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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Public Sex and Nudity
#3858213 - 03/02/05 04:22 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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So gomp was telling me about a show on the Discovery Channel where public sex was the norm in Ancient Egypt.
So how did it go from public to private activity anyway?
How do all feel about it if it became legal to have sex in public as well as public nudity and the issue of women nursing in public?
I'd like to hear pros and cons and concerns and considerations. I posted this here as it may have moral implications for some and falls under a way of life philosophy.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Personally, I'm all for nudity. If men can go bareback, women should too.
Remember, it started with those damn leaves.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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what about bare assed and public sex?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Sure.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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a Norwegian couple had sex on the stage at the 'roskilde' festival in Denmark 'me thinks', something like that at lest, .. the got fined, and all that.
I'm really unsure even where I'm at tight now,. but i think its legal to breastfeed in public here in Norway, yet making the baby in public, is not.. its kinda is a two timer isn't it?
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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deafpanda
Stranger
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It should all be legal in public. Even golden showers.
So long as they clean up after themselves, otherwise they should face a fine for littering
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deafpanda
Stranger
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It should all be legal in public. Even golden showers.
So long as they clean up after themselves, otherwise they should face a fine for littering
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: deafpanda]
#3858410 - 03/02/05 04:50 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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So, you would be okay doing that in front of your young children? I'm not judging, just wondering why our culture is so different from others and ancient ones in this respect and why considering, we still have sex and what not. Wondering how many are open to the idea and just go along with the current laws and norms and any thought or comment that comes to mind on the subject.
I know I think its ludicrous women have been ticketed for breast feeding in public for indecent exposure here in the USA. Not sure how I feel about the rest now that I have a daughter. Before I was a parent, well.........................
What if we grew up with it being as natural and normal as eating in public?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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This culture is stoned retarded when it comes to sexuality.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Let me throw this one into the mix. Refer back to childhood and imagine your parents and granparents having sex in the back yard, or living room in the afternoon as casual about it as eating strawberries.
Children imitate adults as a part of their normal development. Is this a consideration? Would they end up having healthier attitudes about their own sexuallity or end up troubled?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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It sure would make finding porn easier.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3858507 - 03/02/05 05:09 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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LOL,
Maybe I will insert a poll into the first post. Why don't we make animals do it in private? Children raised on farms see animals do it all of the time. Whats the difference between them witnessing the animals versus humans?
Is it like Zad said, that somewhere along the way we covered ourselves with a blanket of shame?
I'm beginning to wonder if we have all been royally brainwashed on this topic of public nudity and sex. The "professionals" say it is extremely damaging to a child's psyche and sexuality. Could it be the other way around?
I remember reading that in cultures where there was no taboo or shame placed upon the human body and sex that sex crimes were non existent.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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This is where Western culture becomes somewhat inept in terms of sexual philosophy. When it comes to the subject of sex and children, it seems nothing but hysteria follows.
Public sex though is one thing, and probably a frontier for years from now. Public nudity is another. My dog used to hump a stuffed animal of mine silly. But when he did it, he dragged it into a room where no one was in because my dad would give him a boot if he did it in front of the humans.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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To each his own, but personally I don't want my "package" flopping all over the place. Also when you get a hard-on it's much easier to hide when you're clothed. ~shwing!~
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
My dog used to hump a stuffed animal of mine silly. But when he did it, he dragged it into a room where no one was in because my dad would give him a boot if he did it in front of the humans.
Funny! Great Story!
So where does the hysteria come from? Is it legitimate? How did ancient cultures get on with it being the norm and I think it still is in aboriginal cultures today.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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As RAW said, sexual norms differ in respect to time and place, but one thing is always true in every culture: Sexuality shall not go unregulated!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Religion? Culture? Culture in the dying grips of religion?
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3858573 - 03/02/05 05:19 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Who or what is RAW?
