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OfflineWhiPsTiCkAgOsToP
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Mazatec trip report?
    #3894492 - 03/09/05 09:14 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I was curious as to what a trip report would be like through the eyes of the Mazatec natives... seeing that their culture is quite different that that of our "modernized" world.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: WhiPsTiCkAgOsToP]
    #3894505 - 03/09/05 09:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I would imagine that they wouldn't write trip reports. Imbibing the sacred mushrooms is as much a part of their culture as cars are to us. Imagine writing a report about your experience driving a car...each time you drove it. It would be senseless.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: dblaney]
    #3894539 - 03/09/05 09:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Yes, but to the same end, many people write reviews of cars, especially ones that they have personally owned or driven. I don't think it'd be that outlandish to think that there might be some account of the experience, be it an experience of partaking in a sacred ritual, or an observance of someone else doing it.

Think of Blogs, or written journals, or biographies.. surely they'd contain at least one account of driving a car?

Then again, I know nothing of the culture, and writing something like that might well be unlikely.


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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OfflineWhiPsTiCkAgOsToP
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #3894851 - 03/09/05 10:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I understand your point, but surely there must be some record of use. How else would we know they used it?


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: WhiPsTiCkAgOsToP]
    #3894853 - 03/09/05 10:16 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Gordon Wasson


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: WhiPsTiCkAgOsToP]
    #3896964 - 03/10/05 11:23 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I would imagine something similar to this  :tongue2:


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OfflineKerr
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: namaste]
    #3896974 - 03/10/05 11:26 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Good read, thank you :smile:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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Offlinenamaste
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: Kerr]
    #3898385 - 03/10/05 05:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

nO prob, there's another story by the same author and two or three more that go more into "the birds" on that site


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: dblaney]
    #3898711 - 03/10/05 06:22 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Interestiongly, the Mazatecs never talked about their shroom experiences which were for the divination rituals of a velada. They sought the shaman, brujo, curandero, sabio, etc for illness or for finding lost objects.

They never took them to find God.

Maria Sabina, like most mazatecs also never used P. cubensis because of its association with manure.

They already had a few dozen magic shrooms before the Spanish ever arrived with cattle int he new world.

Since you brought this subject up, I will post a paper in a few days by Enice Pike and Florence Cowan about their experiences with mazatecs who used shrooms and the missionaires who taught them about Jesus and how they incorporated christian elements into mazatec witrchcraft.

But that will be in a few days if someone reminds me.

I am currently busy working on the species section of my field guide.

have a shroomy day,

mj

And they did not take the mushrooms to trip.


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OfflineDrink_Punk_Soda
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3898943 - 03/10/05 07:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

And they did not take the mushrooms to trip.




For some reason that statement made me grin. :smirk:

Actually, I'd be pretty interested in reading that article, if you do get around to putting it up.


--------------------

Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah...


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OfflineKerr
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3899410 - 03/10/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

P. mexicana if I am not mistaken was the particular species that was used by the Mazatecs :smile:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: Kerr]
    #3904660 - 03/11/05 09:54 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

It was P. caerulescens which R. Gordon Wasson and Alan Richardson first consumed with Maria Sabina. P. mexicana Heim is the prefered species for mazatecs, however, the Indians of Oaxaca utilize more than 3 dozen species of psilocybian fungi ceremoniously.

Different shrooms are also used for different illnesses or ocassions. And it also depends on what is available at the time of divination.

Here are some photos from my library of some of the shrooms collected by R. Gordon Wasson in Oaxaca in the mid 1950s

the images are from three different ocassions.



a larger image on another day of collecting from the roads adjacent to the sugar cane fields in Huautla de Jimenez, Oaxaca.



and unfortunately, I had this orginal image and lost the picture in the layuot pages for one of my books which disappeared about 6 years ago or was stolen.

I suppose i can take the computer one to a photo studio on a disc and replace it.

It is a pictuee of R. Gordon Wasson and Dr. Rolf Singer with a nice collection of P. caerulescens, the mushrooms in the above two photos and one below.



Anyway, tomorrow I will try to scan the pages of an article by the Wycliff Bible translator Missionaries Eunice Pike and Florence Cowan who lived among the Mazatecs for many years. They wrote on Mazatec impurity sex and mushrooms. They were one of the three people who brought to the Wassons, the word of the mushrooms. The other two were R. E. Schultes and Wasson's Publisher friend in Europe who told hm about the possibility of a shroom cult in Mexico.

mj


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OfflineKerr
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3904696 - 03/11/05 10:04 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the info mj :smile:


--------------------
"Easy going and organic thoughts bent on self experimentation and knowledge and growth for the betterment of self and those around us"
-Playdo the philosophiser


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InvisibleTHE KRAT BARON
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3904885 - 03/11/05 10:53 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Didn't the shamans of some indigenous cultures draw pictures depicting their psychedelic/spiritual experiences?


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m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: THE KRAT BARON]
    #3905793 - 03/12/05 05:25 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

bump


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: Drink_Punk_Soda]
    #3908134 - 03/12/05 06:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Hi Drink_Punk_Soda,

here is the URL for the article Mushroom Ritual vs. Christianity. I posted it i nthye Siprituality and Philosolphy forum.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3908121/an/0/page/0

mj, enjoy the read.


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Offlineivi
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Re: Mazatec trip report? [Re: WhiPsTiCkAgOsToP]
    #3908226 - 03/12/05 06:47 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

WhiPsTiCkAgOsToP said:
I was curious as to what a trip report would be like through the eyes of the Mazatec natives... seeing that their culture is quite different that that of our "modernized" world.




You can listen to a Mazatec indian mushroom ceremony though.

This recording was made by Robert Gordon Wasson back in 1956. The singing lady is no other but Maria Sabina.

Clicky

You can buy the record from Folkways Records.

Enjoy



--------------------


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