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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Gypsum, Malt Extract, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain

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Offlinekilgore_trout
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mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek
    #3904058 - 03/11/05 06:53 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

in teonanacatl's malt agar recipe there is a note about varying the malt concentration to promote fruiting from agar.

Original recipe
1 liter water
15 grams malt
25 grams agar

it stated that normal mexicana carpophores were attained in a medium with a .5% malt concentration whereas cubensis liked 1.5%. By weight, assuming one gram per cubic centimeter of water, thats 5 grams per liter for mexicana and 15 grams per liter for cubensis.

Would this then be the best concentration for mexicana all around? i dont know what people usually use. This seems like it could be a part of a mexicana agar fruiting tek.

What do you all think? What is your experience? And please contribute medium recipes that you have had success with, fruiting or not as i plan to start cultures soon.--kil


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #3904309 - 03/11/05 08:07 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I just use the agar from fungi.com but mix it up a bit weaker than called for in the recipe. I also add a pinch or two of gypsum to the litre of agar, and this seems to help fruiting. A bit of gypsum in jars helps invitro fruits to form also by the way. My experience with mexicana is it's all about strain isolation. Some substrains just won't make sclerotia, and others won't fruit. By growing out on agar you can find the best substrains. The chunk of sclerotia below was sliced into three pieces and each one was transferred to a new dish. These were grown out and transferred to grains as the fruiting strain. The best sclerotia producers were likewise selected and grown out on rye grain, which in my experience is superior to rye grass seed for sclerotia production.
RR



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Edited by RogerRabbit (03/11/05 08:08 PM)


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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3904625 - 03/11/05 09:36 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

how does gypsum help mexicana and general invitro fruiting? i thought it was just used to keep materiels from clumping.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #3904677 - 03/11/05 09:59 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not sure of the actual processes involved. Perhaps something to do with calcium aiding fruiting, but that's really just a guess. I've lately found a bit better performance all around with gypsum, and for some reason fruitbodies are more likely to form on agar when a pinch of gypsum is used. It's also very effective as you mention to keep grains from clumping up.


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InvisibleOlgualion
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: kilgore_trout]
    #3905151 - 03/12/05 12:19 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Excellent!!

I can't find the reference now, but I believe either tmc or ggmm has that same info. I think it also says that (if my memory serves me correctly) 4% is best for sclerotia production.

Good Luck!!!

RogerRabbit,
That is awesome!!! Did you make the gypsum discovery by chance? Has it worked for any strain other than jalisco?


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Offlinekilgore_trout
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: Olgualion]
    #3906022 - 03/12/05 09:13 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

i believe ive read of similar supplementation, among other chems, but never "gypsum" but rather pure lab chems added in fractions of a gram per liter.


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InvisibleIntelligentMind
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3910029 - 03/13/05 02:09 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

now is gypsum added to rye for example prior to sterilization? The same with using it on straw to fruit pan strains? Always prior?


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Offlineliveby
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: IntelligentMind]
    #3910081 - 03/13/05 02:32 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

that pics a mean mother fucker , but kool non the less mad discovery


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: liveby]
    #3911096 - 03/13/05 01:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, I add the gypsum to everything prior to sterilization. For quart jars of grains or liters of agar, the very un-scientific method of using a pinch between your thumb and forefinger is the right amount.


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3911139 - 03/13/05 01:26 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Roger, did you run any trials between jars with and those without gypsum?

I used to add gypsum to spawn jars in the past, but 2 years ago I ceased and didn't notice any differences. I wonder if there has any research been done on the colonization times.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: Anno]
    #3911155 - 03/13/05 01:32 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think it is going to aid in colonization time. I haven't noticed any. It definitely makes jars easier to shake up when you bring them out of the PC though.

That's a good point about side by side tests. I'm making a series of instructional videos, so maybe I'll do a batch of grain where half the jars have gypsum, and the other half don't. I'll film the actual opening of the PC and how loose or tight the grains in the jars are.


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3911179 - 03/13/05 01:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cool, thank you!


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Offlinepelon
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3943869 - 03/20/05 02:01 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I just use the agar from fungi.com but mix it up a bit weaker than called for in the recipe. I also add a pinch or two of gypsum to the litre of agar, and this seems to help fruiting...







Hey Roger, I have a few questions if you pleas.

1)Is this the premixed MEA from fungi.com?
2)If so or if not can you tell us your exact mixture for mexicana that you used here?

I can't find a good basic mexicana agar recipe anywhere and my plate is growing soooo slooowww. I am hoping to speed it up a bit with a better agar recipe.

Thanks and keep up the awsome work.


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Offlinepelon
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Re: mexicana agar recipe and fruiting tek [Re: liveby]
    #3943965 - 03/20/05 02:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

liveby:

Are there high res versions of those pics on the net? If so want to post links? I would love to see them large!


thanx


Edited by pelon (03/20/05 02:32 PM)


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Amazon Shop: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Gypsum, Malt Extract, Paul Stamets, Rye Grain

Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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