How does everyone feel about something so natural and normal for a human to be regulated by other humans?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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RAW = Robert Anton Wilson. Think older version of Swami who was/is a famous author.
Something as important as sexuality must be regulated to some degree IMO, but the fewer regulations the better.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3858626 - 03/02/05 05:28 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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What sort of regulations do you think are necessary and why? I ask because the animals are not regulated by anything but nature. Why do we need some form of it?
I'm just really questioning how all of the current regulation came to be, I mean nursing mothers getting fined. Do you know congress actually tried to pass a law to make thong underwear showing from hipsters illegal?
Do human beings need all this regulation and is it serving us for the better and how or is it to our detriment and how?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Another question. What is the benefit to the parties doing the regulating? Of course its a combo of religion, government and mental health proffesionals.
What do they all have to gain by making us keep it covered and private, our bodies and sexuality that is?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Americans and sexuality is even funnier.
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tomk
King of OTD
Registered: 09/22/04
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Loc: PNW
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Another place gays have straights beat. Ever heard of cruising. You go to a park, find a guy, make eye contact, go into the woods, and he blows you. Then you say goodbye and go home.
-------------------- "I am eternally free"
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deafpanda
Stranger
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: tomk]
#3858682 - 03/02/05 05:40 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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I think people have a right to fuck in public. I don't think people have a right to legislate against public sex, whether they think it's right or not.
If children see it, great. Save a bit of sex education. Children should know about sex as soon as they know about any sort of science. Lying to children in the name of morality is ludicrous.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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No doubt, "the land of the brave and the free" is by far the most repressed and in fear of sexuality and nudity. It is funny.
What message does it send to children as they are growing up. Think about it, its hidden and posed as something bad wrong and shameful, maybe even dirty and disgusting ( depending on the parents) and then they turn 18 and are suppose to have normal healthy sex lives and feel comfortable with their sexuality and bodies?
What about kids being told to keep their "privates" covered in public and then they enter JR. High and are told they have to strip for public showers or fail gym class. Whats the difference? My Jr. High teacher was a lesbian and use to run her finger up and down some girls to make sure they got fully wet in the shower.
If her sexual orientation is to be attracted to females then we might as well have had a straight male in there with us. We might as well have showwered with the boys.
Why arn't girls or boys at an all girl or all boy school allowwed to go nude in public if they want by the same reasoning of the school showers?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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I'm probably right on religion's dying grip on society.
The more religion, the more twisted the situation becomes with sex. Take a look at this example from my Islamic (now historical) end of the theitical spectrum:
Quote:
Question :
I am the mother of an only child, a seven year old boy, and recently I found him practicing the secret habit (masturbation). Every time I ask him if he did it today he tells me, quite frankly, yes. I forbade him to do this haraam action, then I started to take away some privileges and even hit him, but with no success. He is still doing it every day, maybe even more than once. I got tired of keeping an eye on him, and I feel ashamed before Allaah that this sin may stay with him until he grows up, and he may persist in not repenting, so he will get used to sin and regard it as insignificant, and so his heart will become deadened when he is still young.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
The family is often responsible for the children falling into sin, because they do not urge children to worship Allaah and they make available the means of falling into sin.
We do not know what is really happening here, but it may be that the circumstances surrounding this boy have made him fall into sin. He is an only child, and an only child is usually spoiled, which makes the means of falling into sin readily available. This problem may be dealt with in a number of ways:
1 ? Reducing the extent to which he is spoiled, because spoiling him makes him feel that he is not a man, so he tries to prove that he is a man by means of this habit or smoking, for example.
2 ? Not making the means of falling into sin available, especially those which contribute to deadening of the heart, such as giving him music tapes to listen to and providing satellite channels for him to watch.
3 ? Try not to let the child sleep alone or close the door when he is asleep, because being alone makes it easy to think about sin and encourages one to do it.
4 ? Making the child feel attached to the mosque and its study circles, and to righteous friends. These are the greatest means of helping a person to correct his ways and strengthen his faith.
