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OfflineZekebomb
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unable to reconcile circular with linear
    #3866125 - 03/04/05 03:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

okay, I just erased the whole frikken post. lemme try again:



okay? got it? now here we have a totally unrelated paradigm:



uuh, wait a sec. how is it that you can take the colour wheel, break it right between red and violet, unbend it from a circle to a straight line, and plant it neatly into the electromagnetic spectrum?

granted, a circle is a kind of finite spectrum, if you want to put it in those terms. and what, is the EM spectrum theoretically infinite? ..or are electromagnetic waves actually considered to travel through some medium, and if so, does the medium have some quality of viscosity or graininess that would serve to cap the end(s) of the electromagnetic spectrum?? oh god, who knows.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3866238 - 03/04/05 04:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You're right, they ARE totally unrelated.

The color wheel is a way of laying out the primary and secondary colours in an easy to understand manner. It's not supposed to explain the spectrum.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Phluck]
    #3866282 - 03/04/05 04:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Mornin gentlemen,

Well damn, why don't they make REAL pies like that....?

Ya~ got a slice of:
Cherry
Orange
Lemon
Key Lime
BlueBerry
And, Grape...!    All in ONE PIE....!

Homer Simpson would go ape shyt over a pie like that....!  :grin:

MAYBE, the top picture explains the density of each pie flavor, and shows where each flavor would fall if you were to throw the pie....?  Perhaps it is a Gravitational Pull Chart that got PULLED into the Magnetic section....?  :grin:


ME....


:sun:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Phluck]
    #3866294 - 03/04/05 04:20 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It's not supposed to explain the spectrum.

didn't say it explained the spectrum...

maybe the fact that a circle is so easily formed from a section of a line... when you isolate the visible spectrum from the entire EM spectrum, it snaps into a circle like magnets snapping together... I dunno. doesn't that strike you as a bit odd? something fishy about it?

like, how about elsewhere on the EM spectrum? is there a gamma-ray wheel? is there a wheel made from radiowaves and microwaves, next to each other? is there a wheel from infrared-visible light-unltrviolet?

since the spectrum can be divided and sectioned infinitely, is there an infinite number of wheels to be pulled out of it?

The color wheel is a way of laying out the primary and secondary colours in an easy to understand manner.

true, and also the electromagnetic spectrum is a way of laying out the different frequencies of electromagnetic waves in an easy to understand manner. they are both equally valid ways, right? (kinda like how electromagnetic waves are also considered particles, but never at the same time, and both ways of considering them are equally valid. no one claims that the particle-way of looking explains the wave -way of looking)

all I'm sayin is, wtf

why don't they make REAL pies like that....?

that question has plagued mankind since whoever it was allowed white light to pass through a prism on that fateful day


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Invisiblefearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3866567 - 03/04/05 06:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

visible light are just waves and as the wavelengths gradually change, the colors gradually change too like how red can slowly turn into orange to yellow etc. our eyes and brains can translate the different frequencies into what we know as color. your diagram shows "purple" extending past the visible spectrum and this isnt correct. there are probably "colors" beyond what we can see but we don't translate them into a color.

ultraviolet light is called violet because it's wavelength is just slightly shorter then what we know of as purple. you can't really think of it as having a purple color


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Offlinesoulmotion
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: fearfect]
    #3867476 - 03/04/05 01:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think I understand your question zeke; you're saying: if the EM spectrum is supposed to be a sort of linier thing, why does red seem to blend into purple to create a sort of circlular "color wheel".

Answer: I dunno.

that's kind of an interesting question; I never thought about it before. I'll think about that for a little bit and come back if I have an answer.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3867480 - 03/04/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There is no spoon.


--------------------


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Silversoul]
    #3867513 - 03/04/05 01:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Phluck]
    #3867530 - 03/04/05 01:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You are looking at two different things.

The spectrum of electromagnetic radiation represents the various wavelengths of photons in space. Of the entire spectrum, we can see a small sliver, which we call visible light. This is the realm of physics.

The color wheel represents the mixing of colors and how they are perceived by the human eye. This is in the realm of biology.

The color wheel wouldn't be the same for a human and a dog, but the spectrum would still be the same.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Seuss]
    #3871484 - 03/05/05 03:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I can clear this up.

You ever watch the rim of a car in the other lane, and at first it appears to be rotating forward, then as it speeds up it stops rotating, then it starts rotating backwards? Well the it's the same effect.

