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OfflineJon
Registered: 06/28/03
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God vs Infinity
    #3865249 - 03/03/05 11:38 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

We can doze our minds off to thinking there is a God above God, and above that God another God, and another, and another, and another, and another,...........

We can go on forever but one thing we cant do is try to define an existence of a force above all without existence at all. Some people like to define God as "Infinite power" but that doesnt sound right in this case. Any opinions?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3865296 - 03/03/05 11:48 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

God is "that than which nothing greater can be thought" (Anselm).

There is nothing greater than God. He/she/it is at the top of being.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: shroomydan]
    #3865322 - 03/03/05 11:52 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

God... a determination of nothing more then an ideal. Man grew tired of his lack of an ability to explain all, to justify all, to have complete power. As part of his egoistic nature... various cultures have come to the cunclusion (or is it a delusion).. that if man himself cannot control it, and man has dominion over so much, perhaps their has to be something 'greater' then he himself. Perhaps god lies in our assertion of our ideals.. perhaps god is an ideal, perhaps man seeks an ideal for he knows that he is unable to become such an ideal.

Perhaps... god is the ability to suggest the irritating and irreconcilable notion of "Perhaps" and nothing more.

Perhaps I'm wrong though.

Food for thought.


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OfflineJon
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3865583 - 03/04/05 12:53 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

God is our assumption goin beyond our human minds limitations. I believe the minds limit is infinity, and infinity is the only description of our capabilities do be dominating. We are supreme because we can think of something going on forever. But then, we become arrogant over the fact that our minds limitation, is existence's limitation. But when someone realizes how weak our minds our compared to the possibility of something beyond our minds understanding to exist, we make that possibility God, and I chose that as a belief rather then a possibility, because I have nothing to lose.


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OfflineShrooomKing
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3865885 - 03/04/05 02:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I have always thought GOD is the infinite. You can only imagine what it's like, but never really touch it.


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A driver knows that it is not the road that is his biggest obstacle, rather it is the poles.
A great driver understands, the poles will always be there, and he must learn to adjust.

I can't keep doing this on my own... with all these... people. -daniel plainview


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OfflineMAGnum
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3866700 - 03/04/05 07:39 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

When God creates, God pours Godself into the creation. The cosmos is infinate because God is infinate. God and all are inseparable; Exsistance itself is God. The cosmos is very much alive this is how I define God.


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: MAGnum]
    #3866720 - 03/04/05 08:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Is your question whether or not God is something more tangible and 'existent' than "infinite power"? From an absolutely fundamental perspective I'd say he is just that, infinite energy, or infinite consciousness, because fundamentality is subtle. But God exists on all planes simultaneously. Look at it this way...you can't have a relationship with a rock because it isn't alive. We are physical beings and we are all meant to have a relationship with God, so God must exist somewhat tangibly on the physical plane. Much like the sun, its physical aspect is only a minute part of its being when you consider its rays that permeate all. So yes, one of God's facets is physical in nature.

After all, we were made in His/Her image.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3866729 - 03/04/05 08:28 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

These are both "concepts"......"God" and "Infinity".


Lets start at the bottom and work our way up.......


Level 1

In our "world" we humans are "god". We are the sole rulers/caretakers of "Planet Earth". No other creatures on the planet have the power to create/destroy that we humans do.
We are not yet perfect gods by any means. Our spirit is evolving tho, to become more perfect and with continued incarnations can attain the next "level" of "godship".

Level 2

Some humans can perceive a "higher power" that we call "God". This is nothing more than the "collective conscience" of the "Whole Planetary System".

This pretty much where our "perception" of god ends, but it doesn't end there......


Level 3

Above the "Earth conscience" (which we are part of) their is a "Galactic Conscience" that is watching over our galaxy. WE are so "unevolved" that we cant perceive this level of conscience.

Level 4

This is where the levels get kinda sketchy. Does the conscience go to "universal/infinite conscience".......I'm sure it has MANY levels that we 'humans' cant even begin to conceive.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
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OfflineGomp
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3866981 - 03/04/05 10:43 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

possibilities.

God as "finite power" of infinity? :wink: ha ha


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Gomp]
    #3867094 - 03/04/05 11:24 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
God as "finite power" of infinity?





YES!


Thats it. God is NOT "all powerful". He/It (i prefer GreatSpirit) is a part of the system. Bound by the same "natural laws". Not above them.


The "christians" and other uberReligious people have a hard time with the "theory" of a "God" that is not "All Powerfull"


"God" is not ....."Out side the System"....

This GreatSpirit is an integral part of the system.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


Edited by niteowl (03/04/05 11:27 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: niteowl]
    #3867126 - 03/04/05 11:38 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

we are all, "all powerful".. :P


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: niteowl]
    #3867165 - 03/04/05 11:50 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Thats it. God is NOT "all powerful". He/It (i prefer GreatSpirit) is a part of the system. Bound by the same "natural laws". Not above them.




How about a little clarification on this. It seems your saying that the laws of nature are superior to God, if this is the case, then God did not create the laws of nature; where did they come from?

Most people when they think 'God' think the source of all being. If your god is limited by the laws of nature, then he clearly is not also the source of those same laws.

Your god is not God.


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Offlineexclusive58
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: shroomydan]
    #3867225 - 03/04/05 12:21 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

here's a theory,

"god" is the origin of the big bang because god needed to create a new universe in order to evolve more, and each universe is created based on different genes that make up these "natural laws". With different genes comes different lawz of nature, and with different laws of nature comes different ways for god to experience itself(consciousness). We are beings of this universe meant to experience reality in order to learn and gain wisdom from it. At one point we might evolve to become spiritual beings and experience different realms of reality, until we reach a point, a dimension where all consciousness unifies and becomes god. At this point, we will have enough power to create a new big bang and enough knowledge to create new genes for a new universe made up of different natural laws, this is how i think evolution works. my big question is where does it lead to?

as to where infinity fits into all of this, i have no idea. why do we have a concept of a limit anyways? where the hell did that come from? its like if it was something we made up because the concept of infinity is a bit scary.