5 ? Providing a useful Islamic audio-visual library, which will create in him a love for worship, teach him good manners and deter him from falling into sin.
6- Encouraging him to read, especially books that have to do with biographies of the scholars and heroic mujaahideen. Perhaps he will acquire some of their attributes and follow in their footsteps. It is better to encourage him to encourage him to write a summary of what he reads, hears and watches, and to give him a suitable reward for that.
7 ? Encourage him to memorize Qur?aan and fast; undoubtedly these will strengthen him spiritually.
8 ?Try to organize his time so that he will be active during the day and will sleep early, because staying up late may make him think at length about sin.
9 ? Explain to him the shar?i ruling on this habit and its effect on the mind, heart and faculties.
10 ? Avoid humiliating him, hitting him and embarrassing him, because hitting him, humiliating him and embarrassing him will not make him give up this sin and others like it, rather you should deal with him in the way that is best and by giving him good advice.
And Allaah is the source of strength.
Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)
And that's from otherwise loving mothers from utterly conservative societies.
And yes, it's actually known as the "secret habit".
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Wow! I'm speachless Thanks for sharing that in answer to some of my many many questions here as I seek to understand how all of this repression of what is natural and normal snuck up on us to become unatural and not the norm.
Even what was said about music was a trip. I didn't know some religious beliefs think music takes you out of the heart place.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: deafpanda]
#3858939 - 03/02/05 06:15 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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I think people have a right to fuck in public.
I agree wholeheartedly!
I want to wake up in the morning to see couples having anal sex on the sidewalk in front of my house for all the neighborhood kids to see! That'll learn 'em!
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3858982 - 03/02/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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It will teach who what?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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It will teach kids about sex.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3859005 - 03/02/05 06:30 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Probably.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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There should be no laws against it, but ugly people should have the common decency to realize they're ugly and cover up.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: Silversoul]
#3859054 - 03/02/05 06:38 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Designated fugly fucking sites, a better solution?
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: Silversoul]
#3859088 - 03/02/05 06:45 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah, how'd you like to wake up to Roseanne and Tom Arnold having sex in your front yard?
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3859098 - 03/02/05 06:48 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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If they're doing it on their own lawn, that's ok.
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vampirism
Stranger
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Posts: 8,120
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3859405 - 03/02/05 07:38 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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heres a question to you: what would the purpose be? When a society has many regulations, it is a sign that it has little culture and may well fall apart in the near future. Culture and tradition are law in some places; people would have a good sense of decency and not do it where it would not be accepted.
The fact that there needs to be a law represents something much bigger.
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JCoke
dream observer
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were not aloud to publicly call people niggers and spics at the local grocery store.
same reason people should not be aloud to fuck in public, people don't want it in there face.
your aloud to do what ever you want, but public = respect for your fellow man.
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------ "I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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JCoke
dream observer
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: JCoke]
#3859458 - 03/02/05 07:48 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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also, personnaly, as for as something like public breast feeding goes, i don't mind, but i do mind when i see someone get offended because they DO mind, i say no to public breast feeding for there sake.
of course, i don't want fines or punish for public fucking or public breast feeding, i just want respect.
years ago, at a church, a women would give her kid boobage right in her seat, while the sermon went on, nobody cared, not the kids, nor the parents, it's like, if someone did get offended, the women should go to a back room or something, even though 99% of the church did'nt care, until it's 100%, i say no.
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------ "I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
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I think orgies on private property are a great way to indulge one's desire for public nudity and public sex, while being respectful of those who may not care to observe such things.
-------------------- Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes. You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way. - Tom Willhite Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: JCoke]
#3859488 - 03/02/05 07:53 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Like I said, public sex is for another generation not even born yet to deal with. That's a far away frontier.
