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 Silversoul
Rhizome
 
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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I've personally been to a few raves where gay guys hit on me. It's happened to others as well. In fact, many of the hate crimes committed against gays are situations where the gay guy hits on the straight guy, so you can't say it doesn't happen.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Frankly it's simple bigotry.
Yes, it is bigotry. And I support this bigotry completely. Here's why:
1. A military keeps a nation safe. The security and safety of citizens and a nation depends upon the effectiveness of their military.
2. Because of the vital role of a military, its effectiveness is more important than any progressiveness or equality that certain people or groups want. The military is not an institution for social experimentation. The first priority is to make a nation's military work, the second priority is to try to insert progressiveness into the institution. Survival and defense is more important than equality.
3. There are too many people who hate gays or who are uncomfortable around gays. By allowing gay people to serve openly you will hurt morale which will hurt military effectiveness.
4. I would be worried about people getting "sidetracked" from their duties in a combat zone if there were romantic feelings amongst certain soldiers.
5. I don't have anything against gay people at all. But, I realize that other people do. Because of that, I don't want gay people in the military.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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 Re: Gays in the military  [Re: Silversoul]
#3858023 - 03/02/05 03:40 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Deal with it and move on. Imagine if every woman got very pissed off at EVERY guy that hit on her. Imagine if a straight guy hits on a girl...that girl doesn't (usually) get enraged and commit hate crimes against men. Men seem to take a gay guy hitting on them as an affront to their dignity...somehow it makes them less of a man?
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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 zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Silversoul]
#3858025 - 03/02/05 03:41 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're going to rave, one should expect that.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: dblaney]
#3858034 - 03/02/05 03:44 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney18 said:
Deal with it and move on. Imagine if every woman got very pissed off at EVERY guy that hit on her. Imagine if a straight guy hits on a girl...that girl doesn't (usually) get enraged and commit hate crimes against men. Men seem to take a gay guy hitting on them as an affront to their dignity...somehow it makes them less of a man?
Did I say I got upset about it? No. But some guys do, and it does put gays in danger.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Silversoul]
#3858049 - 03/02/05 03:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Did I say I got upset about it? No. But some guys do, and it does put gays in danger.
Well that's fair enough.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858062 - 03/02/05 03:49 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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1. A military keeps a nation safe. The security and safety of citizens and a nation depends upon the effectiveness of their military.
And to say that gays are ineffective is false, and prejudice.
2. Because of the vital role of a military, its effectiveness is more important than any progressiveness or equality that certain people or groups want. The military is not an institution for social experimentation. The first priority is to make a nation's military work, the second priority is to try to insert progressiveness into the institution. Survival and defense is more important than equality.
This is just blatant mysticism. It's the same flimsy circular logic used to oppress gays in other aspects of liberties
3. There are too many people who hate gays or who are uncomfortable around gays. By allowing gay people to serve openly you will hurt morale which will hurt military effectiveness.
You're getting desperate now. 
4. I would be worried about people getting "sidetracked" from their duties in a combat zone if there were romantic feelings amongst certain soldiers.
How effective would you really be in the military, Randall? It was you who once begged for a Shroomery chick to have sex with you.
5. I don't have anything against gay people at all. But, I realize that other people do. Because of that, I don't want gay people in the military.
So, if a bunch of people in a unit hate blacks, the lone black guy should be discharged? 
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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And to say that gays are ineffective is false, and prejudice.
I never said they were.
2. Because of the vital role of a military, its effectiveness is more important than any progressiveness or equality that certain people or groups want. The military is not an institution for social experimentation. The first priority is to make a nation's military work, the second priority is to try to insert progressiveness into the institution. Survival and defense is more important than equality.
This is just blatant mysticism. It's the same flimsy circular logic used to oppress gays in other aspects of liberties
I don't want to suppress anybody's liberties. But, I think the effectiveness of a military is more important than whether or not gays can openly serve. Survival is more important than progressiveness.
3. There are too many people who hate gays or who are uncomfortable around gays. By allowing gay people to serve openly you will hurt morale which will hurt military effectiveness.
