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Poutine andSodomy
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avoiding syrian rue discomfort?
    #3883163 - 03/07/05 05:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I was just wondering what can be done to avoid discomfort w/syrian rue? Over the weekend I ate about 5 grams of rue 45 minutes prior to injesting 5 grams of mushies. I fasted the whole day as I didn't want to have a bad reaction w/any of the food that I ate. I'm no stranger to 10-15 gram shroom trips so I didn't feel eating 5 grams w/the MOAI would pose a problem. As far as the trip went it was pretty enjoyable other than the discomfort from the rue.

I felt extremely uncomfortable as soon as I started to trip, my head felt like it weighed 500 lbs and i could barely lift it up. I was basically glued to the couch for the rest of the evening b/c I could barely move my head around, it was extremely uncomforatable. I definitely felt the effects of the MOAI as I was tripping for much longer than any of my friends, who did not take it but in the future I think I'd rather just eat more caps.

This leads me to my next question... Do all MOAI's make you feel like this or is is it something Rue specific? I ask as I am very interested in trying ayahusca sometime in the near future, but not if it is going to make me feel so shitty. I wouldn't ever want to feel that shitty, especially if I was going to be on the insane trip that is supposed to be had by DMT.


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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: disturbed]
    #3883579 - 03/07/05 06:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Short answer : Stick to 3 grams of syrian rue and extract the alkaloids with the Manske method found on google ( you make them percipitate by turning the solution saturated with salt and then put in the fridge)

LOnger answer: Peganum harmala has various alkaloids with many unpleasant properties.These can cause alot of problems especially in big doses of peganum harmala...The extraction is recommended...Expect some nausea but not unbearable feelings...DO not view the syrian rue as a mere potentiator of the experience...It is reputed to add its own overtones!That means that 5 grams of dry mushrooms + Rue is not the same as 10 grams of dried mushrooms.5 grams with rue is....5 grams with rue.10 grams dry is....10 grams dry!

How was your trip overall? any differences that the 5 grams without the rue? By the way,you are talking dry grams eh?

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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: Psiloman]
    #3883754 - 03/07/05 07:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Good answer.

I was gonna say less rue mang. Less rue.

I have dosed basically quite plesantly on dried and rue, with the exception of the naseua. i would be in mid sentence, and regur-ji-tate as if it were nothing, and finish my sentence, while walkin trails and stuff. It was pretty natural. But vomitting suchs major ass. the salty-ness. yucky.

A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.

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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: AbstractHarmonix]
    #3883866 - 03/07/05 08:10 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry about that. I'm gonna work on an extraction soon. See ya at the farm field.


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Mad Scientist
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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: Ekstaza]
    #3885104 - 03/08/05 12:20 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Just a touch of color to the discussion. I have read (online somewhere) that what the Shamans say about MAOIs is that the Ayahuasca experience is generated more from the MAOI containing plant (Banisteriopsis Cappi, Syrian rue, etc.) than the DMT containing one. Apparently, many people think it is the DMT that is the basis for the effect. The Shamans say its the for a little more color. B. Cappi is called Ayahuasca as well as the brew made from it.

As for avoiding discomfort, I can't give any good advice except to speculate it could be that Peganum harmala alkaloids and Psilocybin don't synergize well. Maybe try the rue by itself, alone in a dark room and examine the effects. Perhaps this will shed light on the situation.

Well, that's my 3 cents toward enlightenment. Hope you enjoyed.

Edited by shymanta (03/08/05 12:32 AM)

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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: shymanta]
    #3886170 - 03/08/05 07:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Indeed many tribes focus more on the MAOI portion taking amounts of Banisteriopsis roughly equal to 9 or 10 grams of peganum (and you thought that 5 grams were rough!!!).Of course banisteriopsis has a slightly different alkaloid profile than peganum which is such a big dose would make a huge dfference...

I think the synergy between peganum and psilocin/psilocybin may be generally ok,but personal variables come into play also...We differ in genetics and hence metabolism ,so one could say that maybe ths combination doesnt quite agree with the original poster's genetic indiosyngracy

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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: Psiloman]
    #3886233 - 03/08/05 08:09 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

and many find that you don't need anywhere near a "full-MAOI-dose" (say 150 to 250 milligrams of mixed beta-carbolines for complete inhibition of monoamineoxidase enzyme activity) for something noticable to happen when using rueseed (or caapi, or even stuff like passionflower, puncture vine, or catsclaw) or pure harmala alkaloids at level of 25 to 50 milligrams total alkaloids...

aside: so many folks want to find how much they can ingest & live to tell the tale...
i sometimes find it more interesting to find of how small a dose (of whatever) i can ingest & still feel entheogenic effects...

old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Re: avoiding syrian rue discomfort? [Re: disturbed]
    #3890353 - 03/09/05 01:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I see you've tried the rue...
What method did you use to ingest?
I find grinding them as fine as possible helps, and I wouldn't recommend drinking seed powder, it's too gritty and irritates the stomach.

For a small dose, it might be worth boiling the powder in some water and straining off the powder, for a larger extraction, you can do it with white vinegar and non iodized salt. I wouldn't recommend this extraction except for extracting large quantities of seeds. You can find the tek on erowid.org under the syrian rue vault.

Sounds like 5 grams was a bit too much, rue can be notorious for causing nausea. You might want to eat something next time before hand (something light like bread, just make sure it's nothing on the restricted food lists for MAOI's, also available on Erowid.org. Restricted foods are things like cheese, soy sauce, and wine, and just about anything aged. While you probably won't die eating these foods within 8 hours before taking the rue, they can cause some nasty side effects like headaches and high blood pressure.)

Finally, one unique thing about rue is the sedated feeling. Usually the higher the dose, the more sedation. Hope these tips help.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> The Ethnobotanical Garden

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