely the nature of these texts and the messages they convey.
but the real strange thing for me was how reading castaneda books started to influence my trips to an extensive degree.
some books I couldn't find in english so I started reading in spanish. I've stop reading now, but for some time every time I tripped I would start speaking in spanish with myself, my thoughts constructing in spanish, a weird feeling pervading the experience, and somehow the feeling that I was entering in the field of sorcery, like one time I was sitting on the couch not feeling very well, until the thought crossed my mind that I was being "attacked" and had to dance in a particular way throughout the living room so as to win the territory back, which proved effective, but I don't like any of this stuff so I quit on all that and moved elsewhere in my mind.
I don't like to use entheogens as a means to communicate with the dead or the underworld.
I like to use them to communicate with life, to find new worlds of beauty, fantasy and love.
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dorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: a_h_w]
#3984751 - 03/29/05 10:38 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nothing in these books are true, but that's exactly how things are? 
Journey to Ixtlan was a beautiful read. Much grounded wisdom and those relieving metaphors finally tricking the chaos into illusion of systems - as tools. *kra kra*
?We are all going to face infinity, whether we like it or not. Why do we do it when we are weakest, when we are broken, at the moment of dying? Why not when we are strong? Why Not Now?" Carlos Castaneda
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: dorkus]
#3984829 - 03/29/05 11:01 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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Castaneda performed a societally-useful function for getting our confused youth onto a path of clarity via datura ingestion.
"Just say 'Huh?' to datura."
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Swami]
#3986286 - 03/29/05 05:34 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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"Castaneda performed a societally-useful function for getting our confused youth onto a path of clarity via datura ingestion."
Anyone stupid enough to ingest a poisonous substance because they saw it in a book is an idiot. I thought the movie "The Matrix" was cool, but I don't go around trying to plug electrical wires into my head. Similarly I enjoyed "Natural Born Killers", but I don't go around wasting people with shotguns. I loved the book Dracula....but I don't think I am a vampire...hell, I don't even believe in them. And finally, I read the Bible, but I have not attempted genocide, built an ark, walked on water, sacrificed my son, or thought I was the anti-Christ....I'm not even a Christian. Anyone who casually ingests Datura in such a naive fashion is a prime candidate for a Darwin Award.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Yea. I agree. Those books give you principles not rules. I know alot of guys who went looking for Don Jaun in the 70s. Even though
Don Jaun says that only crazy people go looking to become a sorcerer.
Don Jaun says you don't toy with these plants. Just because a fool chooses to pick and choose what he will listen to, does not detract one bit from the books themselves.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
#3986832 - 03/29/05 07:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I theorize that much of the psychotropic plant use was a hook to interest counter-culture readers. The later books de-emphasized them completely.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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You could be right. That would make sense if the goal was to influence rather than just to become famous and make a buck.
Personally I believe the former.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,215
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I think I like green eggs and ham, I do, I do like them, Sam I am. [Re: Swami]
#3989637 - 03/30/05 10:13 AM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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I have to admit I have read dr.seuss more times than carlos casteneda, but, dr.seuss painted and mumbo jumboed his jolly visions to paper and published them for our entertainment and betterment; and casteneda took us on a ride to indiginous traditional access methods, and through his own mysterious psyche.
when you finally get to "the other side" the dr. seuss world may emerge as a de-facto reality.
this could be argued, few besides seuss have so effectively brought back any significant souvenirs - usually the only souvenir is one's self, and one's story.
there is plenty of magic here, but you need to be open to that, entheogen may help.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
#3990709 - 03/30/05 02:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago) |
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That was what I was implying. It was a good way to reach many young people who would never have read a book about the benefit of taking responsibility for one's self. Entheogens are traditionally used in the training of a shaman, but their use IS NOT shamanism by itself. Not that Castaneda's books were howto shamanism books...they addressed a wider field than healing.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
Registered: 04/30/03
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Loc: isle de la muerte 
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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I found Castaneda amazingly insightful. I've read all of his books, and I especially like "The Eagle's Gift." I liked the idea that one has to live impeccably like a warrior in order to have awareness against the eagle which devours us.
I always loved the Thunderbird symbol when I was a kid and felt it had power. My father gave me a thunderbird key chain when I was really young and the feeling of it used to give me a sense of power and wishfulness. I used to keep it like a talisman.
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...or something
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: eve69]
#4447691 - 07/24/05 05:52 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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In the second ring of power, there is a conversation where Don Juan tells Carlos that it is impossible to become a man of knowledge or a warrior with entheogens alone, and goes as far to say you dont need them at all. Carlos gets angry and asks why he had to take all that shit, and Don Juan says he had to jostle and shock him out of his reality and pretty much de-americanize him.
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LittleBen
Feed Me A StrayCat
Registered: 08/31/02
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Huehuecoyotl hit it on the head with his first two posts.
Second ring of power meant the most to me. The nagul and tonal was it? Thinking about different planes in my mind taught me how to meditate. I dont know about 'Seeing' but learning to be aware of energy all around you is definitely aided by these books.
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Gaia, as you awaken, I heal myself. As I awaken, you are healed.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: LittleBen]
#4448088 - 07/24/05 07:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The first 4 were the ones I got into. I read them 21 times from 1972 until now. They still are meaningfull and ring true. I agree that Hue nailed it. He understands what these books are about.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grav
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Posts: 4,454
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Icelander]
#4450320 - 07/25/05 11:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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i have red A Yaqui Way of Knowledge and Tales of Power. I'm halfway through A Seperate Reality.. I only read a few chapters every couple of months because I find the content to be pretty mind boggling.
i wouldnt want to guess what it is all about, but definately entertaining and interesting reads. i love it whenever don Juan or don Genaro go off on their crazy acrobatic tangents.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: Grav]
#4450437 - 07/25/05 12:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you read them in order they make much more sense. An alternate is to read Journey to Ixtlan first. Either option will make your understanding of the books more clear. I have read most of them 2 times and Ixtlan 5 times. Exerytime I have read them I learned something I missed before.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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I have foudn that the teachings of Don Juan arent even needed to read. The only really interesting thing is the part of the back of the book which goes into detail the preperation of the certain drugs...
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
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"I have foudn that the teachings of Don Juan arent even needed to read. The only really interesting thing is the part of the back of the book which goes into detail the preperation of the certain drugs..."
The drug preparations in the book are bogus. If you use them as drug manuals you will end up in trouble. Everybody knows you can't smoke mushrooms...and playing with Datura in any form is bad news. The books are about philosophy. The drug issue was a hook to get young "hip" readers. If one has no interest in Castaneda one does not have to look at the book at all. If one is interested it is good to start with book one and go cover to cover then move to the next, otherwise don't bother.
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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MJF
Human Being
Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 1,820
Loc: Between 15 and 45 degrees...
Last seen: 1 year, 15 days
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"Everybody knows you can't smoke mushrooms..."
I just started reading A Separate Reality a few days ago and although don Juan calls it "little smoke" and makes a mixture that he smokes...in the preface of the book it says how the fine mushroom poweder does not burn and is digested. i should probably find exactly what it says but i'm too lazy right now.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,679
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Carlos Castaneda [Re: MJF]
#4454389 - 07/26/05 05:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is no historical precedence for it. If you try inhalation/ingestion you will burn yourself, there is no way to ingest a sufficient quantity of mushrooms with this method. Gordon Wasson noted that there is no history of native use based on this method. His descriptiions of drug experiences were also based in fantasy. I am not saying these books have no value, but you got to look deeper than their attempt at "hipness".
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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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