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Invisibleniteowl
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God AND Evolution
    #3874747 - 03/05/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

son: Father what is God?

father: God is the soul of the Mother Earth....the "GreatSpirit"

son: Why are we here?

father: The Mother Earth needed children, so the GreatSpirit helped her made us.

What is our purpose?

The GreatSpirit wants to learn more about the "universe". He will need smart creatures to do this. That is why we are hear. To learn.

The Mothers job is to create creatures that can learn.



How did the GreatSpirit make us?


When the Mother was young their was no life. Then small things began to grow in the waters of the Earth.
With help of the Mother, these small creatures grew into larger creatures. Then they moved upon the land.

And there was much life.....but no smart life like us. Just great wild beasts feeding off each other. The Mother was not pleased with these beasts and asked the GreatSpirit to help. The GreatSpirit tried to help the beasts, but it was too late for them. So the GreatSpirit destroyed ALL life on the Mother Earth.


Were these beasts good or bad?

They were just beasts. Only humans can be good or bad.

Why did the GreatSpirit kill ALL life and not just the beasts?

In order for the Mother Earth to start over ALL life had to be destroyed. So the Mother could start with a clean slate. The GreatSpirit told the Mother Earth that she let the beast come to be, by not challenging them in the right ways. And told the Mother that she should ask for His help more often.(he dosent like having to destroy life) To not be afraid to admit to making a mistake. He would rather help you than see you make a mistake

What did the Mother do then?

Well the Mother had to start over with small creatures in the water...then teach them how to move on to land....how to walk...to talk and think.
This time the Mother would ask the GreatSpirit for help many times, sometimes He would help, sometimes He would not.
Thats how we came to be my son.



Cool......thanks Dad.




----


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #3875179 - 03/06/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

"Dad, will you make up another fairy tale for me?"

Your avatar is awesome btw.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: freddurgan]
    #3875355 - 03/06/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
Your avatar is awesome btw.



:thumbup:

What about the evolution of God?

God as a painting> God as a Totem Pole> God as a force> God as a collection of forces> God as the Force> God as the creator of all forces> What's next?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #3876216 - 03/06/05 06:28 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Nice post, except the part where you say that ALL life was destroyed on Earth at one point. There was alot of life that disappeared at the time of the dinosaurs' exctinction, but most of the living creatures survived whatever happened 65 million years ago.

So "mother earth" did not have to start over with small creatures in the water again. Our 'virtual' ancestor, or what we evolved from, was probably one of these creatures that survived.


--------------------


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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God AND Evolution AND Killing AND Funny Shit....! [Re: niteowl]
    #3876400 - 03/06/05 09:45 AM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
What is our purpose?
.
The GreatSpirit wants to learn more about the "universe". He will need smart creatures to do this. That is why we are hear. To learn.
.
The Mothers job is to create creatures that can learn.




-----
The "Great Spirit" created the Universe, for what would he need anything to understand it "better"...?

We are here to simply enjoy life for what it is (free from sin) selflessly (within reason) without intentionally hurting others....  Love, honesty, compassion, and enjoyment....  All that positive free fun stuff....

A mother's "job" (as well as the father's) is to nurture, provide, and love her child....  And point the child honestly in the right directions of life and love as to make a happy life in the world with his/her free choices.... 





Quote:

How did the GreatSpirit make us?
.
When the Mother was young their was no life. Then small things began to grow in the waters of the Earth.
With help of the Mother, these small creatures grew into larger creatures. Then they moved upon the land.
.
And there was much life.....but no smart life like us. Just great wild beasts feeding off each other. The Mother was not pleased with these beasts and asked the GreatSpirit to help. The GreatSpirit tried to help the beasts, but it was too late for them. So the GreatSpirit destroyed ALL life on the Mother Earth.




-----
So, why would the Mother not be "pleased" for having her "children" grow, to which she "helped" them to do....?    What was too late....?  Since this "story" is somewhat based on GOD creating Evolution, why would they not be allowed to evolve some more...? 

And how could a father kill (for no good reason) all of what he created...?  And the Mother allowed it, or was in on it...?  :lol:    Because they were "not pleased"....?  Hhhhmmmmmm....  :shake:  Don't sound like good parents in this "story" to me....

