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Offlineseethe303
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A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal
    #3892026 - 03/09/05 11:40 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Both the Bankruptcy Reform Act and The Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act may sound like a good ideas from their titles, but their effect would be to stop constitutionally protected speech on the Internet and in print, and there are several other very disturbing aspects.

The BANKRUPTCY REFORM ACT, H.R. 833, is in House/Senate conference and the closest to passing. It passed the House intact (as a bankruptcy reform measure), but passed the Senate with the full text of Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act (see below) attached as a "rider", Title XVII.
The Methamphetamine Anti-Proliferation Act also remains in circulation as a stand-alone bill. H.R. 2987.

Some of the provisions H.R. 833 Title XVII/H.R. 2987 that EFF objects to:

* Makes it illegal to share information about harm reduction and growing hemp even for industrial purposes. Not only does it criminalize speech, it makes it illegal to even LINK TO sites with these types of articles and gives the government power to order Web sites censored and shut down without due process of law. It gives the DEA and the FBI the right to order ISPs to close down a site without notice to the owner on a police judgement call without an order from a court. This provision violates the First, Fourth and Fifths Amendments (free speech, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure, due process).
* H.R. 833 and H.R. 2987 will allow secret searches. This provision was beaten down before but is trying to come in through the back door again. The government could enter your home or office with a warrant, search or copy files from your computer and not tell you till months later. Another section of this bill removes the responsibility of the government to give an inventory of what was seized as is currently required under the law. This provision also violates the Fourth Amendment.
* The bill would also create new federal drug offences and incarcerate a whole new wave of low-level "drug offenders", this time for merely expressing themselves. This is a major threat to the First Amendment and American democracy in general.

There is a broad coalition of organizations and people opposing both H.R. 833 Title





LINK

this is scary stuff.


Edited by seethe303 (03/09/05 11:41 AM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: seethe303]
    #3892083 - 03/09/05 11:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.eff.org/effector/HTML/effect13.05.html#I


This article is 4 years old.


I'd like to know what happened though.

Apparently it didn't pass.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Registered: 09/24/04
Posts: 12,326
Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3892126 - 03/09/05 12:00 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe those jackasses in Congress forgot about that one little thing.... what was it called?.... oh yeah! Free Speech!


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3892232 - 03/09/05 12:27 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
http://www.eff.org/effector/HTML/effect13.05.html#I


This article is 4 years old.


I'd like to know what happened though.

Apparently it didn't pass.




actually it did pass in 2000.. clinton vetoed it..possibly because of the rider...however..it is about to pass now (link)...i couldnt find the anti-drug-information provision in the new version of the bill...but i might easily have missed it...but even if it has been removed..the non-drug portion of the bill is among the most sadistic ever drafted *and* further chips away at judicial discretion...i agree that the system is being abused..but the new law makes getting hit by a bus an irresponsible use of a credit card!!...this leaves little room for doubt that republicans are social sadists...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (03/09/05 12:34 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3892259 - 03/09/05 12:36 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Welcome to America, Land of the free?

We report... you decide :lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3892464 - 03/09/05 01:28 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

but the new law makes getting hit by a bus an irresponsible use of a credit card!!


Wha?


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3893676 - 03/09/05 06:53 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
but the new law makes getting hit by a bus an irresponsible use of a credit card!!


Wha?




Yeah... huh?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3893766 - 03/09/05 07:13 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
but the new law makes getting hit by a bus an irresponsible use of a credit card!!


Wha?



Do you know how many times I've said that in response to something Anna said?


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3893885 - 03/09/05 07:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The anti-drug provision is not on the new bill. However, the dems are trying to tack on a $2.50 raise in minimum wage. This sucks because I am for increasing minimum wage but they proposed an outrageous number because they knew it would never pass. It was a political ploy like when the Dems tried to reinstate the draft last year.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Catalysis]
    #3893940 - 03/09/05 07:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

They should legalize killing politicians.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3894224 - 03/09/05 08:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
They should legalize killing politicians.



I'll shoot the sheriff.


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Offlinetomk
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Registered: 09/22/04
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Silversoul]
    #3894339 - 03/09/05 08:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

The senate failed to add an amendment to the bankrupcy bill that would exempt people whos financial hardship were caused by medical problems. Thats what Anna meant. The bankrupcy bill is a huge scam.

The way credit card interest rates work is like this. You pay the cost of money (around 2.5 percent) and a premium against the chance of future non-payment. So, if your interest rate is 7.5 % you are paying 5% against the chance of future non-payment. When this bankrupcy bill passes, the credit companies cash in, since they have already collected against the future non-payment from interest, and still get to collect, the money that was originally for non-payment just goes to profit. This is a huge scam and a huge fraud. That this could pass is indicitive that the rulers are either dumb or corrupt.


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"I am eternally free"


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: tomk]
    #3894640 - 03/09/05 09:38 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with you on most points but don't forget that many bankrupcies are also scams to basically steal money. Even if these companies make lots of money and can afford the loss, it is still not right. I know it sucks but you can't just borrow money and say it was a mistake so you never have to pay it back.


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Offlinetomk
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Catalysis]
    #3894817 - 03/09/05 10:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"I agree with you on most points but don't forget that many bankrupcies are also scams to basically steal money."