Lets just sy that God Infinity is something in between finite and infinite, its above these two concepts... :wink:


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Offlinedeafpanda
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: shroomydan]
    #3867280 - 03/04/05 12:46 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Then my "god" is not god, thank god. I see no reason or evidence for intervention from a divine being, I find it much more intuitive and elegant that a "god" creates natural laws and then feels no need to break them to do it's "will" (I also don't believe that a god would have a will, I think we project too many of our human qualities onto it). I believe in a "divine watchmaker", if anything.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3867335 - 03/04/05 01:01 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

> we cant [...] define an existence of a force above all without existence at all.

Assuming logic and dualistic thinking, then you are correct. However, it is possible to experience non-dualistic thought, or satori - enlightenment - egoloss. When this happens, it is possible to experience no existence at all.

> Some people like to define God as "Infinite power" but that doesnt sound right in this case.

Infinity is a mad-made concept, not a thing.


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OfflineJon
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Seuss]
    #3867445 - 03/04/05 01:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I believe non existence is the limitations of the mind. I cant really say I had a Satori or Samadhi enlightenment experience concretely, partly because I was under the influence of drugs, but I experienced something similar. But I think thats the minds vague conclusion, there is nothing, nothing is nothing, the truth of existence is there is no existence. I like to describe it as a feeling without senses, and it was a very scary feeling for me, but I learned much from it. I myself cannot conclude with the non-existant spirituality concept (No eyes, no ears, no nose, no hands, no shape) I just dont think its enough, I think this is the minds defense against feuding over the origin of existence, by saying existence is non-existant. So from there I just lean against another power.


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #3867772 - 03/04/05 02:50 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jon said:
I believe non existence is the limitations of the mind. I cant really say I had a Satori or Samadhi enlightenment experience concretely, partly because I was under the influence of drugs, but I experienced something similar. But I think thats the minds vague conclusion, there is nothing, nothing is nothing, the truth of existence is there is no existence. I like to describe it as a feeling without senses, and it was a very scary feeling for me, but I learned much from it. I myself cannot conclude with the non-existant spirituality concept (No eyes, no ears, no nose, no hands, no shape) I just dont think its enough, I think this is the minds defense against feuding over the origin of existence, by saying existence is non-existant. So from there I just lean against another power.



Before existence there was non-existence. Existence arises from non-existence. Tangible conventionality arises from subtle fundamentality, so subtle that it cannot be perceived, that, from our physical perspective, it is non-existent. All planes of reality exist simultaneously, and you experienced one much higher, much more fundamental, than the physical plane. But that doesn't mean it's true and this physical reality is false, for they exist simultaneously. Were this physical reality in truth completely non-existent then it wouldn't exist at all in the first place and we wouldn't perceive/experience it at all in the first place. You can't examine the nature of something in isolation for everything is interdependent...if you consider non-existence then you must also consider existence. As opposites like black and white are joined by the colour spectrum, existence and non-existence are joined by the Ineffable.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: shroomydan]
    #3867818 - 03/04/05 02:58 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
Quote:

Thats it. God is NOT "all powerful". He/It (i prefer GreatSpirit) is a part of the system. Bound by the same "natural laws". Not above them.




How about a little clarification on this. It seems your saying that the laws of nature are superior to God, if this is the case, then God did not create the laws of nature; where did they come from?





"God" in the 'classic' term is "The creator of the universe".....another way to say it is "God IS the universe".

Their one in the same....connected.


"God" also has different levels of conscience. (this part is hard to get)

If we were to encounter a civilization that is in the "Stone Age", they would percieve us as "Gods". Even tho we dont see ourselvs as a "God". The term still fits.

That would be an 'example' of "God 101"...WE are an incarnation of "God"....(God 101)


Now for what WE consider to be "God" clearly is not a singular person that you could shake hands with. It is a spiritual being, not a physical one.

(This is where our ignorence comes in to play)

What we "percieve" as "God" is only the 2'nd level. "God 201" if you want. This is only the "spirit" of our "Living Planet" or the "GreatSpirit". We can just barely "sense" the GreatSpirit, and then only if we try. Not everyone can hear It.

We think that this 201 god is it. The top of the "God" ladder.


Wrong.


Their is another level of "Spiritual Awarness" over the "GreatSpirit" of earth. Call it what you will. (God 301 ? ) This level of "Godliness" is beyond our perception.

This "God Evolution" my go on for "Infinity".....we will never know.



Quote:

shroomydan said:
Most people when they think 'God' think the source of all being. If your god is limited by the laws of nature, then he clearly is not also the source of those same laws.




"I am the Alpha AND Omega.....the Begining and End"


The "Gods" are bound by the natural laws that they/it has evolved into.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Offlinedoufus
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Re: God vs Infinity [Re: Jon]
    #4866445 - 10/29/05 09:46 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jon said:
We can doze our minds off to thinking there is a God above God, and above that God another God, and another, and another, and another, and another,...........

We can go on forever but one thing we cant do is try to define an existence of a force above all without existence at all. Some people like to define God as "Infinite power" but that doesnt sound right in this case. Any opinions?




God: Everything that exists, has ever existed, will ever exist,or never exist, seen, unseen, never seen, every thought, hope, whisper in this universe and all others, beyond time, before time, the one, the one without a second, the source, the utter, silent singularity of infinite possibilities and the echo of nothing.


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