But right, lets talk about a womans right to go shirtless in public as men do, and breast feeding etc.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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I have to agree. That is a frontier our society is not ready to deal with. I, personally, don't want to have to deal with it either. Do, I think it immoral? That is a hard question that I am not prepared to answer at this time in my life. I guess it all depends upon the morals and mores of the society as to whether it is moral.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: vampirism]
#3859529 - 03/02/05 08:06 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Morrow,
What is it that you think it is representing, "the bigger problem" that is?
JCoke,
That was key to touch on, the issue of people taking offense to it. I want to know where that comes from. The Aborigines don't find any of it offensive, so it's learned.
Somewhere along the way, we taught ourselves to take offense to public nudity, nursing and sex. Why, I want to know. What was the advantage? Was it a matter of becoming more civilized, or pitched as being more civilized to cover and hide and keep private to be less like the savages or the impoverished?
Was it initially a way for classes of people to separate themselves from the lower classes or even a beginning way to create a lower class?
Breast feeding is called nursing because society women had actual nurses/nannies that breast fed their own children for them.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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I don't believe it is immoral. If I saw a couple making love, I'd feeling connected to them like they were my brother and sister in humanity.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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It shouldn't be done for the mere reason that some people aren't pleasant to the eyes, although public nudity isn't too much of an issue beyond public health... e.g. sitting at the ol' McDonalds to see someone bare ass spread out in a booth eating a cheeseburger. Works for me anyhow, remember a freedom is a freedom to all... unless you feel that you can easily conform to a new standard where you might one day see your parents going at it...
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Quote:
zahudulallah said: I don't believe it is immoral. If I saw a couple making love, I'd feeling connected to them like they were my brother and sister in humanity.
This would be applicable to all forms of sexual relations you know, being a democracy and all. Dunno, all the moaning around the place and the "too hard", "harder", and "right their" would lose its appeal soon enough.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Hippie
officialdeadhead
Registered: 02/17/05
Posts: 65
Loc: here & now
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said: Personally, I'm all for nudity. If men can go bareback, women should too.
Not sure if anyone said this (I didn't read the whole thread) but in some part of New York, it's legal for women to go bareback as long as they're not acting 'lewd.' Score one for womyn!
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JCoke
dream observer
Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: JCoke,
That was key to touch on, the issue of people taking offense to it. I want to know where that comes from. The Aborigines don't find any of it offensive, so it's learned.
Somewhere along the way, we taught ourselves to take offense to public nudity, nursing and sex. Why, I want to know. What was the advantage? Was it a matter of becoming more civilized, or pitched as being more civilized to cover and hide and keep private to be less like the savages or the impoverished?
Was it initially a way for classes of people to separate themselves from the lower classes or even a beginning way to create a lower class?
Breast feeding is called nursing because society women had actual nurses/nannies that breast fed their own children for them.
were taught not to run around naked, when were born, we don't give a shit, so it's learned/taught type deal for sure..
yea, i'm sure weve all seen shows on the discovery channel, nothing butt ass i tell you..
and yet i don't get offended or disgusted when it's on tv, and i would'nt be disgusted if i was there with them, like i said, my problem with it comes from the thought of someone else being offended by it, and theres another reason, i myself don't want to see on the streets, it's a distraction, it's not me, i want to go to the store pick up some smokes and go home with out getting a hard on.
not everyone wants to be perverted and be horny all day, that is one of my two reasons, banning public nudity for mine and othere's sake = respect for us.
however, most people are against it without even a thought of why there against it, a lost cause, there taught by parents and society that public nudity, wether it's nude beaches or nursing mothers, is wrong, to some, it does'nt matter why, it's just the way it always was..
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------ "I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: JCoke]
#3860045 - 03/02/05 09:38 PM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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I hear ya! I am wondering what started it being "wrong". There may be more implications then just religious ones, like what I suggested about class divisions between civilized and uncivilized humans.
