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 zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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 Re: Gays in the military  [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858405 - 03/02/05 06:49 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prosgeopax said:
Please do not lie. You may call bullshit all you want, but you are wrong. I have been hit upon numerous times by gay men. The first time was when I was in high school. I've been approached when working out in a gym (some perv even started whacking his meat while looking at me in the shower at a gym). When I bought my first computer that little Vietnamese guy helping me started complimenting me on my physique and got uncomfortably 'touchy.'. I've been approached at nightclubs, parties, a political convention and even on the street.
You're a homophobe, bud. I'm not saying you all-out hate gays, but you have a phobia of homosexuals that is fairly evident.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
You're a homophobe, bud. I'm not saying you all-out hate gays, but you have a phobia of homosexuals that is fairly evident.
What? Because I relate my experiences, somehow I am phobic of homosexuals? That is REALLY stupid. You have to be a complete moron to read that into any statement I have made. Please stop building idiotic emotion driven models of those you know nothing about. I will now label you a 'rational phobe' because you are apparently afraid of rational thought and rational discourse.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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 RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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What's wrong with punishing homophobes the same way as racists?
There are too many homophobes in American society. What the hell is the point of allowing a certain group to enter the military if a good 40-60% of the current members are disgusted by, fear, or outright hate this particular group? It would destroy morale in the military.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858450 - 03/02/05 06:57 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's equal to that of someone who distrusts black people due to "experience".
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858455 - 03/02/05 06:58 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
What's wrong with punishing homophobes the same way as racists?
There are too many homophobes in American society. What the hell is the point of allowing a certain group to enter the military if a good 40-60% of the current members are disgusted by, fear, or outright hate this particular group? It would destroy morale in the military.
40-60%? 
You know what's coming, Randall...
Link it
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: dblaney]
#3858461 - 03/02/05 06:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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The civil rights movement was able to effectively change the vast majority of people's minds. Who's to say that another such movement would fail?
If such a movement succeeds, hatred of homosexuals goes down dramatically, and people don't care about other people's sexuality, then by all means let gays into the military. Open homosexuality would not hurt morale then. But, in today's world it would.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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http://www.lmfct.org/news_HRC_Gallup_Poll.htm
Should Homosexuality Be Legal?
Gallup first asked about the legality of homosexuality in 1977, with a basic question worded as follows: "Do you think homosexual relations between consenting adults should or should not be legal?" At that point, Americans were evenly divided on the issue, as 43% said yes, 43% said no, and 14% were not sure. In Gallup's recent Values and Beliefs poll, conducted May 5-7, the public has clearly become more moderate toward homosexuality than was the case two decades earlier: 60% of Americans now say that homosexual relations should be legal, 35% not legal, with 5% unsure.
Homosexuality as an Acceptable Lifestyle
Indeed, a sizable percentage of Americans continue to frown on the homosexual lifestyle. In 1982, Gallup distinguished between Americans' personal feelings about homosexuality from their opinions about its legality by asking this question: "Do you feel that homosexuality should be considered an acceptable alternative lifestyle or not?" At that time, just 34% said yes. Public acceptance on this measure has increased incrementally since that point, and our latest poll shows that a small majority, 54%, now agrees that homosexuality should be considered an acceptable lifestyle. Still, that leaves a substantial minority of 43% who disagree.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858533 - 03/02/05 07:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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In the MILITARY Randall. I want a link regarding supposed bigotry in the MILITARY.
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
It's equal to that of someone who distrusts black people due to "experience".
Do you have a congenital defect that will not allow you to think rationally? WHAT is equal to that of someone who distrusts black people due to "experience"?
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858543 - 03/02/05 07:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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How is it any different from your distrust of homosexuals because of "experience"?
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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WTF are you talking about? Please quote me where I ever stated that I distrust homosexuals.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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In the MILITARY Randall. I want a link regarding supposed bigotry in the MILITARY.
It is not possible to provide data to show that because gays are not currently allowed into the U.S. military.
The links I provided show that in America, there is a sizeable distaste for homosexuals and the homosexual lifestyle. Since military personel are drawn from the citizenry, it is safe to assume that a lot of soldiers do not like gays.
Again, I will use the analogy of the high school. What happens when a person is openly gay in high school? They get made fun of and beat up. The people in the military are not that much older than high school age kids. It is safe to assume that they would act in the same immature way.
By the way Zahud, you can lick my love pump whenever you want to...
Edited by RandalFlagg (03/02/05 07:19 PM)
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858600 - 03/02/05 07:23 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prosgeopax said:
Quote:
zahudulallah said:
You're a homophobe, bud. I'm not saying you all-out hate gays, but you have a phobia of homosexuals that is fairly evident.
What? Because I relate my experiences, somehow I am phobic of homosexuals? That is REALLY stupid. You have to be a complete moron to read that into any statement I have made. Please stop building idiotic emotion driven models of those you know nothing about. I will now label you a 'rational phobe' because you are apparently afraid of rational thought and rational discourse.
So what was it that you were implying by "experience"?
