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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3878530 - 03/06/05 05:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

yeah, i don't really like em, the green name was enough.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3879251 - 03/06/05 07:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Quote:

BrAiN said:


This type of genre categorization is what leads to repetitive, tastless, unoriginal and bland music that keeps getting cranked out by anyone with two turntables or some for of a DAW.




Well.. ***DUH***...

When someone starts to learn how to play guitar, do you expect them to try STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN as their first song? Or if they want to become a painter do you expect them to learn how to crank out a picasso level piece, immediately? No, you teach them basic chords... you teach them how to sketch beginning shapes.


This kid doesn't even know how to make electronic music... do you expect him to just start cranking out aphex-twin level shit? He's gotta understand the basics first.

I'm saying... making basic techno such as this is a perfect way of helping someone making a crossover from seeing 4/4 music on a regular sheet of paper to envisioning the same sheet music in drum machine format. Most drum machines out there such as reason use the concept of "STEPS" with an interface that gives you 16 physical steps, and the ability to arrange these "measures".

I'm not suggesting the guy make techno, but I think this standard way I just mentioned is perfect for gaining an understanding. When he finally gathers enough perception on how to translate the drum machine's "STEPS" into music, he can start working on stuff with a more involved beat, like jungle, hip hop, etc...


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: BrAiN]
    #3879417 - 03/06/05 08:34 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I have found that trial and error is the best way to learn. It takes hours/days/weeks of fucking up and making crap to really be able to manuever in whatever DAW you use. Just throw some loops on there, or sounds, start arranging them and fiddling with it until you have messed it up. Then try to mix it and shape it back to something tasteful. Its like drawing, i would tell someone, now here is the circle, and here is the line, and if you slide your pencil on its side you get a nice shading technique. I would let them paint,draw and color until it was a brown blob on a peice of paper.


ALSO::::: you can only play as good as you listen. So constantly keep listening to as many types of music and bands as you can, because that only increases your affinity or awareness of all music.


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InvisibleOsker246
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Osker246]
    #3879421 - 03/06/05 08:34 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

hmm ok so I went to guitar center today and started to talk to one of the sells reps. about synths. I had mentioned that I was looking to purchase the Clavia nord lead 3 and right away he had told me it was the worst synth to buy. So he told me about the Access Virus TI and was saying how it blows all other synth stations out of the water. He wasnt trying to make a sale or anything either he was just telling me from his personal experiences. What do you guys think of it? anybody here familiar with it? Heres a link with a video on it. CLICK ME!!

Access Virus TI:


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Middleman]
    #3879446 - 03/06/05 08:40 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Even funnier is the fact that really complex music doesn't sell!

Try to make a song with 5 different melodies in it, I have. It would never sell because it serves no point. You can only listen to one or two melodies at once.

Such is the point with music in general, even the most "complex" music still follows traditional structure and melodic composition. Even aphex twins have a musical background, such is apparent in there works. A great example is the artist "Space Girl," she went to Julliard, the most prestigious music school in the United States. She makes acid hardcore, and now is sorta moving into more tech house.

Just look at Orbital, they went to the best music school in London..............

Besides, you better be able to make music that sounds like everyone else. If you can't then good luck making something that sounds better than it.

If you think your so good, take a song you love and remix it to where it actually sounds better than the original. Have people listen to it online, www.tranceaddict.com is a great site for that as well. You might be surprised at how much time it takes just to learn how to make a good remix. That skill level is rather high for mixing and mastering, let alone the compositional standpoint of adding material that is cohesive with the rest of the song.


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ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3879958 - 03/06/05 10:09 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Osker, i have never used a hardware virus, only a soft synth version, but from the knobs i see on it, it looks like it has about as much as you can handle and will need right now. Check the outputs on it though. Outputs are one of my main criteria for purchasing gear, the more, the better. You want everything from RCA to optical if possible.