Do we have any history buffs here?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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It is mainly an issue of propriety; not one of morals. I will say that I do not wish to engage in public sexual activity. I have a sense of good taste that this seems to violate. Breast feeding however is another matter. Public breast feeding can take place in an atmosphere of good taste if people are polite. It is not a religious issue as I see it.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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i live in the states, but i don't have any problem with public nudity or public sex. it's a natural thing and shouldn't be suppressed. if children can learn at a young age that it's a natural thing, i think they'll grow up to be less inhibited and more comfortable with their sexuality, rather than being mentally scarred like some people think would happen.
i also think the argument about "being offended" has no ground to stand on. there's a lot of things beside sex that we have to put up with on a daily basis that we might be offended by (people's clothes, opinions, language, etc). if you're disgusted by ugly people being naked or fucking, that's a personal problem that you need to deal with. they don't need to wear clothes out of your consideration just like they don't need to drive a car or eat food that you approve of.
i also don't think morality is a valid argument here. if your morality is against human nature you've got a twisted sense of morality anyway. and yes, shame is a learned behavior. if a child walked around naked for the first 6 or 7 years of his/her life they'd know nothing of shame.
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JCoke
dream observer
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Posts: 1,229
Loc: maryland
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3860638 - 03/03/05 12:09 AM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
moog said: i live in the states, but i don't have any problem with public nudity or public sex. it's a natural thing and shouldn't be suppressed. if children can learn at a young age that it's a natural thing, i think they'll grow up to be less inhibited and more comfortable with their sexuality, rather than being mentally scarred like some people think would happen.
i also think the argument about "being offended" has no ground to stand on. there's a lot of things beside sex that we have to put up with on a daily basis that we might be offended by (people's clothes, opinions, language, etc). if you're disgusted by ugly people being naked or fucking, that's a personal problem that you need to deal with. they don't need to wear clothes out of your consideration just like they don't need to drive a car or eat food that you approve of.
i also don't think morality is a valid argument here. if your morality is against human nature you've got a twisted sense of morality anyway. and yes, shame is a learned behavior. if a child walked around naked for the first 6 or 7 years of his/her life they'd know nothing of shame.
so basicly, you say fuck me, my taste, my beliefs, my life, it's my problem not yours, you do what you want i do what i want??
"also think the argument about "being offended" has no ground to stand on. there's a lot of things beside sex that we have to put up with on a daily basis that we might be offended by (people's clothes, opinions, language, etc)."
exactly, that does'nt make it right, we should'nt cuss around strangers, they might get offended, we should cover up what might be offences to strangers, and i sure as hell don't want to get into a religous debate on my way to the store for smokes..
you do all these things with out a care about other peoples feelings??
surely i'm not the only one here in suport of respect for your fellow man, no??
-------------------- hello, your name is life on earth ------------------------------------ "I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.
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BleaK
paradox
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: zorbman]
#3861178 - 03/03/05 02:26 AM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: I think people have a right to fuck in public.
I agree wholeheartedly!
I want to wake up in the morning to see couples having anal sex on the sidewalk in front of my house for all the neighborhood kids to see! That'll learn 'em!
sure like anyone would wanna fuck on the sidewalk in the cold morning dew... id much rather have anal sex in a cozy enclose, pillow laden den.
just because people can do watever they want (AND THEY CAN) doesnt mean they will do everything concievable.
-------------------- "You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma
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spudamore
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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damn jig i wish i was here earlier to discuss the throughly, i think people or society need to let go of there probs with sexuality and become more sexuality free beings. the only law that should be against is age of consent like older to younger people and doing anything against a persons will. through my younger years and through my teens i found it hard to be sexually open with others because of experience and what beleifs and been taught to me when i was younger till i found tantra and my own way.
lets become a sexually open soceity and not to hide behind smoke and mirrors.
-------------------- suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: spudamore]
#3861201 - 03/03/05 02:47 AM (19 years, 21 days ago) |
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That will happen the day red states revere Alfred Kinsey.
