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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Shulgin on psilocybin extraction
#3885618 - 03/08/05 12:54 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Not sure if this has been posted before or not.
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/adsarchive/extraction.htm
Things that interested me were the duration of extraction and it's coorelation to the amount of psilocin extracted. Dr S is awesome
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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Aeolus1369
Dr. Seahorse


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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3886935 - 03/08/05 11:05 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Interesting, except I found it a bit funny that he referred to the mushrooms as "plants"
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3887039 - 03/08/05 11:39 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nice article, and great site. Thanks man.
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3890114 - 03/08/05 10:49 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd really like some input on this from people with more knowledge in chemistry than myself. If anhydrous methanol, recommended by some, is used for the extraction, but it is a poor solvent for psilocin wouldn't that lead to an incomplete extraction? If water is in the solution, say 70%, would that hurt the psilocin? What would be the best solvent and temperature to fully extract the psilocin and not damage it?
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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sickpup
Stranger


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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3890209 - 03/08/05 11:02 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've actually been considering using butane as a solvent.
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NoodleSalad
umm...yeah

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3890228 - 03/08/05 11:05 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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In the article he says "This alkaloid is reasonably soluble in boiling water from which it can be nicely crystallized." Does this mean if i were to boil shrooms in water and then let it evaporate i would have psilocybin crystals. Also if this doesn't work can you explain why. Forgive me if this sounds stupid, but that's why I'm asking.
-------------------- life is one big question when your starin at the clock And the answers always waiting at the liqour store, 40 oz to Freedom, so I'll take that walk. And I know that ohhhh...I'm not comin back
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: NoodleSalad]
#3890311 - 03/08/05 11:21 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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A very good question. Lots of what Shulgin says contradicts some of the information thats been floating around extraction posts for years.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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NoodleSalad
umm...yeah

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3890325 - 03/08/05 11:24 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Now that i think about it, if you can make tea with the shrooms then it should work, right. I wish i knew more about chemistry.
-------------------- life is one big question when your starin at the clock And the answers always waiting at the liqour store, 40 oz to Freedom, so I'll take that walk. And I know that ohhhh...I'm not comin back
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liveby
Wasted For Time


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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: NoodleSalad]
#3891203 - 03/09/05 02:34 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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this is my extraction tek im yet to try!
Mineral Turpentine 95% Ethanol mix with epson salt then get powederd material and mix , sit for 2 days then filter the junk out with coffee filter ,let it re-crystalize
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 http://www.bruceeisner.com/ -Creating a Sensible Culture
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baraka



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: liveby]
#3891911 - 03/09/05 09:08 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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The thing is with a water extract and half the psilos being solubile its gonna take FOREVER to evap it off and if you boil evaporate it wouldnt it reduce the potency a lot?
Seams like you could do a crude extract with alcohol fairly easily and evap it with hair dryer.
-------------------- This is the only time I really feel alive.
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mescal
shroomologist