Fluxburn: popularity has no bearing on good music. Sure hordes of fans for your hit single may make you think that, but these musicians you named are only placating to the lowest common denominator of listeners. Sure, its great for money,fame, and sex, but how many of the worlds greatest musicians died poor, unknown and with a lot of vaseline?
Im not even serious in the least about the electronica music I make. I do it out of boredom and usually try to find a niche for my soudn designs. I play evil, dark zappa/bungle type music when im serious and with my "band". I would take you up on your offer but anything i make is generally disliked by your average listener. Only when i show it to people who know the complexities of it is it fully appreciated for what it is. Also, John Cage and Phillip Glass have done some out there stuff, sometimes even disregarding actual sound (4 minutes of silence), who have slowly gained a following. I have often thought about just going for the money and selling my soul to become a clear channel whore, even as far as trying to make a christian rock band (thats where the easy money is), but every time i try I get this acidic taste of vomit in my mouth.
Take my favorite band for example: ESTRADASPHERE!!
they are desolate, to the point where the fans are trying to pool together enough money to send them to a music festival, which most of the donators wont even be attending. That is when you can truly feel good about the music you have made and that even though you cant make enough money to cover your tour expenses, your music is that great and your handful of fans are that devoted. If I could ever tell a story like that about some obscure band I was in, I would tell that story 100 times before i ever spoke about playing in front of 30,000 people.
So, yeah, go ahead and cookie cut you albums, make it sound like everyone else and see how far you help advance or contribute music. If people kept thinking the way you do we would still be listening to Gregorian Chants and tetra chords pounded out with fists.


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3880242 - 03/06/05 10:47 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly don't listen to anything a sales person says, ever. All sales is about is selling a product, they never really care about your actual needs or desire.

The virus ti is cool, it actually is "more advanced" then the nl3 because it connects like a soft synth, but you might as well just get a soft synth virus and save the money.

The only reason to buy a synth with knobs on it is you're to lazy to figure out the cc# for the knobs and wire it up virtually in your sequencer program to any damn control keyboard (every midi keyboard) in the world.

Why blow $2000 on something that can have the same damn sound and cost $300??????

It's your money man, I wouldn't waste it.

For instance, I wasted hundred of dollars on really nice monster cables and mogami cables. Honestly unless you are getting them for durability, there is no point. I have these super nice cables and they don't sound any better to justify the cost #1, #2 if the cables really matter then you have to have separate a&d and d&a converters, nice preamp, etc. Those hosa cables are fine, as long as you don't step on them constantly.

You ever checked out guitar centers stock? It's GTRC and go ahead and buy some because it always goes up because some electronic musician thinks the new best product will make them have the best music.

It's an addiction really, always having the new gear or acquiring the most gear you can get. It's called GAS, gear accusation syndrome which is sorta a joke, but not really. Honestly at one point I had so much gear that I wasn't using it all and sold some of it. Unless you 100% us your gear you don't need anymore.

Most gear these days is shit anyways. It is all sample based playback, essential a sampler. Just use a software sampler.

The companies access, clavia, electron have virtual analog for there synth engines. The alesis andromeda has the same thing, a nice one. Some company's make actual analogue hardware, which honestly is getting to the point of the only hardware worth buying these days. Companies like jomox, macbeth actually use analogue components to make really beautiful sounds... which make a korg triton sound like a pathetic joke.

Note to the guy above dissing the commercial music scene: I don't like clear channel either, but then again I like electronic music. Electronic music has no place on clear channel and is almost 100% underground in the united states. It is commercial in europe, spain, england, italy play trance in stores as the commonplace commercial music. Of course it is euro pop trance, which is happy and makes you feel good just like american commerical music.

I like unknown bands, I prefer listening to bands at bars that no one has ever seen and I most likely shall never see again in my entire life. I see your anger is directed at myself, only to see your frustration with the music scene. Yet underground music is easily attainable by going to bars. In realism, this music is far more underground as they never have any recording and only play live.

Honestly I was going to make a career out of music, and it must sound like I still am lol. But I seriously changed paths, but it is so hard to let go with all the knowledge I have attained. Regardless, may you find your place in music and let it help you through life's issues.


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3880592 - 03/06/05 11:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

im not angry, maybe frustrated that some of the worlds most talented musicians cant afford gear rental. I give everything a chance, Ill even listen to the new Brittany Spears album once through before I judge it. I have found hardly any amazing electronica out there. I do visit the underground scenes, and fancy the twilight sessions, but it all seems the exact same 16 beats, repeated for 74 minutes with a chaos pad changing it ever so slightly. The only electronica I have ever seen that blew me away was Cirrus, and that was because it was an actual live band doing some new stuff. Everytime someone says, DOOD you gotta hear this DJ , he is off the wall! it sounds like everything else i have ever heard. Just go into the electronica voice chat rooms to see what I am talkign about.


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InvisibleOsker246
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3880662 - 03/06/05 11:52 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

hmm I see where your are coming from on your view of electronic music and its understandable. But when I listing to alot of Goa/Psy trance I dont really pay attention to the Beats...I pay more attention to the synth melodies of the song. I just let the melody of the song take ahold of me while my body moves to the beat. You should really check out Hallucinogen - Trancepower...you might understand what I mean. If decide to check it out and cant find it let me know I can send it to you.


