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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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Offlinemiltonerickson
Stranger
Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 6
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
CONTEST!! A New type
    #386592 - 09/05/01 11:41 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

**********************this*post*is*worth*reading********************************

Lets Play a Game, I Tell you What I Did, You Tell Me how To Improve IT And What i May Have Done Wrong ( this will benefit both you and me and everyone reading, a great learning experence all around)

And The Winners (intelligent posters offering sound advice that leads to a succefull crop) Get An Amazing Prize:
Free Spores, no, Money, Not quite, A paid vaction anywhere in the World, Getting Closer.

What you Get is: All the postive energy that i can summon forth in a Neo shamanic mushroom induced psuedo-ritual. This energy will then broadcast into your life. So you mean i get nothing? Well if you dont beleive in energy and the power of ritual and so forth, then yes you get nothing, after all if you cant touch or see or sell something then it doesnt really exist, right?

So Play Along, There Are No Losers, only Winners (no limit on winners)

Living at with my parents i year or two ago i attemped growing mushrooms using pf tek, but cutting many corners, using tupperware, boiling instead of pc ect. I only made up 4 cakes, 2 made it and i did get quite a few grams of mushrooms.

Jump to Present, decided to try again. Thought if i follow directions perfectly i should get a higher success rate. WRONG. And on with the story
I ordered 4 syringes from ryche , equador, bought everything i needed, even a p cooker, could not find verm so, decided to go with 9er tek. While i waited for the spores to arrive i practiced cooking the rice and getting in to the right consitancy so that it was nice an airy with no mush in the bottom, got that down to a tee. Punched holes in the tops of the wide mouth pint jars i used filled holes tightly with polyfill.

Rice Cooking:
I had 24 pint jars to fill so i bought quite alot of brown rice. Cooked in batches big enuff to fill about 3 jars, much bigger and i ran into problems with the rice getting all sticky by the the time i filled the last few. Once filled and looking just like pic in 9er tek:
http://hippie31.tripod.com/ninertek/main.html
i wiped down inside 1/2 inch with a bleach and water soaked dish cloth, Then filled the top portion with stuffed with pollyfill and put on lids (the ones with polyfilled holes), then tighten as much as i could, seal down, and finally cover tops with some tinfoil, two layers.

Sterilizing:
Only four fit at a time into the pressure cooker :( First four went in for 45 minutes of solid steaming then 30 minutes of cooling. Opened PC to find that i forgot tinfoil on these ones, damn, two looked kinda mushy, other two looked as when started. Due to time constrantaints the reamaining 20 were pc for 30 minutes then left into untill pressure went down(they all had tinfil on top). All jars once out of pc were put into a sterile(lysoled) box(the one they came in) which went inside a sterile(lysoled) garbadge bag which was sealed( opening melted closed with lighter)

Note: During above phases, i wore a dusk mask, clean clothes, room mainly sealed, no ac on, lysol in the air. Only prob i see is that jars werent allowed to cool in pc but that thakes 6- 12 hours making this procedure a week long event, also pc time could have been longer?? mmgg says 20 minutes some say 60 some 90, and yes i put a cloth in the bottom

Inoculation:
The following day, Room lysoled, dusk mask, ect, pretty much same as above. Used the open oven idea when inoculating the first 8 or so but i got too hot, and felt it unnecceary due to polyfill. 1 to 1 1/2 cc total spread over 4 inject holesper jar wre injected. Tried to makes a drip of spore solution that slid down the glass of the jar to bottom like stated in 9er tek, flame sterilzed after every jar. used 2 1/2 10-11ml syringes on 22 jars, 2 mushy ones from above not done. All jars put back in boxes and bags as per above, all re lysoled, left in closet un touched.

Incubation:
To try to boost up the temp a bit i but a big black t-shirt over the boxes and dangled a 300w bulb about 6 inches above this, which stayed on for a couple hours at a time, heat never really seemed to transfer to jars, but tshirt sometimes got quite hot.

Bad News Hits Home
After 4 days my curisoty got the best of me, i open up one box to take look, What i saw i did not like, It smelt sour in the box and at every injection point of most jars, excatly where the spore water had ran down the side of the jar, there was a nice colum of bateria growth, only 6 jars did not have this growth and i beleive they may have small amounts of it, i just can quite tell yet. THe weird thing, the 2 jars i didnt innoculate have no bateria growth whatsoever. This of course leads me to beleive that the innoculation step introduced the bateria, is it that the extra water added made a more favorable enviroment for bateria growth, bad syringe batch? Have i missd something entirely? Did i cut some corner i shouldnt have? Any one got any ideas on how to Tweak my version of 9er? Low tek Incubation Teks? Basically, i have 1 and one half spore syringes left and want to know what to do next time to make this work, i will probably use one in next attemp and save 1/2 syringe for honey tek cause ireally cant affrod more and need to get this to work, so that will give me lots of innoculant, to play with