Well, lets look at some numbers. 90% of bankruptcies are filed following divorce, job loss, death in the family, and illness.

That leaves 10% of bankruptcies as potential for being scams to steal money. Lets look at what scams look like. They look like wealthy people putting their assets into trusts that are immune from being counted as assets for purposes of repayment. They look like Enron execs selling their houses to family members and renting them back for 1$/year. This is where the real fraud is happening, because even if numerically more PEOPLE are commiting fraud at the 1,000-10,000 dollar level, more money is fraudently manipulated by the very rich. However, the bankruptcy bill does not target these loopholes available only to those who can afford thousands of dollars for lawyers to create the shelters. Amendments designed to target this have failed, just like amendments designed to protect those with medical problems / death in the family / military service have failed. It really illustrates the priorities in the senate when an amendment to exempt medical emergencies fails, and they won't address loopholes only the obscenely wealthy can use.

Twenty years from now it could look something like this. Everyone who accumulates credit card debt is forced to pay it back at huge interest rates. An amendment to cap interest rates at 30% failed. So, a kid, age eighteen (when the centers of the brain that allow for long term thinking are underdeveloped) takes out a credit card, gets 20,000 dollars debt, and lets it grow because he is naturally irresponsible because of biological facts about his brain. His fragile brain was targeted by an advertising campaign developed by experts in 18-20 year old psychology with the hidden purpose of creating a debt trap. By the time he is 21, he owes 67,500 and must pay back 30,000 / year just to make the interest. So, he is forced into a job working at a wal-mart, which, having merged with the credit card companies, is the only available employee for people with credit as bad as his. Wal-Mart deducts the employees entire check from the debt, and loans the employee enough to survive. The employee can never escape, and retires with nothing because the private social security account he created went bankrupt because of a corrupt executive who ruined his fund and now lives in a house he rents from his mother for 10 dollars / year off of assets in a trust fund that costs 10,000 dollars to set up.

This is the vision of the country that these corporate powers want to see. When you repeat republican talking points like "lots of people steal money with bankruptcy" you are playing right into this future. The people who really rip off the system with bankruptcy scams are protected by this bill because the loopholes they exploit have been intentionally left open.


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"I am eternally free"


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: tomk]
    #3895032 - 03/09/05 10:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, i think people should be held responsible for their actions.  I agree, unforseen circumstances need to be protected but I don't buy that 90% figure.  I could afford my debt but I filed for bankrupcy when i was 22 because I just play the system.  Now at 25, im debt free and own a house, car, etc. but i legally stole that money plain and simple.  Sure I racked up a lot of debt that poor me with my fragile mind couldn't even comprehend  :rolleyes: but I knew a thing or 2 about whta I was doing.  I have several friends and co-workers who have all done the same type of thing.  One of my friends filed because he got divorced and he actually needed it but most people I know didn't need it.


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Offlinetomk
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Registered: 09/22/04
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Catalysis]
    #3895063 - 03/09/05 10:55 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"I don't buy that 90% figure."

Um. I didn't pull it out of my ass. This is the figure that all the talking heads in the debate agree upon and is pretty well researched by economists. I'll dig up a link later, but thats the figure everyone arguing about this bill is throwing around.

Besides, if you did what you said, it's an example of irresponsible lending as much as indicitive of you and your friends moral character. And, besides, the bank did not lose money lending it to you. You see, their interest rates cover those losses + profits as things stand. It's a subtle difference, but it's there.

Further, the amount of money involved in your bankruptcy is probably an accounting error no one would notice compared to what the people this bill protects gets away with.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: tomk]
    #3895100 - 03/09/05 11:03 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Um. I didn't pull it out of my ass. This is the figure that all the talking heads in the debate agree upon and is pretty well researched by economists. I'll dig up a link later, but thats the figure everyone arguing about this bill is throwing around.




Im not saying you did. My point was that I am actually included in that figure because I was unemployed and couldn't "afford" my debt. I was actually unwilling to work for less than $18/hr and decided it would be best if i filed when I was between jobs.

Quote:


Besides, if you did what you said, it's an example of irresponsible lending as much as indicitive of you and your friends moral character.




When in Rome..

Quote:

And, besides, the bank did not lose money lending it to you. You see, their interest rates cover those losses + profits as things stand. It's a subtle difference, but it's there.





That doesn't mean you can walk into Wal-mart and just steal whatever you want because they make a profit anyways. This aren't non-profit institutions created to give you free shit or generously help you buy stuff you can't afford, they are businesses.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: seethe303]
    #3895456 - 03/10/05 12:17 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

They should just make it illegal to loan or borrow money.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: A Bill to make sharing harm reduction info illegal [Re: Catalysis]
    #3895511 - 03/10/05 12:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Sorry, i think people should be held responsible for their actions.  I agree, unforseen circumstances need to be protected but I don't buy that 90% figure.  I could afford my debt but I filed for bankrupcy when i was 22 because I just play the system.  Now at 25, im debt free and own a house, car, etc. but i legally stole that money plain and simple.  Sure I racked up a lot of debt that poor me with my fragile mind couldn't even comprehend  :rolleyes: but I knew a thing or 2 about whta I was doing.  I have several friends and co-workers who have all done the same type of thing.  One of my friends filed because he got divorced and he actually needed it but most people I know didn't need it.




arent you being a hippocryte??...


--------------------


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