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3880827 - 03/07/05 12:34 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I used to have the dissatifaction you had. It has left me as I find myself in new music and find music that I have never heard before. Some things like house are surprising, you goto a party and hear some tribal funky house that just hits your soul and is purely amazing. I really like music now more then ever.

Honestly, britney spears sounds really good. Why, I just listen to the mastering and mixing, the reverb tails of the nice lexicon reverb or the tc electronic m3000. Every music has it's place, even the commercial music.

What you lash out on is not the music, but the marketing and social aspect of the music. Most of those songs are written by a professional song writter who's job is to make the songs enjoyable or addictive.

Like who actually doesn't enjoy madonna music or at least have a interest in it? I mean it sure catches you attention with all the issues she addresses.

Or what about those hot country star women, I like the music just because they are hot and want to ride them. I mean come on, you can't ever kill the commercial music scene, might as well live with it and like it for what it is.

It's like the drug laws, just let it go or do your part to help out. I just don't like to beat myself up for no reason.

I mean like britney spears for what she is, a hot sexy babe that every man in america wants to bang. Women idiolize her because every man wants to screw her brains out. It's all subconcious and rarely anyone says, of brintey is hot I want her, but come on it's inside every man that has a penis and some nuts.


Oh and trust me, I have heard hallucinogens work.

Try juno reactor he is fun. He recently worked on the latest matrix soundtrack and made it extra dope.

Psysex is fun and space monkey, astrix, infected mushroom, yahel

and try ddr for acid techno


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


Edited by Fluxburn (03/07/05 12:37 AM)


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InvisibleOsker246
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3880886 - 03/07/05 01:01 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I know I have 2 or so Juno Reactor albums on my computer somewhere, I havent tried listining to them yet though. Hopefully its as good as you make it sound. Ill have to take a look at them in a bit. These artist right now are at the top of my list. Talpa (Talpa is the SHIT!), safi connection, psypilot, Dark Soho, and Violet Vision (this isnt really Psy trance..more of breakbeat), X-dream, fatali, and 1200 micrograms.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3881453 - 03/07/05 04:28 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Like who actually doesn't enjoy madonna music or at least have a interest in it? I mean it sure catches you attention with all the issues she addresses.





*raises hand*

Quote:

I mean like britney spears for what she is, a hot sexy babe that every man in america wants to bang. Women idiolize her because every man wants to screw her brains out. It's all subconcious and rarely anyone says, of brintey is hot I want her, but come on it's inside every man that has a penis and some nuts.





I find Britney Spears entirely unatractive, first because she has no talent and is completely artificial, second because she has saggy tits and third because she is a dumb southern hick. She has no brains to screw out. A completely generic product.

Christina Aguilera however, is some pop i can "get into". Woman has talent and is sexy as hell.


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Offlinelackobreath
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Viveka]
    #3881943 - 03/07/05 10:15 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

These professional song writers you talk about are there to make a commercial product.. what is catchy, what will fit so-and-so's "image" that their record label is trying to market.. honestly it utterly disgusts me personally. People say aphex twin makes complex music just for the sake of being complex, as a pretentious act, and i say that is the spirit of music... personal freedom and expression. people should be making the music they want to hear, not the music they want to sell. just my thoughts.

everyone needs a place to start, like someone mentioned with drawing. you will start out with the fundamentals of shapes unless you're the 99.5 percentile, absolutely gifted and brilliant and can do a complete figure drawing on your first try. the easiest way to learn electronic music is to LISTEN, and emulate. that will teach you how to get the type of sounds that interest YOU. plus it will give you a lot of practice that will benefit you by helping you get your own ideas out and into the hardware and software much faster, which makes the music-making experience MUCH more rewarding and enjoyable...


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3882182 - 03/07/05 12:00 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

bs, music just takes years and years of pratice. If you make electronic music for 20+ years it will kick ass


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3882203 - 03/07/05 12:11 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, I wish I had a picture of me with brintey and all the women pop stars. Straight up I wish I had private porn videos to show my friends and women to impress them even more.


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ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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InvisibleJim
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3882368 - 03/07/05 01:07 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fluxburn said:
All your trinton does is playback samples and apply effects, ADSR, etc. A software sampler does the exact same thing as a hardware synthesizer.




Actually, my triton does a lot more than a shitty computer could. I have weighted keys. As a piano player that is more important than anything else. My triton was well worth the money I put into it. For gigging, a computer setup would not be realistic. How much does a weighted key keyboard cost that has 88 keys? Now how much for a laptop with a good sound card with good outputs? I didn't spend nearly that much on my triton.