Perhaps a "time out" would have been more appropriate...?  :lol:





Quote:

Were these beasts good or bad?
.
They were just beasts. Only humans can be good or bad.
.....
Why did the GreatSpirit kill ALL life and not just the beasts?
.
In order for the Mother Earth to start over ALL life had to be destroyed. So the Mother could start with a clean slate. The GreatSpirit told the Mother Earth that she let the beast come to be, by not challenging them in the right ways. And told the Mother that she should ask for His help more often.(he dosent like having to destroy life) To not be afraid to admit to making a mistake. He would rather help you than see you make a mistake



-----
This is the point where "The Great Spirit" would have admitted his own mistakes for not giving the mother good advice in the first place....  Since he failed at giving good advice the first time without admitting it, why on earth (pun) would she ask for his help a second time...?  Is this "story" from a Jerry Springer episode....?  :lol:

And if he "didn't like having to destroy life", he would not have....  He would have been more responsible, and "tried harder"....  Mistakes can be forgiven, if and when they are recognized....





Quote:

What did the Mother do then?
.
Well the Mother had to start over with small creatures in the water...then teach them how to move on to land....how to walk...to talk and think.
This time the Mother would ask the GreatSpirit for help many times, sometimes He would help, sometimes He would not.
Thats how we came to be my son.




-----
"Taught" them how to move onto land...?  :lol: 

So, the "Great Spirit" TOLD the mother to ask for more help, and he only "sometimes" helped...?  Is there a lawsuit pending...?  :lol:





Quote:

Cool......thanks Dad.



-----
I hope the child in this "story" asked his mom for the right answers....!  :lol:
Or, if it were me, and my dad thought that way, I would be running for the hills never to return....!  :rotfl:



This whole "story" was so riddled with holes, it is almost a hole itself....!  :rotfl:
(would that make it holy...? :shocked: )



This "story" was as fun to read as it was to point out it's contradictory flaws....  :smile:
Much entertainment.... 
(and, nice avatar)  :naughty:


ME....


:heartpump: :heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3876822 - 03/06/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
What about the evolution of God?




I'm going to start a thread about the "evolution" of God soon.


What I call "GreatSpirit" is not "god" in the classic, omnipotent, all powerful view.

Just another "spirit" growing and learning from His mistakes.


The idea of an "ALL POWERFUL" god doesn't make any sense to me.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #3876891 - 03/06/05 01:06 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

""God as a painting> God as a Totem Pole> God as a force> God as a collection of forces> God as the Force> God as the creator of all forces> What's next? ""

>God as this?>

:wink:


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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Offlineegghead1
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: Gomp]
    #3876916 - 03/06/05 01:10 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

God as a figment of our imagination, God as a state of mind, God as nature, God as us, God as one, God as the interconnective force which links us all, and many many more.  :wink: :heart:


--------------------
All you need is Love! Really thats it! Infinite Unconditional Love! Just develop that and all else will fall into place perfectly!


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God AND Evolution AND Killing AND Funny Shit....! [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3876973 - 03/06/05 01:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
The "Great Spirit" created the Universe, for what would he need anything to understand it "better"...?




In this example, the GreatSpirit is not the "calssic" example of "god".

I never said that the GreatSpirit created the universe.

You made that assumption on your own.


Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
A mother's "job" (as well as the father's) is to nurture, provide, and love her child.... And point the child honestly in the right directions of life and love as to make a happy life in the world with his/her free choices....




Yes.....but. Are all parents perfect?

Have you ever seen a parent that did not make any mistakes?





Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
So, why would the Mother not be "pleased" for having her "children" grow, to which she "helped" them to do....?




The beasts were allowed to "grow/evolve" pretty much on their own. The Mother did not guide them in the right ways. So no intelligent creatures evolved. The GreatSpirit tried to help, but it was already too late for the great beasts. They had to go for new creatures to come about.




Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
And how could a father kill (for no good reason) all of what he created...? And the Mother allowed it, or was in on it...?




Their was no intelligent life. The GreatSpirit tried to make the beasts intelligent but it was too late


Quote:

Why did the GreatSpirit kill ALL life and not just the beasts?




They may not have all been destroyed as stated here....

Quote:

exclusive58 said:
Nice post, except the part where you say that ALL life was destroyed on Earth at one point. There was alot of life that disappeared at the time of the dinosaurs' exctinction, but most of the living creatures survived whatever happened 65 million years ago.




