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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate)
    #3873724 - 03/05/05 06:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Note: Discussion is applicable to all religions; Example is illustrated in terms of Christian Theology for demonstrative purposes.

Well, first and foremost, of what design, and further, of what purpose would a god have the inherent need to possess gender?

(I'm aware... fully aware that this may be misconstrued as a flame by a good many of you, but really, that is anything but my intention.)

Beyond that, Jehova, which is a very commonly followed god, is denoted to be of a masculine quality, as are all the echolons of his higher regiment ( http://en.wikipedia.org [look up Seraphim, it denotes angels of the highest order]). What purpose other then to suggest that man is to be dominate would this representative imagery be of purpose for?

As, the bible clearly subscribes to the belief, that women are to serve man, for she in fact is lesser from man from being made from a smaller element of man (rib symbolism). (Look it up if you do not believe me, please have a foundation for debate) Among various other characterizations of gender subservience (If you want more, ask, I'd be more then happy to provide them, although I'm not a christian so would have to look it up).

I realize that this is a subject of sancrosanct nature.... but what purpose would a God need for genitalia... I've never heard, or read of anything regarding Jehova (Note: nothing against those that are of this belief system, just used due to the fact that the Biblical belief is rather common knowledge) having affairs, and/or using his "tool" for any such purposes.

What would be the purpose of a God having a form as it were other then to occupy it? (I'd be a toaster, or something to that effect.... always wondered how it would feel to warm up bread, I'd be a good toaster though.... not like those others that burn the toast.)

(I was banned, so was unable to post/reply, so had to write something to occupy myself with)

I realize that I'm just a man, trying to think like a god, but why would a god think so much like a man? :lol:

Thoughts, comments, bitching, moaning, (cries of heresy) are all appreciated. Just explain your reasoning.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/05/05 07:14 PM)


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873824 - 03/05/05 07:23 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

All gods in history are made on mans image, not vice versa.

If god is the ultimate thing, then he can not be described, because as soon as you start describing something you are taking away it's title of the ultimate and highest thing.

here is a valid definition of god.

A definition consists of two parts. One is cathegory, other is qualities that differ it from other things in that cathegory.
Since god is ultimate, there is no cathegory above it, and since he is ultimate, he does not lack any qualities that exist (he has all of them) which levase you with

"God is."

And that's all you can really say about something ultimate.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3873853 - 03/05/05 07:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah... but I was looking for something a bit more specific. Say you are comming form the supposition that Jehova (example purposes) is the ultimate god. How is it that you explain the purpose of a "God" (as you said, being an ultimate) needing to, and/or showing a form of favortism in the form that they take?

(Jehova is denoted, and is illustrated in context of "he").

Comming from this perspective, Man indeed was derived directly from God's image.... so. Guess I'm looking for a religious explanation instead of a holistic one.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinespread8out
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873882 - 03/05/05 07:42 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Check out "Food of the Gods" by Terence McKenna. You'll find a lot of interesting information on archaic worship and how we seemed to have been more geared towards feminine deities.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: spread8out]
    #3873896 - 03/05/05 07:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Argh, I'm asking for your opinions  :tongue: ... Not someone else's. Male/Female the form of gender is irrelevant. The fact of gender is relevant.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873922 - 03/05/05 07:54 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well in the past, I've posted a few ideas regarding Jehovah, and they are far from the ultimate being.

But to step into this form of thinking, like I said, Jehovah was created on mans image. There is no other way these Jews could picture god than a man, it fit in their logic that way.

Of course god is not a mammal, nor does it have penis, and I think old Jews did realize that much, but they still couldn''t shake the idea of god being a male. They could not picture a sexlesss being in their heads.

try to explain to a little child that his dog is not aware of itself, or try to explain to him that there are radio waves flying over his head.

The old testament is pretty much a
savage-ready-spirituality-in-10-easy-steps it barely kept the old folks from slaughtering each other, it was strict, crude and relativley effitient at that time. It provided guidlines for social-traffic (morality), medical advices and other things that were supose to keep the ignorant man from destroying istelf.

Eastern religions and new testament on the other hand are the next step man had to take. Actual spiritual growth.

I see old testament as little more than a book of practical (the key word) laws and guidlines.

But I REALLY doubt that these laws and guidlines came from some supreme being. They were either made by priests to keep structure, or they were imposed by some other more advanced alien civilisations.

