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Offlinefresh313
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visual expression of the brain
    #3913427 - 03/13/05 10:26 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

what eyes percieve as colors are controlled by sections of the brain, these colors effectively express a seperation and display of independent function, expressing its individual visual colors, if the visual component is seperated it is logical to assume the other functions of the section are also seperated in a similar fashion

if everything we see is merely an illusion, then an illusion to the illusion makes the spectrum visible


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3913466 - 03/13/05 10:37 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

these colors effectively express a seperation and display of independent function

are you suggesting that the different colours serve different 'functions'?

seems to me that the section of the colour wheel humans are able to perceive is somewhat specific to humans, and therefore must serve a specific purpose. Otherwise we wouldn't see those colours, because those of us who had in the past would have been killed off by natural selection to leave those who see the most 'useful' array of colours.

since natural selection has determined which wavelengths we are able to see, then I'd agree that colours serve functions.

if the visual component is seperated it is logical to assume the other functions of the section are also seperated in a similar fashion

you lost me here. visual component of what? section of what?


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OfflineGomp
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3913537 - 03/13/05 10:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"With the 'right' kind of eyes, one could even see smell."
-Unknown :P


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OfflineGomp
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3913549 - 03/13/05 10:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:

you lost me here. visual component of what? section of what?




""what eyes percieve as colors are controlled by sections of the brain""


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OfflineBoneMan
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: Gomp]
    #3913809 - 03/13/05 11:56 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"since natural selection has determined which wavelengths we are able to see"

do you think there are other wavelengths that another life form would be able to see? colors we couldnt ever imagine?? i dont think so. colors of light are similar notes of sound. we have different wavelengths determining different tones of sound or light, but once you go through the spectrum you find urself back at the first tone, just an octave higher. if light and sound are similar like this then i would guess that the wavelengths we can't see are just like the spectrum we're able to see, just at varying 'octaves'


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: BoneMan]
    #3913847 - 03/14/05 12:01 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the wave lengths of light are the same yet the perception of the wavelengths can be expressed in many shades of gray the same as in colors


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3914434 - 03/14/05 02:21 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

we are getting color blobs from the cones in the retina of eye.
the brain enjoys playing with color relationships and progressions.
even without functional eyes, the visual cortex can play with colroed progressions - but that is quite rare.
see
http://members.tripod.com/~AnAHomepage/esref-1.html
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg18524841.700
very interesting effects from the use of visual cortex even if blind.


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OfflinePsilocinSam
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3914872 - 03/14/05 04:18 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with redgreenvines, your basic assumption is flawed. Our eyes are what create the colours we see. Our brains merely process this information into a usable form.

Cones and rods, colours and contrast. The more concentrated the cones and rods, the higher the resolution of the eye (effectively, though there are some problems with Quantum Interference at resolutions that are too high, hence why high MP digital cameras CAN give worse pictures than lower ones) and so the better the quality of the image we see.

The real question is, how come our eyes have a resolution of less than your TV, and yet we perceive a completely flawless, smooth reality all the time? (also, in that case, why do we NEED TVs of such high resolution (lower res ones look blocky))

That's my candle of incrimination! :stoned::mushroom2:


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: PsilocinSam]
    #3915085 - 03/14/05 05:32 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the eye is more of a video camera than a projector, the image is captured by the eyes and converted to raw data, then this raw data is processed by the brain to create what you see.

psilocinsam, visual processing is a complex task requiring much raw data and processing capacities. basically you turn up the resolution of your favorite rpg and the fps drops below 30 making playing this game at an increased resolution immpractical. the human brain is a finely tuned machine but it still has limitations to its simultaneous processing abilities.

we ( people that can see ) have devoted a large amount of brainpower into seeing. think about all the images we have stored in our lives, thats alot of data to be able to store and recall even if vaguely, if you could not see from the time you were born you could use these processing faculties for other things

im sure someone that is blind can process, store, and playback a much greater library of sounds than of a comparable sighted musician


Edited by fresh313 (03/14/05 06:06 AM)


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3915114 - 03/14/05 05:41 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

the situation of turning up the resolution leads to an information overload, now what if you could turn down the resolution to reduce the amount of incoming information. you already have the increased processing capacity of seeing at a higher resolution, so this freed up processing power can be used for other tasks


Edited by fresh313 (03/14/05 06:05 AM)


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OfflinePsilocinSam
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3915141 - 03/14/05 05:48 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I understand that visual processing takes place in the brain. But the eye is what creates the raw data for colours (that being the nature of this post).

Also the current theory relating to my question of eye resolution vs reality has a lot to do with those stored images you mention. You already know what a tree looks like, so as long as you are able to interpret the PATTERN of the particular tree, your brain can react the majority of that piece of scenery. Same follows for cars, buildings etc. That being why you can filter them out, you are literally creating them in your mind till you pay attention to them. You don't NEED to know the exact specification of everything in your environment just the vague reality of it.

I guess that also explains why visual novelties are so enthralling! Something new to look it is pretty rare really.

Well that's my 15 bars of lithium-hydrate! :stoned::mushroom2:


--------------------
We ultimately live in a fractal universe, all parts reflect the infinity of the whole. So why do we maintain that time be any different?

Welcome to 4 my dimensional thoughts!

(Turkish Delight is neither Turkish, nor delightful. So where's the name from?!)


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: PsilocinSam]
    #3915172 - 03/14/05 05:59 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

yes you internalize the external
then the image of the external
becomes internal, and interconnected to it are many mental notes on the object which have been internalized to prove true
in turn making the interpretation process much less demanding on the system


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3915605 - 03/14/05 11:05 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

to make hires from low res several things go on
1) low res feeds from the eye reach the brain with arrays of color blobs up to every ~1/200th second or as slowly as 1/4 second.
2) the eye is constantly quivering and sending shifted blob clusters.
3) the brain can compose a near film quality partial image every 1/20th of a second, with ragged color blobs outside of the center of attention slowly congealing to clarity (~1 or 2 seconds for full field cinemascope of still images)
4) the brain also connects 3-d connections with what it is picking up.
5) if you watch a car drive by and look at the wheels you can see the limit of processing - the front of the car and the wheels seem broken up into fragmentary vision elements, while the unchanging parts are apparently seamless (as a construct in the visual cortex)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3915890 - 03/14/05 01:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

our eyes like the glass of a mirror, instead of reflecting, like the layer behind the glass in the mirror does, the brain behind our eyes, intemperate reality..


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: BoneMan]
    #3915941 - 03/14/05 01:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

do you think there are other wavelengths that another life form would be able to see? colors we couldnt ever imagine?? i dont think so. colors of light are similar notes of sound




Of course other life forms can see different wavelengths - insects for one see plenty of ultra violet that we as humans cannot.

Similarly sound - there are a whole host of frequencies that we humans cannot hear, yet other animals can - bats for one.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: visual expression of the brain [Re: CJay]
    #3915955 - 03/14/05 01:15 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

you betcha for sure.


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