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OfflinePed
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Mind & Brain
    #3896178 - 03/10/05 02:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Today, I picked up a copy of the March 2005 National Geographic magazine. I couldn't resist it: on the cover is a picture of a monk with electrodes all over his head. Inside the magazine, next to another picture of the monk, are the words:

THE MIND IS WHAT THE BRAIN DOES.

I found this somewhat disappointing: the notion that the mind, something so clear and boundless and pure, could simply be the result of electrochemical reactions encased in a hard calcium shell. This view seems to put a very short ceiling on existential possibilities. It's like suggesting that a computer's operating system originated and is contained within it's ciruitry.

Lately, I've been thinking more like this:

THE BRAIN IS WHAT THE MIND DOES.

By this I mean that the brain functions to sustain the mind more than it does to create it like magic. Suppose that the universe itself has it's own all-pervasive conciousness. Now suppose that the way that conciousness is actualized is through increasingly complex systems. From this point of view, the human brain acts like a condenser. It has enough gravity to concentrate a pre-existing cosmic conciousness into an actualized form with something new called self-awareness.

What do you think?

Link

PS-- I haven't read the magazine yet.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3896361 - 03/10/05 03:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Electric Monks huh....?  :lol:    Crazy, the stuff we see around here....  :shake:  Does reality make it real...?

Clicky Clicky....:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3754451#Post3754451


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3896956 - 03/10/05 11:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

From this point of view, the human brain acts like a condenser. It has enough gravity to concentrate a pre-existing cosmic conciousness into an actualized form with something new called self-awareness.

This is what I've thought for a few years now. Consciousness exists independent of the brain but the brain acts as a focuser, a magnifyer, or in some way at the same time, a limiter of it. Thus when we take psychoactive substances they disrupt the functioning of the brain in one way or another, but often decreasing the limiter function.


Edited by moog (03/10/05 12:15 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: moog]
    #3897031 - 03/10/05 12:03 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I suspect there is much more than brain, but I can certainly model the entirety of what I have seen of mind in action in the material of the brain - not the entirety of sensory signal types, and certainly not the magnificence of ongoing creation - well here is the simplified model:

---1----
signals go in vibrating
interference takes place
peak energy from interference triggers association (recall) of simmilar vibrating patterns. (engrams -> triggers recall)


---2----
at a threashold of resonance the vibrating signal is fixed into memory as a new pattern that can be recalled by interference peaks that match closely. (resonance -> formation of engrams)

so we have an engram abstraction and association engine for complex signals and a lovely expressive body controller.

then,
---3----
ingeniously, moog you're gonna love this, we have a polyrhithmic programmable multi timer - the cerebellum - with which we can tune up almost any rythm or sequence or time duration.

we use it a lot to co-ordinate patterned behaviour, and even use it to manage expectation while dealing with the world.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3897151 - 03/10/05 12:40 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The mind is the soul acting thru the brain.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: niteowl]
    #3897217 - 03/10/05 01:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

THE MIND IS WHAT THE BRAIN DOES. and..
THE BRAIN IS WHAT THE MIND DOES.


think of moving your finger ( not doing it)
then think of moving your finger (doing it)


... mind and brain..

:wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Gomp]
    #3897465 - 03/10/05 01:53 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

brain is both an organ and a complicated electrical device.
mind relates to consciousness, which has found its seat in this brain device.

you can play back your finger move on your mindscreen or through the body, but both involve brain.

I don't see a point in which any separation between brain and mind is required except at death, which may not be what we think it is.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3897485 - 03/10/05 01:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

the body in your dreams, having "your 'real' body" layed asleep in bed,
got it no brain? :P hehe


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Gomp]
    #3897621 - 03/10/05 02:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

that body has nice tits


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3898376 - 03/10/05 05:26 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

THE MIND IS WHAT THE BRAIN DOES.

I found this somewhat disappointing:
Your emotional reaction has no bearing on the truth of this statement.

the notion that the mind, something so clear and boundless and pure,

Clear?

Boundless?

Pure?

could simply be the result of electrochemical reactions encased in a hard calcium shell.
There is nothing simple about the brain.

This view seems to put a very short ceiling on existential possibilities.
This "view" does nothing to alter reality one way or the other.

It's like suggesting that a computer's operating system originated and is contained within it's ciruitry.
An Operating System certainly lies within it's circuitry. See how much RAM you are using just to boot up. A brain and a computer have some functional similarities, but structurally have almost nothing in common.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Swami]
    #3898810 - 03/10/05 06:44 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

computer as brain, where is mind?

then ask, who/what made the computer... (I'm not implying anything BTW, I'm just messing around with word combinations) :P


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Gomp]
    #3900022 - 03/10/05 10:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

the mind is what the brain does

catchy title, also true, yet

we dont know what the brain does


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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3900054 - 03/10/05 10:55 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

The mind is simply the tool of our consciousness. It seems to be pure consciousness that you're semantically confusing with the mind.