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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!

afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3882767 - 03/07/05 02:52 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

it is funny how astral project does there whole live show with a cd player and a mixer, synth just for fun.

Other groups use a lap top as the main controller for the whole show, and they will play a part of a synth from midi send from the computer.

I have a 88 key wieghed synth, you can get one for like $200, a korg T1.

Honestly a laptop with a controller is way more powerful then your trinton. You can have a software sampler and sequencer running and play entire detailed songs and play live software synthesizers from the controller or just tweak the effects or levels live from the controller.

I used to be old school and program on my yamaha ex5, entire songs. Such a waste compared to Cubase Sx, where whole parts can be moved visually with so much ease etc. You have so much vertility with a computer, the possibilities are endless compared to a hardware synth, where options are so limited.

You can build a super powerful pc or buy one these days for $1000 <. A triton 88 key retails new for close to $3,000. You can get some nice dell desktop and a used 88 key controller and a knob box for $1,000 and learn a whole lot more and do a whole lot more then you ever will or could with a trinton.

Seriously, I know what I am talking about. I have read more shit about producing music that I actually find it disgusting myself. All I cared about for years was music, and I have learned the hard way the best way to go about making music.

Get a pimp computer and controller (make shift or nice). They have new controllers all over the place from novation and others that have different numbers for different setups. So you have setup one for controlling the softsynth, two for controlling the mixer, etc.

The only reason for a "triton or any other hardware synth" is to play live without a computer, or to have independent synths for playing multiple parts live and being able to tweak them, or just having a endless amount of money to blow on hardware when the software equivlent is just as good.

Point taken, who the hell would by a virus c for $1,100 used when you can get a Tc electronic Powercore used for $700 and get the virus plugin for it for $300 so a total of $1,000. With the powercore, you have the option of running so much other crap on it, it is like buying 20 pieces of hardware.

So one piece of hardware for $1,000 or 20 pieces of hardware for $1,000.... Hum?

Everyone who has protools runs the TDM virus plugin and sells there hardware since it sounds precisely the same. Everyone, friends and friends of friends, I would too but I don't have protools, ditches their virus hardware for software because it just takes up space and is actually easier to program within the computer.

It's your choice, but if all you do is produce music at home then you don't need any hardware really. I have some hardware, and it is cool for playing live, such as in a dj rig or just doing a live pa. Honestly I would love to sell my nord lead 3 for a software one, and have a extra $800 wouldn't you?

I mean the knobs are nice and keys are nice, and it is designed for performance... so it is cool for playing live right. But you would get 600% more bang for your buck with a $1,100 computer with software.

I only recommend buying synths and stuff just for pure pleasure, since the same effect can be achieved by the computer, if not even better sounding actually. The vast array of effects you can load of a computer sound a whole lot better then the effects of keyboards, lol the nord doesn't even have effects.

The point is: How do you justify spending $3,000 on a new 88 synth controller that is worth less than $2,000 2 years later?
I mean come on, that is worse then a new car. The emu units are ridiculous, $800 when they come out, then $150 a year or two later. That is worth not even 25% of what is was worth new. The whole point is buying new music equipment is a complete and utter ripp of unless you run a studio and need to impress your clients.

Seriously I love new hardware, if it really is actually any good at all, just wait 6-12 months and then buy it used of someone who doesn't want it anymore and enjoy the savings.

The only synths that actually hold value are the elektron units and rare analog synths. Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Novation, Clavia, Access, etc. prices are just all price fixed. I bet they get together and wack each other off and say lets keep the prices high and rip of the musicians who are so retarded when it comes to buying stuff.

I mean you can try to justify the nord lead 3 by its knobs, which are super rad and every synth should have led knobs, but still I would never buy it for $2,600 like it retailed for.


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


Edited by Fluxburn (03/07/05 03:03 PM)


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Offlinelackobreath
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: Fluxburn]
    #3882863 - 03/07/05 03:18 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Sound Forge 7: $399.96
Acid Pro 5: Starting at $299.96
Cakewalk Project5: $289.00
Cakewalk SONAR Studio Edition: $479.00
Fruity Loops: Starts at $49, $99, $149, goes up to $1,000

These are just a few examples... I know you're preaching the greatness of software over hardware, but software isn't exactly cheap either. You wouldn't get much computer if your budget was 1100 and you had to drop a couple or a few hundred on software.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: lackobreath]
    #3883146 - 03/07/05 04:09 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

software can be free...


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OfflineFluxburn
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Re: How do I make electronic music? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3883161 - 03/07/05 04:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Well with student discounts, all the software is cheaper #1, #2 you can use older software and it works just as good.