About The Poster
The Poster(thats me) is the poster child for the information age. He loves to devour all types of infoRmation and apply thEm to his own life and is currently Practising dIfferent forms of energY manifestaion and transmition along with what some ppl might consider magick but what is reallY just what science has yet to explain, He also has interests in other areas,his name gives a clue to one such area. All these intersts he draws together into his own brand of neo shamanic ritual. Posting an intelligent responce to this post will allow you (and me) to experence some of the power of ritualized energy "magick" Which is really just the power of setting a powerful intent and beleiving in it 100% (That, my friends, is the biggest secret of "magick", never forget it)

***********************You*Should*reply*to*this*post****************************



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Offlinefiddler4u
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Registered: 08/20/01
Posts: 282
Loc: Where the shrooms are gre...
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #386603 - 09/05/01 11:55 PM (15 years, 3 months ago)

WOW!
Never really got into the 9tek, but i don't like the idea of using bleach to clean the top portion of jars. Maybe others do....but i don't! 300w 6" above sounds alittle close to me(although heat rises). Did you clean the jars before you used them?
I'm I a winner :)

I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me, and I in him, he will bare much fruit.
Apart from me you can do nothing. john 15:5


--------------------
I am the vine, you are the branches. If a man remains in me, and I in him, he will bare much fruit.
Apart from me you can do nothing. john 15:5


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Offlinemiltonerickson
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Registered: 09/05/01
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Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: fiddler4u]
    #386782 - 09/06/01 04:01 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

The jars were brand new, so no i didnt clean them,i didnt think it was necceray, there was only a small amount of bleach in the water, just used it to get all the rice gunk off, none actually got on the substrate. The bulb was only on for a couple hours at a time cause i would get scared i would overheat them but really only the t-shirt and the top layer of cardboard on the box got hot, it never really seemed to heat the jar much at all, well maybe the lids. maybe this slight heating and cooling cause air to expell from the jar and than new unclean air to enter, i dont know. Howeverthe rice all went bad at the exact spots where the sporewater went, so i think that has something to do with it. And i also suspect that maybe the substrait was too wet, although it looked like the pic 9er provivded maybe the rice was overly plump with water, yet still not sticky?

Are You a Winner, if your advice helps my next growing attempt become success full than your helpful knowledge will be repaid, as the wiccans says, thricefold
It should be noted however that advice of what to do next time is just as or more helpful than speculation about what may have been the problem



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Offlinesylo
addict
Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 219
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #386795 - 09/06/01 04:47 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

This is not the problem but your sterile technique sounds like overkill. Brown rice is loaded with all the worst kinds of hard to sterilize endospores so, even if you prepare your substrate in a cow barn, you will not be introducing any contams to the mix that are worse than what you already have. There is no need for sterility BEFORE the jars are sterilized...only after. Also flaming the needle when inoculating can cause more problems than it prevents. Using an alcohol swab to wipe the needle or doing nothing at all is better. Your PC methods sound adequate and sterilizing with dilute bleach is a good way to go.
You are right that a high moisture content in the substrate can help promote the spread and growth of bacteria. Dry is better. Higher incubation temps also promote bacteria. Cultivation at room temp or less helps prevent contams but expect slow colonization.
Not to fault Ryche, but I suspect your problem was contaminated syringes. It is nearly impossible to prepare a totally clean syringe. Some teks like PF with verm are designed to deal with a few contams. Pure grain teks are very unforgiving. Honey tek is even worse.
You can save yourself a lot of trouble and expense in the future if you buy a small bag of agar and learn to work with agar. Save your last syringe for your first batch of agar.



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Invisiblepuscle
genius of love
Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #386835 - 09/06/01 06:49 AM (15 years, 3 months ago)

I PC my pints for an hour and let them cool in there. My 9-er Tek variation, 2 parts rice cooked in 2 parts water, add 1 part vermiculite after cooking. I also use a verm seal in addition to polyfill.

Edited by puscle on 09/06/01 07:53 AM.



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InvisibleNDK
member
Registered: 07/13/01
Posts: 186
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: puscle]
    #386862 - 09/06/01 08:49 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I think you fell into the same trap again by not going with the tek as was written. Look harder to find vermiculite - it is on sale on the net. The just do the MMGG to the letter.





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Anonymous

Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: NDK]
    #386890 - 09/06/01 10:01 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Ya, lots of overkill in your tek. For instance, you don't have to let your jars cool in the pc, they can sit on the counter. And I find no use in wraping them in foil. Just tighten the lids. You don't want steam gettting in the jar and soaking your substrate.

