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Offlineegghead1
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Helping Others Develop
    #3897263 - 03/10/05 01:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

If we want to help others eliminate flaws and develop positive qualities, we have to first ensure that we ourselves are free of flaws and endowed with positive qualities. Even if we are not completely flawless, even if we have not fully revealed all of our positive qualities, we should at least have purified our mindstream enough to help others rather than simply criticize them.

That is why it is important to examine our own minds. When we have a negative thought, or even a neutral one - one that isn't particularly non-virtuous - we must try to transform it into a virtuous one. The  more we redirect the mind, the more its outer expression in speech and actions becomes virtuous. The root of all phenomena in samsara and nirvana (heaven and earth if you like) is the mind. Virtuous and  nonvirtuous states of mind are responsible for the karma that leads to suffering or happiness.

If we repeatedly examine our thoughts, words and actions, and tame our own minds, our shortcomings will begin to diminish and our positive qualities grow. The more our flaws are reduced, the more those around us will benefit. The more our positive qualities are enhanced, the more we will be capable of helping others cultivate those qualities themselves........ :heart:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3897456 - 03/10/05 01:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"..helping others, help your selves."
-Unknown :P


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3897482 - 03/10/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

being consistent is much more important that being perfect
being consistently good is even better.

but what flaws are you jabbering about.

having a mole is not like being broken china


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3897757 - 03/10/05 02:57 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You can be consistantly agressive, consistantly brave, consistantly lazy, consistanly stupid, cositantly kind, it all depends on what you habits you develop. Flaws are our negative habits and attitudes that we perpetuate and accumilate that harm oursleves and others. Its good  if we can recognize our mistakes and change our actions accordingly, to benefit one and all.

Human existence is very rare, for human beings are far less numerous than other beings. Further, although many countries are populated by hundreds of millions of human beings, how many of those people are actively pursuing a path of virtue and benefit for others through their thoughts, words and actions? How many are trying to avoid harming others and acting in nonvirtuous ways? The number of such people can be likened to the number of stars one can see in the daytime - very few indeed...... :heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3897778 - 03/10/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

yes
so we fix those yucky stuffs in ourselves (constantly) and become a model and behave consistently

we don't really fix them in other people.

they pick it up by resonance
monkey see monkey do
that sort of thing.

I am not sure it helps to think of the bad habits as flaws.
usually stuff is ok if the 3 yucky roots are spotted and managed.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3897824 - 03/10/05 03:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes :thumbup:

They are flaws becuase we have to recognize and manage them in order to prevent our actions bringing harm to oursleves and others. If people have that quality of seeking virtue for the benefit of themselevs and others, even though they may not be flawless, their motivation and personal commitment make them very special. How could we not see that commitment as the best of all qualities? We mustn't ignore it and focus instead on more temporary and personal shortcomings...... :heart:


Edited by egghead1 (03/10/05 03:22 PM)


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3899421 - 03/10/05 08:36 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

egghead1 said:
When we have a negative thought, or even a neutral one - one that isn't particularly non-virtuous - we must try to transform it into a virtuous one.




I disagree, We must accept and learn from our negative thoughts. We are not now nor will we ever be perfect and virtuous. Our negative thoughts are part of us and should be examined and understood. It is in the understanding of these thoughts that we gain wisdom!

We must learn to accept our selves with all the flaws. To love our selves unconditionally and learn from our personal lives.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: Cyber]
    #3901419 - 03/11/05 09:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

'Virtuous and nonvirtuous states of mind are responsible for the karma that leads to suffering or happiness.'

When the light of unconditional love shines through all of our thoughts, feelings and actions, then naturally our weeds of negativity die to fertilize the soil of our spiritual practice. If we can do that, thats excellent. If not, then examination and transformation of negativity into positivity is the next best thing, this sows the seeds of future happiness and lessens our harmful negative habits and attitudes which lead us to suffer. When negativity is closly examined, it naturally transforms into its positive counterpart.

If we want complete enlightenment, then its essential to dedicate any positive karma created by our actions of body, speech and mind to the benefit of all beings without exception, this creates the causes within our mindstream for future enlightenement.......... :heart:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (03/11/05 11:30 AM)


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3901455 - 03/11/05 09:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"When negativity is closely examined, it naturally transforms into its positive counterpart"

yes! look at my sig, that's what it says.