Im just tying the current "scientific" view of evolution with a spiritual twist.


I was under the assumption that "all" life was destroyed when the dinosaurs were.


My mistake.


Quote:

This is the point where "The Great Spirit" would have admitted his own mistakes for not giving the mother good advice in the first place....





again......not all parents are perfect.

Mistakes will be made.


Quote:

Mistakes can be forgiven, if and when they are recognized....




The GreatSpirit did forgive the Mother, and gave Her another chance to get it right.





Quote:

So, the "Great Spirit" TOLD the mother to ask for more help, and he only "sometimes" helped...?





Yes.

Someimes children will ask for help when they really dont need it. That is when the parent tells them "Try harder son and I think you will be able to do it"...rather than doing it for the child. We can only learn by doing things on our own.

If our parents did everything for us we would have never learned to tie our own shoes.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: God AND Evolution AND Killing AND Funny Shit....! [Re: niteowl]
    #3877287 - 03/06/05 03:15 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

God as a twisted unifying force used to subvert resources by doing his will? :lol:

IMO god is all good and fine, till man starts telling everyone exactly what god is saying... That's when the trouble begins.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: God AND Evolution AND Killing AND Funny Shit....! [Re: niteowl]
    #3877349 - 03/06/05 03:28 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

nice panties


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: God AND Evolution AND Killing AND Funny Shit....! [Re: niteowl]
    #3879034 - 03/06/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

In this example, the GreatSpirit is not the "calssic" example of "god".
.
I never said that the GreatSpirit created the universe.
.
You made that assumption on your own.





My bad, I don't know all religions....  I did make an assumption that "Great Spirit" was GOD....  Perhaps it was because the thread title has "GOD" in it....?    :wink:    It was presented in "story" form, I took it as a "story"....  I didn't perceive it as a religion, with a GOD, and a Great Spirit....  I missed the seperation somewhere....  :confused:


Are all parents perfect...?  I didn't say anything about anyone being perfect, nor not making mistakes....  :confused:


"With help of the Mother, these small creatures grew into larger creatures. Then they moved upon the land."
How is this allowing them to grow on their own....?  It does not read like this in the "story" when you say "helped"....


"Their was no intelligent life. The GreatSpirit tried to make the beasts intelligent but it was too late"
What was too late....?  Is there a time period that life has to become "intelligent" and evolve...?  I am asking....


"The GreatSpirit did forgive the Mother, and gave Her another chance to get it right."
So, it is OK to KILL your children if they are not what you sort of "helped" (or allowed) them to be....  I think I get it, now....    :confused:


"If our parents did everything for us we would have never learned to tie our own shoes."
So, "helping" children in this "story" really means "Doing it For Them"....  (as per your reply)  I guess I am not understanding the meaning that is hidden from the words presented....    Hhhhmmmm....


Quote:

Quote:

So, the "Great Spirit" TOLD the mother to ask for more help, and he only "sometimes" helped...?



.
Yes.
.
Someimes children will ask for help when they really dont need it. That is when the parent tells them "Try harder son and I think you will be able to do it"...rather than doing it for the child. We can only learn by doing things on our own.




In your reply above, you kinda~ insinuated that "The Great Spirit" was also the Father of the "Mother".....  To which I don't understand why your answer was about the children....

I must appologize, again, I took this as a "story", not as a religion, as you did not state in the original post....  As was not stated that there was a seperation of GOD and The GREAT SPIRIT, what the "Time Limit" was, the difference between "Allowing" and "Helping", or who created what.... 

Forget my words, forget my posts....  I just don't understand.... 


ME....


:heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: niteowl]
    #3882252 - 03/07/05 01:24 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

PLEASE  Mr. NiteOwl, I ask that you hear me out before any conclusions are drawn....


Quote:

In the: "Do Bacteria Think"  thread, Niteowl said:
.
What if our "thouht" proces doesn't occur in the brain....but comes from our "spiritual" awareness?
.
That would explain why ALL living things display some form of "intelligence"..... even tho they don't have a highly evolved brain like we do.





I did "cross-quote" your words from another thread to find common ground, as it is my goal and intention to understand the meaning behind your words, and to better understand you and your intentions and/or your beliefs as presented in this thread....
*********************************************************

I didn't intend my words to be negative to what you believe in - in this thread....  I seriously did assume it was nothing more than a "story", and I am very sorry if I stepped on any toes of your beliefs....  My bad for making any assumptions sir....

