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OfflinePsilocinSam
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Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind
    #3885921 - 03/08/05 04:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Recently I began reading about, and learning, the practice of Zazen meditation with the hope of reach a more stable internal state.

With this I also chose to learn about the teachings of Zen Buddhism, and so the idea of the Bodhi mind.

Which leads to my question, or rather hypothesis, that Zen Buddhism, in particular Zazen meditation practices, and Psychedelia (at the higher levels ie spirituality) are both seeking the same thing, that being the Bodhi mind.

Any Buddhists, or Psychedelists with thoughts on this (people who don't grasp these ideas need not apply) please post and share you understanding of this.


--------------------
We ultimately live in a fractal universe, all parts reflect the infinity of the whole. So why do we maintain that time be any different?

Welcome to 4 my dimensional thoughts!

(Turkish Delight is neither Turkish, nor delightful. So where's the name from?!)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: PsilocinSam]
    #3886098 - 03/08/05 06:27 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> are both seeking the same thing, that being the Bodhi mind.

ZaZen is the loss of seeking. This may sound like a minor point, but it is the primary difference between the use of ZaZen and the use of psychedelics to acheive the Bodhi mind.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: Seuss]
    #3886104 - 03/08/05 06:32 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yes  :thumbup:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: egghead1]
    #3886121 - 03/08/05 06:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the practice is essential

the instructions for getting a good glow on and keeping it nice tend to pertain to psychedelics as well (or for conducting oneself through a psych-ot-ic episode).

the reason why it is applicable is that Jhana-absorption is a naturally occuring thing outside of meditation as well as in practice. Absorptive states occur in dreams and in psychic crisis.

without the practice the references are pretty vague, however the wisdom of love, the direction towards bodhi and the motility of letting go apply at every point on the wheel of life.


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3886130 - 03/08/05 06:49 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Letting go is apllicable to all, but it has to be said that ZaZen is in no way similar to Jhana Absorption practcies, although both tend to spill over into everyday life. Psycadelic substances are only temporeraly induced states, and are in no way as effective as Cold Turkey for the mind (ZaZen) for realization of Bodhi-Mind.  Although Psycadelics can be used to temporeraly clean the slate, becuase they are mother natures natural cleansers. :heart:


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All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


Edited by egghead1 (03/08/05 07:05 AM)


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OfflinePsilocinSam
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: Seuss]
    #3886166 - 03/08/05 07:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

True the nature of Zazen and all meditation really is not to seek, but to let go.

Really the problem is semantic, although I can see that my underlying thought process has always been towards a seeking of self. Perhaps this is one of my main barriers to self awareness.

However I used the word simply to convey that both have parrallel paths, rather than to suggest that I would be actively seeking per say.  :smile:


--------------------
We ultimately live in a fractal universe, all parts reflect the infinity of the whole. So why do we maintain that time be any different?

Welcome to 4 my dimensional thoughts!

(Turkish Delight is neither Turkish, nor delightful. So where's the name from?!)


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: PsilocinSam]
    #3886281 - 03/08/05 08:34 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

magazine: www.tricycle.com issue ('95?) on buddhism & psychedelics

book: zigzag zen

& then there's alan watts :wink:







zen is a special transmission (of buddha-mind), outside the scriptures...
(as in mahakapsya & lord buddha's flower sermon, no?)


~
* gnrmi enters roshi's room from hall, bows, pours 2 cups of hot tea, picks up fan & waves at cups, drains his cup, bows to roshi & departs sesshin room to meditate near rock garden *
ymmv...

:heart:


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: gnrm23]
    #3886425 - 03/08/05 10:22 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the difference relates to awakening
you need to intend to awaken and work towards that
the glimpses from entheogen
are from the dream realm.

being awakened to the bell of change is not like clinging to the vision of awakenning in a daze.


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3903026 - 03/11/05 03:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It is always easier to find something, when you know what you are looking for.

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


--------------------
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret experience... The trick is not to fall for any of them


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #3903054 - 03/11/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

you could put it that way Quoiaien,
(usually I have no clue what i am looking for)
and I am not against entheogen - dont get me wrong:
i put it among the enjoyable pursuits.
i just don't equate it with enlightenment, or meditation
(the aspect of jhana - which is part of practice sometimes - and entheogen resonance are related - and the movement between mind states is common)


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Offlinetrinity7
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3907639 - 03/12/05 04:19 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

@PsilocinSam:
I?m with u on this one. I practised Zen for nine years ( and that is not to say that it gets better or easier. Au contraire ) and I sure like to shroom.
It?s my experience as well that those paths can be doorways to...sth nameless. Damn, it?s really hard to put it in words, but I do think it leads in the same direction. Only that this state is not really a destination or a goal, it is what has always been.
However, if it works, it?s fine with me.
Or to quote a book title`: `Enlightenment doesn?t care how you achieve it`.

BTW, are U familiar with the `Good Friday Experiment`?
It`s a study to find out if shrooms can induce authentic mystic states. And now guess what the result was... :mushroom2: :thumbup:


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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Re: Zen Buddhism, Psychedelia, and the Quest For The Bodhi Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3918198 - 03/14/05 11:05 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

We can bend at the kness, so we have a sitting practice, Zazen
We can walk, so we have a walking practice, Kinhin
We can speak, so we have a chanting practice
We can sleep and dream, and go to the bathroom so we practice that (yes monastics actually have practices for going to the bathroom),
We can alter our consciousness, so we have a tripping practice

It is all part of practice.  If one views it as such.  Thinking any method gets you there faster, is simply pulling you further away.  Thinking you know the answer, pulls you further away.  There is absolutely nothing you can do to see what the Buddha has seen.  Nothing.  Zen is simply the practice of attending to your life, as it is, right now. 

:heart:Peace:heart:

:hippie:


--------------------
There are an infinite number of ways to interpret experience... The trick is not to fall for any of them


Edited by Quoiyaien (03/14/05 11:13 PM)


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