You're getting desperate now.
I am not getting desperate. As can be evidenced by the uproar over gay marriage in America, a LOT of Americans do not like the homosexual lifestyle. That means that a lot of servicemen DO NOT LIKE the homosexual lifestyle. How effective do you think military units will be if there is great enmity and discord between soldiers?
How effective would you really be in the military, Randall? It was you who once begged for a Shroomery chick to have sex with you.
At least I'm not a homo.  
5. I don't have anything against gay people at all. But, I realize that other people do. Because of that, I don't want gay people in the military.
So, if a bunch of people in a unit hate blacks, the lone black guy should be discharged?
Something would need to be done. Obviously, that unit would not function well. I'm not saying the black guy should be kicked out though.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
I call bullshit. I'm gay and no one touches that with a 20 foot pole. Gay men meet other gay men within the spectrum of the gay community. Just a bullshit stereotype that homosexuals are sex fiends.
Please do not lie. You may call bullshit all you want, but you are wrong. I have been hit upon numerous times by gay men. The first time was when I was in high school. I've been approached when working out in a gym (some perv even started whacking his meat while looking at me in the shower at a gym). When I bought my first computer that little Vietnamese guy helping me started complimenting me on my physique and got uncomfortably 'touchy.'. I've been approached at nightclubs, parties, a political convention and even on the street.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858121 - 03/02/05 04:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been approached when working out in a gym (some perv even started whacking his meat while looking at me in the shower at a gym).
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858132 - 03/02/05 04:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, that was very awkward - I turned my back so I would not see him, then I thought, "what the hell am I doing giving him an ass shot?" I cut my shower short and got the hell out of there.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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unbeliever
Yo Daddy!
Registered: 05/22/04
Posts: 5,158
Loc: Gallifrey
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858147 - 03/02/05 04:09 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
I've been approached when working out in a gym (some perv even started whacking his meat while looking at me in the shower at a gym).
That's the same guy who, if straight, would be wacking off outside the girls locker room or whatever. It has nothing to do with his particular orientation.
Oh and some guy coming up to you to see if you want to flirt is hardly the end of the world. Women have put up with it on a much larger scale for countless centuries. Just say no thank you and 99.9% of people will leave you alone.
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Happiness is a warm gun...
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858148 - 03/02/05 04:10 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Grow up.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858158 - 03/02/05 04:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Prosgeopax said:
Yeah, it was awesome - I gave him a full frontal view of me, then I thought, "what the hell am I doing standing over here when I could be giving him a handjob?" I cut my shower short and ran the hell over there to him.
I just had to do it. I apologize if it is too OTD'ish for you.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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As opposed to growing down?
--------------------
Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858165 - 03/02/05 04:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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No worries.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858173 - 03/02/05 04:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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But seriously....I have been hit on by three gay dudes in my life. None of them did anything disgusting or overly weird, but I was still uncomfortable.
It sounds like some people here had to deal with much more aggressive gays than I did.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858175 - 03/02/05 04:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never said they were.
You clearly implied by referring to the "effectiveness" of a military.
don't want to suppress anybody's liberties. But, I think the effectiveness of a military is more important than whether or not gays can openly serve. Survival is more important than progressiveness.
Do you know what mysticism means?
I am not getting desperate. As can be evidenced by the uproar over gay marriage in America, a LOT of Americans do not like the homosexual lifestyle. That means that a lot of servicemen DO NOT LIKE the homosexual lifestyle. How effective do you think military units will be if there is great enmity and discord between soldiers?
See above.
At least I'm not a homo.
And you're white too! What luck!
Something would need to be done. Obviously, that unit would not function well. I'm not saying the black guy should be kicked out though.
Then what are you saying?
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 18 years, 10 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858181 - 03/02/05 04:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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As opposed to immaturity.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 18 years, 3 months
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Please tell me what I stated that shows immaturity. Your inability to accept the truth is more a sign of immaturity than anything I have stated in this thread.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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