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deafpanda
Stranger
Registered: 05/07/04
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I think that, while it may cause offence to lots of people, it is your choice whether you respect these people's "sense of dignity" and not the government's place to regulate what comes down to manners.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: deafpanda]
#3862717 - 03/03/05 02:02 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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there is nothing wrong with sex or nudity, but think about the violence that it would cause.
Every attractive and kind person (both at the same time) is a powerful catalisator in local society. Some get attracted and ambitious, some get hopeless and depressed, some get angry and jelous (sp?) In extreme cases, some even kill themselfs, or kill others. And all that just because of word of mouth or public showing of affection like innocent hugs. Now imagine what would be if those people actually saw them having sex.
You know there are lot of people out there that are hormonal unstopable locomotives. So make them angry and you have injected an injection with a powerfull drug, and suddenly they pop and are no longer humans that think but wild animals. I'm not judging those people, there are ways of controling that medically, but that's not in practice at this time.
So having sex in public would be one of those injections of drugs and a lot of blood would be spilled for nothing.
If everyone was one big happy family and everyone had parterns that fit each other, and it was one on one all the time, sure, sex, nudity, whatever.
But a lot of suicides are done because of crushes and obsessions. Imagine some person obsessed over someone, crying and being on the edge of nerves walking in the park and seeing his "loved one" having sex with some other person, and the person can't even say "hi" because he/she is in extasy and can't move her/his mouth
There would be a lot more suicides and murders out of rage and pain.
Hiding is not the solution, but a perfect balance of freedom and subtleness (is that a word?) is the right choice for keeping everyone happy as much as it is possible.
And as for nudity. I bet the number of rapes would tripple. Some people just can't control themselfs. They need hormonal therapy.
There is no such thing as a 100% free society because society itself is a compromise of freedom, we give away freedom and get back stability and security.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3862739 - 03/03/05 02:06 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
moog said: i live in the states, but i don't have any problem with public nudity or public sex. it's a natural thing and shouldn't be suppressed. if children can learn at a young age that it's a natural thing, i think they'll grow up to be less inhibited and more comfortable with their sexuality, rather than being mentally scarred like some people think would happen.
i also think the argument about "being offended" has no ground to stand on. there's a lot of things beside sex that we have to put up with on a daily basis that we might be offended by (people's clothes, opinions, language, etc). if you're disgusted by ugly people being naked or fucking, that's a personal problem that you need to deal with. they don't need to wear clothes out of your consideration just like they don't need to drive a car or eat food that you approve of.
i also don't think morality is a valid argument here. if your morality is against human nature you've got a twisted sense of morality anyway. and yes, shame is a learned behavior. if a child walked around naked for the first 6 or 7 years of his/her life they'd know nothing of shame.
Killing is also a natural thing... Among one of the most natural things of all, yet for some reason I doubt that you would conform to a similar belief with a similar line of reasoning. Sure, we're animals, but we're higher animals by virtue of restraining ourselves for a better purpose.
Shame is not of consequence, one should have no shame with their body, if you do alter it with plastic (plastic surgery) like those with low self esteem do. Most certainly not an issue of shame, nor morality, just a higher purpose and a greater distinction between our birthright as human beings and our ability to be higher to the degree that we have a reasoning based on the foundations they serve.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/03/05 02:20 PM)
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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Yes killing is a natural thing, but killing one of your own species is typically not.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3862873 - 03/03/05 02:24 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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Now where did you hear such a thing?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Ermmm... killing one's own species is EXTREMELY NATURAL... do yourself a favor, turn on your tv and watch the discovery channel, animal planet, national geography or anything to that nature. Competition among one's own species is typically greater then the competetion against another species due to the inherent niche that they provide.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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yup
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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this is obvious to anyone with at least one eye. if a species killing its own were a natural tendency, in the same vein as the drives for food, shelter, reproduction, and socialization are, that means we'd think about killing other people on a regular basis. since the large majority of humans don't, it isn't a natural tendency. also, animals would eventually off their own species if they killed on a regular basis, as per a natural tendency, since it's easier (faster) to kill than to procreate. in the animal kingdom, killing one of your own is usually the result of fighting over territory, which correlates to humans fighting wars over "territory," although for us territory can be simply a threat or political power, etc.
when i say natural i'm referring to regularity or frequency of occurence. killing one of your own is rare and not as common as our instinctual drives to survive by other means.
humans nor animals do NOT wake up in the morning thinking, "hmm who will i kill today?"
