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Offlinesnoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 5 years, 10 months
Social Security Reform
    #3895211 - 03/09/05 11:23 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

What are y'alls opinions on the social security reform ideas? Do you support the private accounts and changes proposed by the right? Or the left's ideas of leaving things the way they are with the federal government running things?


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #3895284 - 03/09/05 11:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

It's going to be a painful transition, but ultimately, I support freedom of choice, and don't have faith in the future of SS. I was actually just reading this policy paper from the Cato Institute before I clicked this thread.


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Offlinecb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Silversoul]
    #3895350 - 03/09/05 11:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

From what I've read Bush's supposed privatization is far from it.


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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: cb9fl]
    #3895387 - 03/10/05 12:01 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Well, Bush's plan is far from full privatization. I think there are only a few private accounts you're allowed to invest in, which is a bit unfair to the market, which thrives on competition. And also, it's only part of your social security money that you're allowed to invest.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #3895703 - 03/10/05 12:59 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Bush's plan is expensive and stupid.

The Democrats are pretending there is no problem.

Both sides are flat-out wrong.


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Offlinephi1618
old hand

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 4,102
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3896671 - 03/10/05 08:43 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Bush's plan is expensive and stupid.

The Democrats are pretending there is no problem.

Both sides are flat-out wrong.




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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Happy Mutant

Registered: 05/17/03
Posts: 94,280
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3896838 - 03/10/05 10:37 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Bush's plan is expensive and stupid.

The Democrats are pretending there is no problem.

Both sides are flat-out wrong.




My thoughts exactly, especially concerning Bush's plan. I just don't see the logic of taking money out of a program in order to "save" it....


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #3896863 - 03/10/05 10:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i'm 100% in favor of privatizing social security. Social security doesn't make shit for money (hovers around a 2-3% or so in interest). You basically don't make shit the way it is now adjusted for inflation which is about the same percentage wise.. There are low risk bonds that are just as safe/risky (social security is NOT 100% guarenteed) that will bring you 4-5% minimum.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleDieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 28,165
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: snoopaloop53]
    #3896995 - 03/10/05 11:31 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

My idea of a saftey net is a cot and 3 bowls of soup a day.  :hellfire:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: DieCommie]
    #3897000 - 03/10/05 11:32 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

No soup for you!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Silversoul]
    #3897109 - 03/10/05 12:25 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

nazi...


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinestarptv23
kindchicka420
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Registered: 10/10/04
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Innvertigo]
    #3898416 - 03/10/05 05:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

that policy is great for people that have the money to put into there own privatizing social security account..what about the people that dont have money and wont put money into a account for there future cus they need it now..then what will happen...so many people will have nothing for there future ...i know other countries that have this privatizing social security and most older people of in poverty...then what...more and more americans are losing there jobs and getting paod less and everything is raising in price...


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"Six words: drop out, turn on, then come back and tune it in -and then drop out again, and turn on, and tune it back in-it's a rhythm- most of us think God made this universe in nature-subject object-predicate sentences-turn on, tune in, drop out- period, end of paragraph. Turn the page- it's all a rhythm- it's all a beat. You turn on, you find it inside, and then you have to come back (since you can't stay high all the time) and you have to build a better model. But don't get caught - don't get hooked - don't get attracted by the thing you're building, cause... you gotta drop out again. It's a cycle. Turn on, tune in, drop out. Keep it going, keep it going- the nervous system works that way. gotta keep it flowing- keep it flowing.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: starptv23]
    #3898524 - 03/10/05 05:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Social security taxes weigh heavier on the worker than just about any other tax. Not to mention that they affect the employer, reducing the amount they can afford to pay or the number of workers they can afford to hire. This would give workers back the amount of money that's taken from them and allow them to invest it in more profitable accounts. It seems to me that privatization would benefit the poor the most.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: starptv23]
    #3898537 - 03/10/05 05:50 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


that policy is great for people that have the money to put into there own privatizing social security account..what about the people that dont have money and wont put money into a account for there future cus they need it now..