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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3900336 - 03/11/05 12:02 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

our conciousness is a function of our mind


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OfflinePed
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: fresh313]
    #3901454 - 03/11/05 09:54 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>> Your emotional reaction has no bearing on the truth of this statement.

Why is it necessary to point this out?


>> There is nothing simple about the brain.

The brain is simple in that it is explainable in terms that already exist. We understand the basics of it's function in relationship with our understanding of other phenomena. In this way, although the brain is much more complex, it is not out of the same league as a leaf or a worm. The brain is something ordinary, whereas the mind is something extraordinary, from my point of view. The statement "The mind is what the brain does" makes the mind into something ordinary. That's why it was disappointing for me to read.


>> This "view" does nothing to alter reality one way or the other.

Certain views limit our scope of reality.


>> An Operating System certainly lies within it's circuitry. See how much RAM you are using just to boot up.

An operating system and computer ciruitry are not intrinsic to eachother, though. The title of the article suggests that the mind and the brain are instrinsic to eachother.


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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3901543 - 03/11/05 10:37 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

different kinds of thinking leads to different kinds of understanding.

exclusive thinking permits excellent conjecture and analogy but it may collapse into rejection by "toe stubbing" upon some piece that is ill conjected.

attitude:the exclusive thinker is poised to battle, the next idea is the next enemy, the mind must not succumb. at the first provocation -"en garde, you mother was a slut!"

the goal of exclusive thinkers is the holy grail, something that the universe will be eternally grateful for this shining knight having found and kept as his own.

inclusive thinking allows turbulent conflict of some images but ends up resolving most of these as out of bounds (belonging to other macro or micro zones of integrity) instead of seeking error it seeks sustained pattern.

attitude:the inclusive thinker is poised to release all prisoners, all can be admitted as none are retained.

the goal of inclusive thinkers is the holy grid, something that the universe exposes and all rely on. (AKA - the tree of life)

in between, I am constantly in search of the holy grill for the perfect burger and the holy girl who will make me.


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Offlineergot
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3901850 - 03/11/05 11:58 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
Today, I picked up a copy of the March 2005 National Geographic magazine.  I couldn't resist it:  on the cover is a picture of a monk with electrodes all over his head.  Inside the magazine, next to another picture of the monk, are the words:

THE MIND IS WHAT THE BRAIN DOES.

I found this somewhat disappointing: the notion that the mind, something so clear and boundless and pure, could simply be the result of electrochemical reactions encased in a hard calcium shell.  This view seems to put a very short ceiling on existential possibilities.  It's like suggesting that a computer's operating system originated and is contained within it's ciruitry. 

Lately, I've been thinking more like this:

THE BRAIN IS WHAT THE MIND DOES.

By this I mean that the brain functions to sustain the mind more than it does to create it like magic.  Suppose that the universe itself has it's own all-pervasive conciousness.  Now suppose that the way that conciousness is actualized is through increasingly complex systems.  From this point of view, the human brain acts like a condenser.  It has enough gravity to concentrate a pre-existing cosmic conciousness into an actualized form with something new called self-awareness.

What do you think?

Link

PS-- I haven't read the magazine yet.




Well, sorry the facts don't fulfill your desires to have mind be something special. :rolleyes:

I advise you to read "Consciousness Explained" by Daniel C. Dennett...


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Ped]
    #3901959 - 03/11/05 12:18 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>> Your emotional reaction has no bearing on the truth of this statement.

Why is it necessary to point this out?
We could use this unnecessary question after each and every line ever written here.  :wink:
Truth requires nothing from us except acceptance. This is the heart of Zen.

The title of the article suggests that the mind and the brain are instrinsic to eachother.
This is self-evident unless you can give a concrete example of mind without a brain.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Swami]
    #3902059 - 03/11/05 12:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

so adroit!

but do explore more
for gaia - maybe there is more than one brain to make one gaia mind
hard to point a mental finger at the substance of that though.
hmmm.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Mind & Brain [Re: Swami]
    #3902089 - 03/11/05 12:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

>> Well, sorry the facts don't fulfill your desires to have mind be something special

"The Facts", eh? What was that thing that Osho said? I thought I saw it in someone's signature..


>> This is self-evident

This is like saying it's obvious that apples and oranges are instrinsic to eachother because you see them in the same bin at the grocery store every time you go. Outside of that context, the reality about apples and oranges is entirely different. In another context, the reality about the mind and the brain might be quite different from what is conventionally understood. Be careful not to assume objectivity of convention.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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