So basically what you are saying is, if you want to help others develop, the only thing you can do is reduce your own personal flaws?

and so then, as redgreenvines said, the "monkey see monkey do" effect takes place and this would be the main mechanism of 'evolution'?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: exclusive58]
    #3901647 - 03/11/05 11:00 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i agree, when you look even mindedly at the product of negative roots it does seem to fade (peaceful like ghandi); whether it is an image (part of a thought sequence) smeared with hate, or a sensation suspended with desire, or a whole sequence of attitude tangled with associations and gestures of ill will.

yet the image itself has aspects free of hate, and the sensation itself can be detatched from desire, and in this way the attitude and it's gestures come untangled.

this type of detatchment is done only within the watchful self - at best we can talk about it generally, to help others see and chose their own way.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3901726 - 03/11/05 11:21 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, i think we are all in agreement, how lovely..... :heart:

but could you explain a bit more about what you mean by 'the watchful self'?  :crazy:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (03/11/05 11:34 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3901828 - 03/11/05 11:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, i think we are all in agreement, how lovely..... :wink:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3901922 - 03/11/05 12:12 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You can be consistantly agressive, consistantly brave, consistantly lazy, consistanly stupid, cositantly kind...

At least misspell "consistantly" consistently instead of using three different misspellings.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: Swami]
    #3901931 - 03/11/05 12:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

:lol: :rotfl: :lol:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3901988 - 03/11/05 12:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Even if we are not completely flawless, even if we have not fully revealed all of our positive qualities, we should at least have purified our mindstream enough to help others rather than simply criticize them.

Whether or not the help-giver's mindstream is "purified" or not, the help-receiver's ego will almost ALWAYS feel under attack and take umbrage.

It is nearly impossible to help another without giving offense no matter one's motivation unless the other SPECIFICALLY ASKS for help.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3902025 - 03/11/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

egghead1 said:
Yes, i think we are all in agreement, how lovely..... :heart:

but could you explain a bit more about what you mean by 'the watchful self'?  :crazy:




this is an attitude cultivated to co-exist with life.

normally we think in terms of mental content and consider it is one thing after another.
we are happy thinking that only one thing is allowed to take the stage or the screen - (except for the slow fading stack of screens or pages of the book of life as many experience on entheogen - oh my, how shocking!).

but the one thing at a time is aggregate naturally. the body sense skanda is feeding data at the same time as the eye sense skanda, and auditory etc.

we are aware of the mixing of these into gestalt moments, and can accept that memory of experience is combinations of multiple skandas for any moment. (so more than one citta contemporaneously? yes)

we don't like to think of the self as more than one performer at a time, but often it is the case, even without entheogen to delay the fading of the previous "page".

we can proceed with conflicted emotions and we do hard ballancing acts - so we know a part of us can be other than another part of us.
(i am of two minds in this)

to answer your question, we cultivate a wachful attitude, one with detatchment, compassionate, relaxed, and then we are interrupted.

So we begin again - the meditation routine... and are interrupted again. no problem...

we can get quite good at it and at allowing distraction to be what it is - recovery of the seat, & letting go to what arizes.

we can co-exist the watcher this way.
glancing and seeing, not controling.

it becomes part of the overal character, yet a flexing attitude set, one that can combines with the others transparently. co-enriching.

meditation is a good habit.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: Swami]
    #3903074 - 03/11/05 03:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Teaching by example is the most helpful and beneficial becuase if someone see's that you are happy and peacful under all and any circumstance they will naturally ask questions like "How do i get what you have".

If you can embody a way of life that is free from attachment and aversion, naturally people will want to follow you. How do you think the Buddha had thousands of students? They saw in him what they wanted to attain themselves and so asked him for teachings.


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: egghead1]
    #3903288 - 03/11/05 04:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

when they call in need - you listen and share consistently
this is the example - it is unusual to not defer to someone else

they learn from experiencing the consistency of "selfless" assistance.
they learn from seeing this in action.
some even learn from just hearing about it.

asking about techniques is something else, like have you got a secret for me about heart meditation - etc.? most won't get there and can't be coerced.

most make real progress by mental wormholes, inverted constructs and it really does not matter how they manage but they do live full lives with the strangest of beliefs.


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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: Swami]
    #3903340 - 03/11/05 04:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
You can be consistantly agressive, consistantly brave, consistantly lazy, consistanly stupid, cositantly kind...

At least misspell "consistantly" consistently instead of using three different misspellings.




:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Helping Others Develop [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3903475 - 03/11/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Im not so sure about the mental wormholes :lol: but yes, very nice.  :sun:


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