If you came into a dog pound, and had to make order there in 5 minutes, would you try to teach dogs love, or use fear and authority to make them all shut up? You can't teach them love because they are not ready and you you only have five minutes before they all kill each other. That's the method the authors of old testament used too.
A quick and easy solution.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3873930 - 03/05/05 07:57 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah... I'm fully aware of it from that perspective. I'm looking for a perspective from those that Believe, and denote the actual Gender (note: those actually assert that God is a male/female).

Not the reasoning and rational behind. E.G. memetic structure, selling fear, social conformity, or any man-made vice of explanation in regards to that. The "spiritual reasoning"... not what god does, but what god is. (Does in the way of what it provides as a social mechanism).


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873944 - 03/05/05 08:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Well, then I can't help you much because I'm probably on your side


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873950 - 03/05/05 08:02 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

lost in translation?

----------

he  Audio pronunciation of "he" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (h)
pron.

  1.
        1. Used to refer to the man or boy previously mentioned or implied.
        2. Used to refer to a male animal.
  2. Usage Problem. Used to refer to a person whose gender is unspecified or unknown: ?He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence? (William Blake).
----------


now you read, "Used to refer to a person whose gender is unspecified or unknown"


so God is not a he, he is a he. as in unknown :P

gotta love this language, yes?  :heart:

:sun:


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3873958 - 03/05/05 08:04 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well, then I can't help you much because I'm probably on your side




:lol: Yeah. Not trying to take sides, just trying to attempt to understand why something like a God would need a gender (Spiritually).

(Dunno, if you could really do anything, could just snap your fingers and do whatever is needed by way of an ascribed Gender... the whole reason why this confuses me. Could just leave it up to "mysterious ways" .... but, would like something a bit more substantial if anyone can offer it.)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3873965 - 03/05/05 08:07 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"..God, he is male and female... ..as he is either, he is not."
-Unknown :P

and/or ..as he is either, he is neither.. :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


Edited by Gomp (03/05/05 08:12 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Gomp]
    #3874019 - 03/05/05 08:22 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

back to square one eh Gomp? :lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3874036 - 03/05/05 08:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'm sorry, come again?
:confused: :thumbup:


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3874051 - 03/05/05 08:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

some ancient pagan religions worshipped a goddess rather than a god. the christian church replaced many pagan symbols and holidays with their own and in that process they replaced goddess with god. the judeo-christian religions are very masculine oriented (not literally, but rather promote the male characteristic of linearity) as opposed to the pagan religions which worshipped nature and the feminine aspect of cyclical time.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: moog]
    #3874067 - 03/05/05 08:33 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Which still begs the question: Why do gods have a gender? Granted, some of them have gender's as they fuck a lot (Greek Mythology among various others)... But as for the ones that Claim to be Alpha and Omega (Singular without respect to their own creation, which they created)... what's the purpose?

Is it to denote just a fundamental characteristic, symbolic in nature, etc... Or is the basis for it found elsewhere (thinking in terms of the ascribed belief, in way of its explanation)?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: moog]
    #3874070 - 03/05/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

God is a personified goddess? :P


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Offlineguest23
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: moog]
    #3874073 - 03/05/05 08:34 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Because English doesn't have a pronoun to refer to a person with an unspecified gender.
EDIT: meant to reply to first post


Edited by guest23 (03/05/05 08:35 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: guest23]
    #3874079 - 03/05/05 08:36 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

guest23 said:
Because English doesn't have a pronoun to refer to a person with an unspecified gender.




"It"

Example:
A: Is that a girl?
B: I think it's a man.
A: Whatever the hell "it" is, it's fugly.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Gomp]
    #3874083 - 03/05/05 08:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Why do gods have a gender?

because gods are everywhere as everything? omnipresent?  :P

:confused:
:sun:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Why does God have a Gender? (Christian Example, all gods of gender open to debate) [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3874089 - 03/05/05 08:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

guest23 said:
Because English doesn't have a pronoun to refer to a person with an unspecified gender.




"It"

Example:
A: Is that a girl?
B: I think it's a man.
A: Whatever the hell "it" is, it's fugly.





he Audio pronunciation of "he" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h)
pron.

1.
1. Used to refer to the man or boy previously mentioned or implied.
2. Used to refer to a male animal.
2. Usage Problem. Used to refer to a person whose gender is unspecified or unknown: ?He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence? (William Blake).

:sun:


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