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: baraka]
#3892079 - 03/09/05 09:50 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or just eat the fuckers! I mean just how much psilo does one want for an experience? Alcohol or water seem to be the safer options with extractions afik.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: liveby]
#3892968 - 03/09/05 02:12 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry man, I didn't really understand that....
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: NoodleSalad]
#3892976 - 03/09/05 02:13 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's actually better than that. It means you can extract shrooms with boiling water and crystals will form when you cool it.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX] 1
#3893023 - 03/09/05 02:26 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Based solely on that Shulgin article, there are undoubtedly better sources but I'm too lazy to look them up, it would seem that to extract psilocybin it is best (in terms of yield) to extract with anhydrous (boiling) methanol. For psilocin extraction, it seems best to extract with 70% ethanol (also boiling). It also says that psilocin extraction takes a good deal longer than psilocybin extraction.
Putting it all together, I'd say the best procedure would be to first extract with boiling, anhydrous methanol for a short period of time (no clue as to this exact amount of time but perhaps 12 hours) and crystallize psilocybin from this by cooling and collecting the crystals which form. Then take the wet mushroom pulp and fan it dry. Extract again with boiling 70% ethanol, maybe for a few days this time. Crystallize as above.
If no crystals form in either case, quickly evap. off some of the solvent and cool again (on ice). If possible, do the lengthy portions of the extraction without oxygen (under a drying tube, CO2, N2, etc.). It's not water alone which hurts the psilocybin or psilocin, it's water combined with O2 or just O2.
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Aeolus1369
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: ChuangTzu]
#3897271 - 03/10/05 11:15 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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And everyone remember to be careful when boiling methanol and ethanol. If you're not using an electric stove, the vapors could easily catch fire and burn all your alkaloids to a crisp
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BladeLSD
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3897320 - 03/10/05 11:26 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Im a chemistry major yay..ok enough of the bragging... what shulgin is saying is that ethanol works really well when there is almost no water present, but when using methanol, and there is water present say 30% it is very inefficient. so your best bet is to use ethanol not methanol, because no matter how much water is in the methanol it will be an inefficient procedure.
-------------------- We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity
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BladeLSD
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: ChuangTzu]
#3897339 - 03/10/05 11:31 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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sorry but i disagree dont using boiling anhydrous ethanol, or methanol shulgin saysQuote:
The isolation of psilocybin seemed to be quite reasonable. This alkaloid is reasonably soluble in boiling water from which it can be nicely crystallized. It is less soluble in boiling methanol, and almost insoluble in boiling ethanol.
your best bet is just to use anhydrous ethanol,of course if you want to do two extractions to retrieve both psilocin and psilocybin 70% aqous solution of ethanol is best for psilocin methanol is fine for psilocybin with almost no water in it of course works for all the cats i know who do it...
-------------------- We might get glimpse's of objectivity every now, and then, but we're so inherently locked in our temporal and corporeal selves that we're irrevocably locked into subjectivity
Edited by BladeLSD (03/10/05 11:35 AM)
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: Aeolus1369]
#3897694 - 03/10/05 12:47 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Very true my fellow Nordic dweller.
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: BladeLSD]
#3897722 - 03/10/05 12:51 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
BladeLSD said: Im a chemistry major yay..
Been there, done that...
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: ChuangTzu]
#3897984 - 03/10/05 01:42 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
ChuangTzu said: Putting it all together, I'd say the best procedure would be to first extract with boiling, anhydrous methanol for a short period of time (no clue as to this exact amount of time but perhaps 12 hours) and crystallize psilocybin from this by cooling and collecting the crystals which form.
I don't think that psilocybin would crystallize in methanol. I'm actually fairly sure that it wouldn't. Maybe using a more selective solvent, like naptha, at cold temperatures would cause good crystallization. I'd say to evap the methanol, then redissolve all the solute in freezing naptha. The psilocbin would crystallize and everything else would go through a filter paper.
Quote:
Then take the wet mushroom pulp and fan it dry. Extract again with boiling 70% ethanol, maybe for a few days this time. Crystallize as above.
Yea, thats what I'm thinking will work too.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3898162 - 03/10/05 02:40 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoopaX said: I don't think that psilocybin would crystallize in methanol. I'm actually fairly sure that it wouldn't.
Well I'm fairly sure it would. Shulgin says "This alkaloid is reasonably soluble in boiling water from which it can be nicely crystallized. It is less soluble in boiling methanol." This would imply that it most certainly would crystallize.
Quote:
Maybe using a more selective solvent, like naptha, at cold temperatures would cause good crystallization.
Selective for what, depends on what you're dealing with...
Quote:
I'd say to evap the methanol, then redissolve all the solute in freezing naptha. The psilocbin would crystallize and everything else would go through a filter paper.
I suppose you mean naphtha at the freezing point of water since you're not going to dissolve much in a solid.... And if that's the case, how are you going to get it to crystallize, make it even colder?
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: ChuangTzu]
#3900577 - 03/10/05 10:58 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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No no man, I always seem to miscommunicate this point. I'm going to put the crystals in something that they aren't soluable in, but that other extracted materials may be. That substance would be naptha stored in the freezer. Pour the crystals of both solutions into the naptha, filter, and keep the crystals that stay in the solution. Yoou are just, in effect, "washing" the crystals off and allowing them to form even purer.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3901101 - 03/11/05 01:45 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoopaX said: No no man, I always seem to miscommunicate this point. I'm going to put the crystals in something that they aren't soluable in, but that other extracted materials may be. That substance would be naptha stored in the freezer. Pour the crystals of both solutions into the naptha, filter, and keep the crystals that stay in the solution. Yoou are just, in effect, "washing" the crystals off and allowing them to form even purer.
Ok, but then you should have just said that because washing and crystallizing are two very different, though complementary, things. You should always wash your crystals after crystallizing and between recrystallizations.
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paradis_
Hey, this is mycult forumaccount
Registered: 03/12/05
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3908117 - 03/12/05 04:22 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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It might work like that, but I still think PF's simple alcohol tek would be more fruitful.
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: paradis_]
#3909402 - 03/12/05 09:28 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Than what?
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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MushroomMarkk
Stranger

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3918581 - 03/14/05 10:07 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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couldn't since psilocybin is soluble in water, and psilocin is soluble in ethanol, wouldn't a 70% ethanol, 30% water mixture extract both psilocybin and psilocin, or couldn't you use the method that was stated above, and since methanol is harder to come by, you could extract the psilocin with ethanol, then take the mushroom goop, and boil it in water to extract the psilocybin?
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst

Registered: 11/12/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: MushroomMarkk]
#3925479 - 03/16/05 01:05 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think that heat is one of the things we are trying to avoid.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 1,420
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3928834 - 03/17/05 12:58 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know jack about extractions, but I do know Shulgin is a Master Chemist an KNOWS what he is talking about (no matter the amount of drugs he's ingested )
This has been discussed many times before. Do a search.
IMO, vinegar is where its at.
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#3928849 - 03/17/05 01:05 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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Heres an extra link to check out HERE.
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newton
Stranger