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3862968 - 03/03/05 02:40 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
moog said: this is obvious to anyone with at least one eye. if a species killing its own were a natural tendency, in the same vein as the drives for food, shelter, reproduction, and socialization are, that means we'd think about killing other people on a regular basis. since the large majority of humans don't, it isn't a natural tendency. also, animals would eventually off their own species if they killed on a regular basis, as per a natural tendency, since it's easier (faster) to kill than to procreate. in the animal kingdom, killing one of your own is usually the result of fighting over territory, which correlates to humans fighting wars over "territory," although for us territory can be simply a threat or political power, etc.
when i say natural i'm referring to regularity or frequency of occurence. killing one of your own is rare and not as common as our instinctual drives to survive by other means.
humans nor animals do NOT wake up in the morning thinking, "hmm who will i kill today?"
Hate to burst your buble, but don't generalize. Some humans actually do wake up and wonder who they are going to kill those that don't abide by social procedures, nor conduct. Ever heard of serial killers?
It's rare because we're human beings and we provide limitations on our own conduct by; agreeing with a social contract and thereby limiting our behavior and exercising constraint.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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exactly, so why are you saying it's natural then?
even animals avoid fighting to the death if possible. fatal fights over territory aren't as common as discovery channel for kids makes it out to be.
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Cyber
Ash
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 1,476
Loc: Dearborn Michigan
Last seen: 10 months, 6 days
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: So gomp was telling me about a show on the Discovery Channel where public sex was the norm in Ancient Egypt.
In all of my studies of Ancient Egypt I have not come across anything that suggested that public sex was an acceptable practice.
Clothing was optional. Most Ancient Egyptian Children went with out cloths until there teens. Most garb of the ancient Egyptians was utilitarian. Common work cloths tended to be a wrap to keep your privets from getting in the way as well as a cap to cover your head. Most of it was due to climate. With the Warm winters and hot summers there was little need for cloths. Socially, body hair was a taboo. Both men and women removed all body hair from there head down. Wigs were worn by both sex's as was makeup.
Births were a big thing, The bringing of a child into the world was a major event. Often the mother in labor was placed on a pedestal in the center of the room. shrouded by a light veil to keep the bugs away. The family and friends were in the room to celebrate the arrival of a new child. Women seem to cringe when I get to that little point.
All in all it was a different time with different social rules. Social rules that were as different as the ones between America and Japan today.
Quote:
So how did it go from public to private activity anyway?
Good question, I really have no idea how.
Quote:
How do all feel about it if it became legal to have sex in public as well as public nudity and the issue of women nursing in public?
I personally would not care one way or the other. Around here women can nurse in public and do. Public nudity does not bother me we, but I have seen enough nude bodies that it is just another person to me.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3862994 - 03/03/05 02:45 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
moog said: exactly, so why are you saying it's natural then?
even animals avoid fighting to the death if possible. fatal fights over territory aren't as common as discovery channel for kids makes it out to be.