ME====> :frown: :whip:

Your above "Bacteria" post kinda~ contradicts/changes the whole idea behind this "intelligence" evolution in the contextual meaning of the words in this thread (from my perception)....  If evolving does indeed have to do intelligence, then the meaning behind *this* thread will still prolly~ not make sense to me.... 

UNLESS, it does NOT take intelligence to learn and understand more about the universe....  If one could learn about the universe thru Spirituality (which I personally do *believe* is very VERY plausable), and the "children" of "Mother Earth" and "The Great Spirit" were truly incapable of having spirituality thru their evolution, then beasts as they were, I can understand why they would be sacrificed to start over....    BUT, then this clashes with the post above about the bacteria....    Because if even beasts have a spiritual force that is pushing their thoughts, decisions, and ideas, over that of their intelligence, then the "children" were sacrificed out of selfishness....  Again UNLESS, those beasts (children) were just not capable of spiritualness, or their spiritual evolution therein....


Mr. NiteOwl, Perhaps together WE can find a common ground of understanding to our thoughts and ideas - at least that is my goal and intents....  Maybe I was getting the word "children" to much linked to the children we know of as "human children", and not so much in context of the "children" being beasts....  Which would be my misunderstanding/mistake, not yours.... 

After writing this post, I *think* that I have a better understanding to what was not so clear from you words in this *single* thread alone....  Unless I am getting them wrong still....?    To which I would kindly ask you to explain (if you would) what I am missing and/or misunderstanding, so that I can better understand your thoughts, ideas, and beliefs....

Again, I appologize if I have stepped on any toes....  I make mistakes, as your words in this thread left a lot open to interpretation....  And I then jumped on board(as it were :wink: ) without asking any questions, and made many many assumptions thinking it was indeed "just a story"....  My bad.... 

"Perception can be a bitch...." <===My own words that I use often, and I seemingly just got my own perceptional-bitch-slap....  :shake:  :frown:

I will learn from this, as I will learn from you too....  :smile:  :heart:  :peace:


ME....


:heartpump::heartpump:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3882779 - 03/07/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

wow man, i admire your will and your capacity at understanding others. 5 shrooms for you!  :thumbup: :heart:


--------------------


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God AND Evolution [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3883653 - 03/07/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

PhanTomCat said:
UNLESS, it does NOT take intelligence to learn and understand more about the universe....  If one could learn about the universe thru Spirituality (which I personally do *believe* is very VERY plausable), and the "children" of "Mother Earth" and "The Great Spirit" were truly incapable of having spirituality thru their evolution, then beasts as they were, I can understand why they would be sacrificed to start over....    BUT, then this clashes with the post above about the bacteria....    Because if even beasts have a spiritual force that is pushing their thoughts, decisions, and ideas, over that of their intelligence, then the "children" were sacrificed out of selfishness....  Again UNLESS, those beasts (children) were just not capable of spiritualness, or their spiritual evolution therein....





You have stepped on NO toes here my friend  :heartpump:


This concept of a "god" that is NOT omnipotent is somewhat confusing......even for me.

I was going to touch more on this "theory" in a post on the "Evolution of God".....but I will try to explain it here.


Lets assume that everything(minerals,plants,animals......everything) has a "spirit" or energy.

What we percieve to be "God" is only a more evolved "spirit" (the GreatSpirit)......not an "omnipotent, all powerful person"....

This GreatSpirit wants us to "Evolve" He wants us to become "GreatSpirits" too(this may take a while.... :wink: ) Because He lives thru us. He can influence us in many ways (spiritually and physicaly).

The GreatSpirit did not "create the universe" He is just a part of it like we are. A more "evolved spirit". He has a better understanding of how the universe works and can do AMAZING things....but even He has His limits.

He could not make the great beasts intelligent. He tried but they were not challenged in the right ways at the right time. So the Mother had to start over. (the GreatSpirit and the Mother are like two sides of the same coin)

Life is a learning experience for "all creatures/spirits" from the single celled virus all the way up to the "GreatSpirit".

With this "theory" thier are many levels of "Godship"

Their is a GREATSPIRIT for the GreatSpirit.......

How far this "chain of command" goes........... :shrug:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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