The RHYTHMS of the wavelenghts overlap and create the illusion of continuity. Lets say that you have a wave A, frequency is 1 cycle per second (1 Hz) and then you have two other waves; the second wave B has frequency .39 Hz and the third wave C has frequency .50 Hz. Since 1 is easily divided by .50, frequencies A and C will "line up" twice for every cycle of A. Whereas 1 is not so easily divided by .39, so A and B will still "line up", but it will not be as often or as continuously as A and C. It just has to do with whole number ratios...

I hope this made sense. If it didn't, you can ask me to explain it better or just tell me to shut up.


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: dr0mni]
    #3873023 - 03/05/05 03:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The RHYTHMS of the wavelenghts overlap and create the illusion of continuity. ... It just has to do with whole number ratios...

that's good, the car-wheel thing, but. Can anyone verify that red and violet have this nice neat whole-number ratio? and if they indeed do, wouldn't the following quote negate that?

seuss: The color wheel wouldn't be the same for a human and a dog, but the spectrum would still be the same.

so (assuming dogs can see a different chunk of the electromangetic spectrum than we can) do dogs have their own colour wheel? or does it not line up as neatly as ours?

You are looking at two different things.

am I? are you saying the colours from the EM spectrum are different from the colours in the colour wheel? Aren't they the exact same colours, just arranged differently?

bees also can apparently see ultraviolet and stuff. do they have a colour wheel too?

I assume the chunk of the EM spectrum humans can see is somehow the most useful to us in our day-to-day life, otherwise natural selection would have changed it to something else. same with bees and what they can see. I just wonder, does any chunk of the spectrum arrange itself into a wheel in some magical way? how does this happen if so?

* * * * *

as a side note, dr0mni: You ever watch the rim of a car in the other lane, and at first it appears to be rotating forward, then as it speeds up it stops rotating, then it starts rotating backwards?

that's weird, to me it seems to imply that my eyeball has a specific frames-per-second. which it of course does not. how the hell does that effect work?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3873329 - 03/05/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

well I'm guessing that the color wheel would be different for different animals, but it would still overlap. Bees for instance can see UV lights, so there would just be a bigger overlapping.

Keep in mind that PERCEPTION of colors is entirely dependent on the psysiology of the animal. Some brains are only designed to see wavelenghts that are neccessary for survival. Just because we can't percieve UV and IR light doesn't mean that it doesn't enter our eyes and affect our brains.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3873341 - 03/05/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

oh, and I'm not sure about the actual frequencies of the light, but if you want to check it out there are definitely ways to do it.

frequency (in cycles/second)= speed of light/wavelength (in meters)
wavelength (in meters)= speed of light/frequency

speed of light = ~3*10^8 meters/second

get to work!


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3873351 - 03/05/05 05:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Zekebomb said:
as a side note, dr0mni: You ever watch the rim of a car in the other lane, and at first it appears to be rotating forward, then as it speeds up it stops rotating, then it starts rotating backwards?

that's weird, to me it seems to imply that my eyeball has a specific frames-per-second. which it of course does not. how the hell does that effect work?




well you're brain does have "frames per second" in a manner of speaking. I don't know a whole lot about it, but I always notice how my "frames per second" seem to increase when I'm tripping, and thats why everything has more detail, and is more fluid and continuous including thoughts...


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: dr0mni]
    #3873378 - 03/05/05 05:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the linear one shows wavelengths of pure emissions from below red (infra red and heat) to colored light which starts with pure red then yellow and finally blue beyond blue is indigo not purple and then invisible UV and higher electormagnetic frequencies or progressively shorter wavelengths.

the other 16 million colors that we can see are mixes of pure light emissions and reflections and to understand mixing use the wheel: red orange yellow green blue (which you can see in a rainbow due to mixes, and in multiple rainbows you will see blue of one band purple and red of the next band

so both are useful, the wheel is about hwo the pure colors mix (primaries) and the line is about progressively shorter wavelenths (and higher frequencies) for the pure emissions of EM specturm


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: unable to reconcile circular with linear [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3873396 - 03/05/05 05:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

oh and the breaking up of hub cap patterns and strobey things like that do pertain to visual frames - sort of
we do see in composited visual frames
not quite frames persecond like film or video
and not quite frames per se either
more like partial field frames:
we see little chips of color pixel groups (about one every 60th of a second) and we patch about 30 of them into a single "seamless" moving brain image some at hi-res and some at low res.
what you see as disjointed spokes in the hubcap are parts of the motion that will not blend seamlessly - so you are seeing visual system glitches, and that is more marvelous to watch than the mpeg fallout of sattelite TV.


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