That is not how Bush's proposed plan would work.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Silversoul]
    #3898592 - 03/10/05 05:58 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


Social security taxes weigh heavier on the worker than just about any other tax.

The younger generation will be completely boned by Social Security if it stays as it is. Not only will we pay social security payroll taxes, we will also pay the federal income tax that will go to pay back Social Security for all of the money that was looted out of it. It will be like being double taxed. Also, we will not get the full benefits of Social Security because there won't be enough money. Our generation(early 20's) is going to get absolutely screwed over.


It seems to me that privatization would benefit the poor the most.

Smart privatization might work. Bush's plan isn't smart because it relies on borrowing yet more money.

I think we should just raise the taxable income for Social Security(right now you only pay Social Security taxes on the first 80 some thousand that you make). If we were to raise the tax ceiling on payroll taxes, we could finance private accounts.


Edited by RandalFlagg (03/10/05 05:59 PM)


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
Posts: 1,742
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3899145 - 03/10/05 07:43 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah the ceiling on SS is fucked up. Bill Gates pays like 0.01% (just a random guess) of his income to SS and still gets to collect like every other poor person who pays 12%.

I personally think SS should be completely dismantled and merged with welfare because that is what it has become anyways. Our money isn't sitting somewhere collecting interest, it has become part of the government funds just like our taxes that go to welfare. It is basically welfare part II for old people but the tax just has its own special category. Taxes would simply be raised across the board and I think we would end up paying less, giving us the ability to not only set up private accounts but to also do whatever the hell we want with that money and still have a saftey net.

I think we could save tons of money by simply expanding welfare to the old and abolishing SS...but of course my opinion usually draws obscenities and even threats of violence when I try to debate with any liberals. Sadly, I think it really comes down to the fact that old people just don't want to be on "welfare" simply because of the stigma of the word.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Catalysis]
    #3899657 - 03/10/05 09:20 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
I think we could save tons of money by simply expanding welfare to the old and abolishing SS...but of course my opinion usually draws obscenities and even threats of violence when I try to debate with any liberals. Sadly, I think it really comes down to the fact that old people just don't want to be on "welfare" simply because of the stigma of the word.




You have nailed this perfectly. Limit it just to the old who need it. I don't care how they feel about welfare, if they've been counting on soc sec to provide for them they've probably been on welfare before.
I'm almost 50. If you promise not to steal any more of my money than you can fucking keep what you've already ripped off. Leave my kids money alone too.

You're complaint about income ceiling is, however, yet another not even thinly veiled fuck the rich tax. Anybody who pays the max soc sec tax is already getting fucked in biblical proportions as it is. Do not ever think that taxing rich people is a limitless resource to pay for entitlements. You may think socialist Europe is a fine model but the shit is about to hit the fan there in such a manner as to make our little soc sec problem look like a flea bite.

By the way, the best way to tell that you're on to something good is when the barking moonbats scream loudest.


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OfflineSWEDEN
Miracle of Science

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3899748 - 03/10/05 09:44 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)



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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Social Security Reform [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3899845 - 03/10/05 10:04 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

You're complaint about income ceiling is, however, yet another not even thinly veiled fuck the rich tax.




No, im not going that far. I shouldn't have used such an extreme example. I agree that the "rich" are getting fucked on social security as well but my statement is more easily related to by the more liberal minded. Just eliminate SS, raise taxes proportionate to income to expand welfare and i think everyone could be legitimately satisfied.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Social Security Reform [Re: Catalysis]
    #3899880 - 03/10/05 10:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)


I think we could save tons of money by simply expanding welfare to the old and abolishing SS...but of course my opinion usually draws obscenities and even threats of violence when I try to debate with any liberals.

I am currently enraged at the old people's lobby. They don't seem to give a fuck that all of the stuff that they want for free is going to bankrupt the younger generations.


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