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Prosgeopax
Jaded, yethopeful?
Registered: 01/28/05
Posts: 1,258
Loc: Appearing at a mall near ...
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Quote:
zahudulallah said:
So what was it that you were implying by "experience"?
You have real trouble following the flow of a discussion, don't you? You made statements to the effect that gays only hit up on other people that they know to be gay. Which is complete bullshit - that's why I brought up my experiences, to show that you are spewing complete bullshit. You continue to spew bullshit with your insistence that somehow those who make statements you disagree with are homophobic, not by any signs of them exhibiting fear nor any signs of hate, but merely because they call you on your bullshit. Then you come up with even more unfounded crap that I somehow distrust homosexuals because of my experiences. You have yet to quote me where I exhibited any fear or distrust of anyone because of their sexual orientation.
Please stop making up idiotic lies about those you know nothing about.
Please stop the simplistic labeling with PC pejoratives - they are only a means of bypassing rational thought and do absolutely nothing to increase understanding.
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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.
You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite
Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.
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zahudulallah
Sexual Heretic
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Prosgeopax]
#3858725 - 03/02/05 07:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Silversoul
Rhizome
 
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3858827 - 03/02/05 07:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
RandalFlagg, please explain how the military should go about handling a situation where a black soldier is subjected to bigotry.
Racism has been effectively combated enough to make it a negligable threat when it comes to military effectiveness. Having the races mix when it comes to activities is pretty much accepted. Homosexuality is not.
Therefore, I think it would be possible to chastise the offending racists. It would not be possible to chastise offending homophobes because there would be so damn many of them in the military.
Racism was still a big problem when the military was integrated, but it still got done, because these guys have to follow orders, whether they like it or not.
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lonebuddha
whats it allabout?
Registered: 11/01/04
Posts: 255
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: Silversoul]
#3859186 - 03/02/05 09:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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Gays in the military will come when people are more accepting of homosexuality. If I'm not mistaken some other countries allow homosexuals in their military.
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DirtMcgirt
in a pinch
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 2,213
Loc: city of angels
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The whole arguement against homosexuals in the military is stupid and based on homophobia or prejudice. Does anybody honestly think the "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy creates a better military atmosphere and better morale? You can't say homos can't be allowed into the military b/c they might hit on men and then continue to support women in the military because that just as well could be a distraction to the men or each other under the same logic.
Do people think there aren't a bunch of homosexuals or bisexuals in the military right now? I mean, a bunch of dudes sleeping, showering, and eating together in barracks for months at a time, creating a trusting brotherhood together where they lay there life on the line for each other and when they DO get leave they still fucking hang out together wherever they go in those shithole rural military towns where the men outnumber the women. Sounds pretty gay to me.
Also, by allowing homosexuals in the military do you really think those who would bother to sign up are going to show up and have a big 'ol gay orgy? Its still the military and people have to abide by military rules gay or not. If somebody if hating on another soldier because he is gay (or for any other reason) do you guys really have that little respect for military discipline where its going to be a huge issue? Tons of poor, uneducated people of the black, white, and brown race go into the army chalk full of prejudices against each other. They seem to work things out. A few Things will happen at first when a few bigots can't break out of there homophobic fears. But the fact is soldiers enjoy their job and if it comes down to having it or losing it over some other dude's sexuality I think 99.999% would rather continue being a mercenary and just deal.
This is really a much bigger issue than it should be.
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"And we, inhabitants of the great coral of the Cosmos, believe the atom (which still we cannot see) to be full matter, whereas, it too, like everything else, is but an embroidery of voids in the Void, and we give the name of being, dense and even eternal, to that dance of inconsistencies, that infinite extension that is identified with absolute Nothingness and that spins from its own non-being the illusion of everything."
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DigitalDuality
enthusiast
Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 354
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
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Re: Gays in the military [Re: DirtMcgirt]
#3861428 - 03/03/05 09:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago) |
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To quote Chris Rock... if they want to fight and die, let them, b/c i sure as hell am not. And furthter from Dennis Leary, anyone in the military should be allowed to freedom to f**k whoever the hell they want, men, women, commanding officers, watermelons.. who gives a shit. Let them get their rocks off and keep an even head before they go into battle.
Don't ask, don't tell? No problem. If/when a draft ever occurs, believe me.. i'm sexuall harassing every male i see when i go to sign up.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Not even going to bother reading the whole thread. But if it's such an issue, give them seperate barracks. And give them different colored fatigues so that we can denote who the "outsiders" are. The primary issue with any group conflict is that they are made to be outsiders and are further differentiated by their belief system.
Shit, perhaps we can do the same thing with religious views while we're at it, Lets put crosses on our fatigues to imply and further differentiate denominations... Better yet, let's force everyone to have a Tattoo for every meme that they subscribe to, that way we know exactly what type of person they are and can argue, cast judgement, and shun them on the basis of their tattoo so that we can tell a person's belief and judge them like a cattle herder knows his cattle on the basis of his "brand". Shit like this has to stop.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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