Take a trip to the Spore Lab @:
http://www.SporeLab.com
email: getspores@sporelab.com


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Offlinemiltonerickson
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Registered: 09/05/01
Posts: 6
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #387142 - 09/06/01 06:05 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

i know there is lots of overkill in the tek i used, but i thought it couldnt hurt, i just wanted a good success rate, which i didnt get, no verm around here cause of ebspetos(sp?) scare or something. But if i repeat the 9er tek what steps should i take to insure i dont have a bacteria problem. Adding verm to the rice sounds good to dry it up, but i cant easily get any of that, or at least i would prefer to resolve my problem without having to buy some of the internet cause of lack of credit card, exchage and s+h making it a hassel. The polyfill filled holes and the polyfill layer on the top seem to me to be better at keeping stuff out than would a verm seal, but bacteria are really small so these layers arent meant to keep bacteria out, just spores or what? Next time i will definatley have a better incubation set up, but i dont think the jars were over heated, maybe the heat of the bulb drew bateria to that area?? So do you think if dry up my substate(even though in looks like 9ers) and incubate better(like constant 80 degrees in a cooler), bacteria shouldnt be much of a prob?? Thanks for the intelligent posts guys.



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OfflineGiga_Funk
member
Registered: 08/10/01
Posts: 127
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: ]
    #387147 - 09/06/01 06:09 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't the foil-wrapped-around-the-lid deal there in order to keep steam from getting into the jar(thru inoc holes),and if you take the jars out of the pc too soon(like while there is still pressure) wont the water boil (due to the decreased pressure)out of the jars? Overkill?I know its bad to sterilize what needs pastuerized, but he isnt useing anything that needs pasturized,right? What is bad about sterility over kill?extra work? i relize after succesive generation MAYBEE you may acciedently breed a hyper-sensitive strain, but for the first time with limited spore resources, i recommend over-kill...isnt 10 more min. worth not ordering more syringes...

Did you let the needle cool after you flame sterilized,brother?thats all i can think of...but im no expert...

When tripping and frolicking with unicorns, do NOT,under ANY circumstance, let them persuade you to play the innocent childrens game "leapfrog"


--------------------
I believe in magick


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Offlineelmerfud
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Registered: 06/22/01
Posts: 7
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #387157 - 09/06/01 06:19 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

this is what i did, simple as hell and i cut a lot of corners like you did on your batch a while ago. wash jars with warm soapy water before sterilizing, mix substrate, sterilize in large pot for 45 minutes, let cool, turn oven on lowest heat and pull out one of the trays, inoculate jars on the tray (i just took the lids off instead of innoculating through little holes), put lids back on, put in warm place. no contamination, just beautiful mycelium.



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Invisiblepuscle
genius of love
Registered: 01/07/01
Posts: 4,539
Loc: NY
Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: Giga_Funk]
    #387164 - 09/06/01 06:25 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Thankyou, G_F. Max, get a clue. These are legit problems we face down here. You speak of overkill, but our problems persist and reccur.



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Offlinesylo
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Registered: 10/30/00
Posts: 219
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Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #387705 - 09/07/01 06:28 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Either verm or polyfill is a good filter for keeping bacteria out. Bacteria in the air are attracted to dust particles so anything that filters out dust filters out bacteria. If all the bacteria in the jars are killed by pressure cooking, there should be no problem with bacteria entering the jars except during inoculation. This is the only time when sterility is critical. Some teks with verm, such as PF Tek, can tolerate a moderate load of bacterial contams if there are any bacteria in the syringe but, if you are using something unforgiving like the 9er Tek or Honey Tek with a contaminated syringe, you are SOL.



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Offlinemiltonerickson
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Registered: 09/05/01
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Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: sylo]
    #387956 - 09/07/01 02:54 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Its been 7 days and the 2 jars that were not inoculated or incubatred show no bacteria, so bacteria was introduced either during inoculation or inccubation. So since rice is cheap i think im going to repeat the preceedure but not incubate them with the light, then if i get a bacteria prob again, i can assume there is a problem with the syringes and contact ryche. Thanks for the advice guys l'll keep you informed on my progress. And when i get a crop, i'll repay all the posters who tryed to help me out with my problem



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Offlinesylo
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Re: CONTEST!! A New type [Re: miltonerickson]
    #388526 - 09/08/01 05:55 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You were smart in not inoculating all of the jars and keeping some as controls. Uninoculated jars are not wasted. You can save them and use them later.



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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Brown Rice Flour, Pressure Cooker, Vermiculite

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