I'm saying that one shouldn't apply natural ways to human conduct. Although we are animals, we aren't due to our ability to exercise constraint and to think of the consequences of our actions to a more profound degree then most animals are. Don't misconstrue/sidetrack the argument. The point of the matter is that one shouldn't be allowed to be freely nude and to have intercourse in public settings due to the fact that we are anything but animals in our capacity to reason.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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good points Cyber, nothing wrong with nudity at all imo. But most people have a limited concept of sexual maturity, the only reason why it would be such an issue. We've got a population issue already, that would certainly exagerate the situation. Maybe if some cataclysmic event is going to occur then we should all run around naked after the fact to "restore" what was lost. As it stands now, I don't think it'd be advisable to condone it.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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moog
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1,296
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i understand your point. humans are different from animals in their ability to reason.
here's something to consider though: one person may reason, like yourself, that if we can exercise constraint then maybe we should. another will say, hey i was born naked so the natural thing to do would be to stay naked. there's more than those two of course, there's a lot of different ways to reason this out. it's our very ability to reason that makes us come to different conclusions, and who is to say who's reasoning is the correct one?
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3863111 - 03/03/05 03:00 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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Good point moog. I think it's not a matter of who is to say what is the correct way, but why they say it is the correct way. As far as reasoning goes, can you explain to me why and how your views would be more of a benefit to society then the currently established view? If not, we have no reason to further discuss this. I believe the choice is to made as to the larger benefit (socially, a government and laws are to serve the people it represents and nothing else), and imo it hasn't been proven to any degree that it'd be better another way.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Public Sex and Nudity [Re: moog]
#3863210 - 03/03/05 03:14 PM (19 years, 20 days ago) |
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moog
It's not about if killing is natural on it's own. What is natural is following desires and instincts. It is natural to kill someone if you feel like it. It's natural to rape if you feel like it, because that is what animals do. They just follow what they want to do.
The natural way for satisfying hunger would be to eat at all cost, even if it invloves sacrifying other people's lives.
Did you know that male cats (large cats) kill the young of the female just to make her have sex with them? This is not an anomaly. This is something every lion will try to do. It is a part of destroying competition genes and forcing your own genes.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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AbstractHarmonix
Love is like a train...
Registered: 07/08/04
Posts: 3,509
Loc: The Sea
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Adamist and I were sorta having some sandy naked sex in front of multiple thousands of people during dave Matthews, Friday night at Bonnaroo last year. heh.
Some people were happy to see us together, others were pissed off cause it was the encore set of DM. Emo kids.
after all we were in the front front, where Dave could see us, right under his nose..dead center. gotta love candyflippinmushietrippin...
-------------------- A plethora of music aspirations control my temptations of future revelations beyond "now". The percussion, and the heart beat of my love and devotion. The rhythm goes beyond, prying into the third eye, releasing the creativity held so far inside. The melodicies, through the out of tune pianos and broken classical guitars...there lies a beauty. A beauty as prevelent as the fire inside. To release these energies is pure ecstacy, to deveop these gifts is sacred. The vocality, so pure as can be, shying away from herself, lies within me. For the underlying serenitity, this is what I live for. I plea for harmony, and nothing more. Music equals love. Creation of love leads to the procreativity of the World, and it's spirals and puddles prevailing.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Comparing killing to sex is stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Ermmmm well, your detracting away from the initial argument. Their are similarties that apply in way of social constraints and the reasoning thereof, sorry you couldn't see what I was getting at. Failing to see a simple point and Its implication is stupid as well.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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THE KRAT BARON
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 42,409
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a
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
Edited by matt (08/31/07 06:02 PM)
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 9 months
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Whats your point of implication?
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting
Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
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Why is it stupid to you? Both are driven by natural instincs. Eating is too. And drinking.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Quote:
zahudulallah said: Whats your point of implication?
Please reread what I've posted... I don't feel the need to further reiterate myself. If it isn't clear to you, by all means PM me, and I'll break it down.
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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vampirism
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 8,120
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: Morrow,
What is it that you think it is representing, "the bigger problem" that is?
Simply that few think for themselves because they don't know how, and there is no cultural knowledge to teach them at least the basics if they can't think. What the basics are is thus highly subjective, but sex laws are stupid and should have nothing to do with government.
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