I have cubase sx2, I see no point in upgrading to 3.
sound forge 4-5-6-7 are about the same thing sorry.
They also have stripped down versions of the big software, like cubase sl, which is fine. I don't even know why I use Sx, when I could use sl.

It is like people buy Nuendo, the $1,200 software above Cubase, $650. These prices are retail, I got cubase sx2 new for like $350. When the guy admits he doesn't just enough of the features to justify the cost.

You can get a damn good full out music program with a student discount for like $200. Also the m-audio audiophile cards rock ass and are only $50 used or $125 new.

If you buy cubase sl or whatever sonar basic version it has a sound editor built in, as well as almost everything else you need. If you are really poor, you can get free sampler programs for drums and synths. Crystal is a free softsynth that sounds great, as well as ambience is a damn good reverb for free or a small donation. You can get samples for free all over then net if you are broke as well. People sell sampled soundsets of the major synths for pennies on ebay or you can even buy a used sound module, sample it yourself and then sell it back on ebay.

Honestly for $1,100 you can have a bitchin computer, sound card and software that totally owns any synth for $1,100 and that is for a used synth. Sorry the all in one keyboards are so outdated now and serve no point. Whoever uses the samplers within a synthesizer have to be crazy compared to the ease of using lets say halion 2. Finally the big synths are getting a effects unit for each of the 16 tracks, but still most don't have that feature. That is the single most important part of any song, reverb and chorus on each and every track. You can do that on a DAW, and easily group tracks with similar reverb settings or just burn the reverb to the track.

Seriously once I got my computer up and running I had a breakthrough with my music. You learn to mix and master, you can explore advanced territory with the power of the Daw. So easy to program drums on a daw, so easy to mess around with samples and get cool effects. You can make the most crazy music with a daw, push the boundries so much farther. So many electronic musicians these days sell all that old hardware and get a nice daw. It is so much more productive in the long run. All you do is load the project, every little setting is ready to be tweaked, every reverb setting, every volume level, every compressor. You can easily remix your song, you can take one line and make a new song, you can do anything with a daw compared to a big all in one synth.

It's over for the all in one synths, and they should take those things of the market. First of all they are so damn heavy, I have a 76 key one and it wieghs almost as much as the 88 wieghted key one when my nord lead 3 wieghs about 15 lbs. The others wiegh at least 70 lbs. Who the hell wants to drag that to a gig? It is just as heavy as huge PA speakers arg. The samplers in those big synths are lame, who ever actually uses it? People use the AKAI samplers since they are so simple with pads to play (i.e. performance oriented) Some people try to be old school and program on those akai saying the timing is better? The computer timing is just as good sorry, human hearing can hear milliseconds but the difference here is like a nano second.

The whole war is the old mindset, Big synths, hardware sequencers Vs. the new mindset, Soft synths, Software sequences and honestly, the longer you stay in the old mindset, you only are slowing yourself down.

I remeber years ago before the softsynth thing became popular this guy at a party having a laptop with reaktor in a first verision. I laughed and thought my hardware synth was better. I wish I would have loved that software synthesizer as I would be 500% farther ahead with music production if I would have caught the bus back then.

Today some of the most power systems in the world are based on Software interfaces with hardware. The system used to make the recent starwars movies, KYMA http://www.symbolicsound.com/
just goes to prove how software OWNS hardware. At least as far as interfaces go, and they only reason they use hardware is because they want a seperate system from the computer. Honestly the fellow students at my college didn't understand why they needed a box with 24 weak chips to run the program and why they couldn't use just the computer. This is just like how digidesign makes you use there hardware with there software now. It is all about forcing the customer to spend the money and be locked in.

Novation K station and V station, first one hardware, second one is software, sound exactly the same.

Regardless, software is here to stay.
The new Virus Ti just goes to show how software is so important. Everyone knows it is easier to see a singal path on a computer. Hell in a computer at least you can arange the singal path, not true in a locked singal path on every synth except the slightly modified signal path of that roland v synth had that capabilitly. So You see the market is shifting towards software, the old midi standard is a goddamn annoying joke at this point. At least yamaha is trying to make the USB standard and get rid of the horrible midi standard. Us electronic musicians still use a 286 instead of the new athlon fx or the p4. It is disgusting to see floppy disks still on new synths, that is just ridiculous. You don't even need a floppy disk on a computer anymore, it's worthless. With email you can just send the file to yourself instead of saving to a retarded floppy disk. I do not have a floppy disk on my desktop, screw outdated products.


--------------------
ABSTRACT ART (Mine) http://nathanbelomy.com


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