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#3934678 - 03/18/05 08:38 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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i've made simple extractions using everclear. i even baught the 151 proof by accident. used it anyway. i put 12-14 grams of powder in a half pint jar, and just cover it with everclear by a smidgen. than i attach my jar to my blender. its a cusinart 'smart power duet' model (duet? wtf) anyhow, it will fit a regular mouth jar onto its rigging.
i turn on the Pulse mode and give it a few half second blasts on low. than some stronger blasts, all real quick tho. while dusting dried mushies in it i learned that its operating friction will heat the mixing blade up real quick. so i keep it to quick bursts. anyhow i mix it for a minute or so than i leave it on the blender, but i turn the whole thing upside down, so the jar is on the bottom and the blender thingy is on top. for some reason it balances perfectly and it looks cool too. anyhow, i give the blender a zing every 10 mintues to an hour or whenever for 6 hours. than i filter it out thru a coffee filter thru a funnel. than i resoak it again in fresh everclear and blend it again etc etc, but this time for 12 hours. than i mix the two and evaperate it down till it fits into a '1 oz. Bottle with Glass Dropper' from the container store, which looks to me like more than 1 oz. when it came time to try it, i took one dropper full. not enough to notice anything over my previous herbal high (wink)
the next day i took two dropperfulls in the morning. i didn't expect much to happen. about 20 minutes later i was manually adding some co2 to some plants and i started to get dizzy and was wondering why i felt flush, than i realized- i must be inhaling too much co2... so i ran into my bathroom and opened the window. i sat on the edge of the sink to calm down and get some air, as i looked over at the bathroom door, i began laughing as i watched the doors woodgrain patterns wash up onto the doorknob, and now remembering the dose i entirely forgot about and that i had thought that i was suffocating.... HA 2 droppers was much more powerful than expected from not noticing one. i dont keep track of time much so im not sure the duration.
me likey.
squirt squirt.
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Colonel Kurtz Ph.D
What What?

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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: newton]
#3935525 - 03/18/05 11:58 AM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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On a side note, would you be able to do this with ethanol + benzal chloride (0.1gr per 100ml of ethanol)?
Would it be poisonous or would it decompose with water / evaporate?
I don't seem to find pure ethanol anywhere around here...
Thanks in advance, I'm eager to try this extraction as soon as I'm sure of this.
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There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


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I don't know about that, but I did find this on benzal chloride::
More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 6 ranking systems. Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health.
Found here.
Sounds like some bad stuff.
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Colonel Kurtz Ph.D
What What?

Registered: 07/22/04
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#3940722 - 03/19/05 04:17 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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"CHEMICAL DANGERS: The substance decomposes on burning or on contact with acids and water producing toxic fumes including hydrogen chloride (see ICSC #0163). Reacts with strong oxidants. "
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0101.htm
Does this mean it's safe to use? Since the ethanol is at 96% I'll have to put water in it, and that would decompose it. Am I right? Or shuold I be careful and try to get pure ethanol?
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There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!
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ChuangTzu
starvingphysicist



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Be careful and get pure ethanol. Jeez man, it's pretty obvious ain't it?
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Colonel Kurtz Ph.D
What What?

Registered: 07/22/04
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Loc: Shadow Moses
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: ChuangTzu]
#3941028 - 03/19/05 05:19 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't know where to get it. I went to a chemistry store and they only got that... I don't even think there's pure ethanol for sale here in Spain...
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There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


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What I would do is distill the ethanol. Thats just me though
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Colonel Kurtz Ph.D
What What?

Registered: 07/22/04
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Loc: Shadow Moses
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: MrMaddHatter]
#3941502 - 03/19/05 07:17 PM (19 years, 2 months ago) |
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I also tought of that, but I wouldn't know how to do it. Any advice? 
Man, it looks harder to me to find the proper disolvent than to do the extraction itself.
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There's no better way to rock out than with your cock out!!
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MrMaddHatter
Dementia praecox


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I'm too fcked up to ramble on about distilling. Do a search on google.
Dilute acetic acid (plain 'ol vinegar) will work well also.
Check this out.
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convulsions
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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: SoopaX]
#12288057 - 03/28/10 02:22 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why not use acetone as a solvent? It solvable both polar and non polar compounds remarkably well, so it should readily solvate both psilocybin being a zwitterion and psilocin, whether or not it is a salt of a free base.
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whitelight7
Sr.



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: Aeolus1369]
#12288625 - 03/28/10 04:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aeolus1369 said: Interesting, except I found it a bit funny that he referred to the mushrooms as "plants" 
that's probably because of his age, mushies used to classified as plants.
-------------------- Staunch supporter of spontaneous generation
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Shulgin on psilocybin extraction [Re: whitelight7]
#12310940 - 04/01/10 09:42 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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People have speculated on this for many years.
The fact is that with any crude extraction you're not going to get crystals! At least not what you're hoping for.
A crude extract is 99% bio-gunk and 1% actives. The crystals you see are just bio-gunk. Countless fractions of that bio-gunk crystalize out long before the actives.
-FF
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