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Offline2ndRegime
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Registered: 06/22/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Western Region
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
Authority of Security Guards
    #3873486 - 03/05/05 05:49 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Just like the topic says, I was wondering what kind of authority security guards (Walmart, Malls, Best Buy etc) have over shroomery civilians such as ourselves. I know they're not cops(?) so they aren't able to detain us nor perform a search under reasonable cause. If they ask us to come with them (to god knows where)I'm sure I'd be able to not consent to shit and just run like hell? Yes? No? Any Input?

Also does the fourth amendment apply to vehicles? I get a lot of different answers but I think that right is basically lost once we enter our vehicles.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: 2ndRegime]
    #3873503 - 03/05/05 05:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

They can kick you out. I'm not sure if they're able to detain you until the cops get there or not, but I suspect they are.


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Invisibleroby000
me
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Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,189
Loc: nazi poland
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: Silversoul]
    #3874247 - 03/05/05 09:07 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i know that an unprovoked physicall detention is unauthorized. however i did have a friend who worked as a mall cop and somehow wound up beating up a dude in a wheel chair who was stealing shoes...

just avoid the ones that look like they want to be marines or cops. there are chill ones too though.... i duno...

as of searching cars... they ask first and normaly i consent so they dont do such a thourogh job and overlook alot. however i am fairly certain that to search the trunk they need a warant. i myself had a safe box in the hood of my car which could hold alot of things. it heated up a bit but not too much... another good thing is the safe that looks like a wd 40 bottle or engine cleaner and leave it in your trunk or in the back of your pickup.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: roby000]
    #3874379 - 03/05/05 09:28 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

An attempt to induce fear into you, to prevent you from shop lifting (which you shouldn't do anyhow)... They don't really have direct rights on personhood, beyond detaining you (provided they can prove that you've taken something, or some similar device [electronic sensors]) give them the impression you have.

~Stationary Rent a cops, without the gun (more often then not).


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlineunbeliever
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
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Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: roby000]
    #3874385 - 03/05/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You have no fourth amendment rights in regards to store security. They have the right to search your person for concealed merchandise. From that they have the right to detain you long enough to establish whether you are in possession of store property.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: unbeliever]
    #3874412 - 03/05/05 09:38 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Make sure to give them plenty of the rights associated with the first Amendment just to be safe.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 191,597
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: unbeliever]
    #3874618 - 03/05/05 10:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

unbeliever said:
You have no fourth amendment rights in regards to store security. They have the right to search your person for concealed merchandise. From that they have the right to detain you long enough to establish whether you are in possession of store property.




incorrect, security guards have the same rights of detention and search as each
of us do, they cannot detain you without your consent or placing you under a
citizens arrest at which time the have to notify the police that they have taken
you into custody, with out doing this the become liable for false imprisonment
charges which are the equivelent of kidnapping. security guards are civilians
with no power of arrest


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Offlineunbeliever
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Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Authority of Security Guards [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3875128 - 03/06/05 12:18 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

unbeliever said:
You have no fourth amendment rights in regards to store security. They have the right to search your person for concealed merchandise. From that they have the right to detain you long enough to establish whether you are in possession of store property.




incorrect, security guards have the same rights of detention and search as each
of us do, they cannot detain you without your consent or placing you under a
citizens arrest at which time the have to notify the police that they have taken
you into custody, with out doing this the become liable for false imprisonment
charges which are the equivelent of kidnapping. security guards are civilians
with no power of arrest




Bzzzt. You are wrong about the security guards. If you are on their property they can search your person for stolen property/merchandise. In addition, if in the course of this search they find other illegal items (ie, drugs) they can detain you until police arrive and further more those drugs can be entered into evidence against you in court.

It's all about expectation of privacy which is the crux of the fourth amendment. If you are on their property you do not have any expectation of privacy and thus the security personnel are not restricted by 4th amendment considerations.


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Happiness is a warm gun...


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