Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisibleuriahchase
Skinny White Boy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 675
Loc: SoCal
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3856197 - 03/02/05 07:59 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

i only read about the first four replies....Gomp proved you wrong ...

and besides evolution is just a theory never any proof of it has been found. nor ever will. i think this is a good post to end this thread.


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: deafpanda]
    #3856204 - 03/02/05 08:01 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

deafpanda said:
Just demonstrating that theories are not facts until proved wrong, they are theories until they have amassed significant corroborative evidence.




I never said that your "theory" was not true, just not well thought out.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: uriahchase]
    #3856215 - 03/02/05 08:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

uriahchase said:
i only read about the first four replies....Gomp proved you wrong ...

and besides evolution is just a theory never any proof of it has been found. nor ever will. i think this is a good post to end this thread.




You need to read the WHOLE thread.

Evolution has been witnessed and documented. Just not in "human" evolution.


Again back up and read the thread.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3856400 - 03/02/05 09:04 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)


You need to read the WHOLE thread.

Evolution has been witnessed and documented. Just not in "human" evolution.


Again back up and read the thread.


Can I suggest you do the same? Every question or wrong assumption you had about evolution has been answered. You refused to read it or just ignored it, sticking to your "theory" as if it has any grounding in science at all. It doesn't. You realize you are completely wrong? If you read a biology book you would realize this. The mechanisms of what you speak of have been figured out a long time ago. You aren't thinking up anything new or interesting here, and frankly, I am amazed you refuse to learn when people are teaching you something.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: looner2]
    #3856585 - 03/02/05 10:08 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I am amazed you refuse to learn when people are teaching you something.

Don't be amazed, looner. Pride and Ignorance are two conditions we humans are not likely to lose any time soon :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3857427 - 03/02/05 01:32 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Paradigm said:
Questioning facts has indeed gotten us far, but science cannot tell us why, only how.




I never said science could tell us why.

I just told you a theory of how and why that you cant disprove.

Arent all theories, facts untill they are disproved?



What? No. They're theories until they're disproved, and frankly, your ideas fit more under the category of "dogma" than theory.

Quote:

Isnt the theory of gravity still holding up? Yea, no one had disproved it yet.



Wrong again. Einstein's general theory of relativity proved Newton wrong about gravity.

Quote:

Prove my "theory" wrong.



You clearly don't understand the concept of the burden of proof. It's not up to me to prove you wrong. It's up to you to prove your idea to be true.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: Silversoul]
    #3857488 - 03/02/05 01:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I have never mentioned any kind of "dogma" or ritual, just the concept of "divine intervention".

I haven't even tried to dispute our current views of science.

I never told anyone that their theory was wrong.


I didn't even say that "random" mutations in our evolution never happen.

All I said was that some of the mutations could have been given a "nudge" toward one direction or other.



Here is another example.



When proto-man had to "adapt" from living in a jungle/forest environment to the savanna. We had to learn to walk upright on our back 2 legs. This would have caused "major" lower back pain and made the proto-human (us) miserable. He had to make a major adaptation to this new environment.

God/Mother Nature, hears our misery and nudges our genetic makeup in a direction that would make walking on 2 legs less painful.


Meanwhile the tail and appendix that we used to rely on slowly disappears. We made that change on our own.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: Silversoul]
    #3857556 - 03/02/05 02:05 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Don't even bother, eh. He obviously doesn't want to learn anything new. Arguing with a person who believes that God himself "nudges" our genetic makeup in certain directions isn't likely to go very far :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefreddurgan
Techgnostic
Male

Registered: 01/11/04
Posts: 3,648
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3857583 - 03/02/05 02:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:

Here is another example.

When proto-man had to "adapt" from living in a jungle/forest environment to the savanna. We had to learn to walk upright on our back 2 legs. This would have caused "major" lower back pain and made the proto-human (us) miserable. He had to make a major adaptation to this new environment.

God/Mother Nature, hears our misery and nudges our genetic makeup in a direction that would make walking on 2 legs less painful.

Meanwhile the tail and appendix that we used to rely on slowly disappears. We made that change on our own.




God you are so wrong. We wouldn't have started to walk on two legs until we COULD walk on two legs. Even IF the quadripedal people just "decided" to start standing up on two legs, which they wouldn't have because that's rediculous, they COULDN'T because like you said it would be highly unnatural and would be a detriment to survival.

Now, the way it actually works is that some of the quadripeds were born better at walking on two legs. Not much better, but better. A better sense of balance, maybe a stronger back? This would give an obvious survival advantage and so this particular animal/animals (probably more than one at a time given population numbers) reproduced, causing their offspring to be better at walking on two legs. Over THOUSANDS of years these more adept, but not completely bipedal creatures became more and more prevalent. And eventually they were the majority, and eventually more were birthed that were better at walking, and AGAIN the cycle repeated. And evenutlaly, after all those thousands and thousands of generations, millions of years have passed and those that were once bipedally-gifted have given rise to those that are indeed bipedal.

They didn't become bipedal because they WANTED to, or TRIED to, they became bipedal because they COULD.

Even your last statement is wrong and it's for the same reasons as you've been wrong this WHOLE time. They aren't adapting in the sense that you say they are. They didn't force themselves to adapt so they could live in the savannahs, instead, they COULD live in the savannahs because over the years enough evolution occured that allowed them to do so.

You keep putting the whole scenario backwards. That's just not how it works.

And the appendix and tail aren't going away because we don't need it. It's going away because the ones that were born with a different/lesser/modified tail survived better than the bipedals that had tails, so they reproduced more and made less people with tails.

Once again, you're doing it backwards.

Edit : Trendal, I hear ya. This is getting sad. But I'm learning alot about evolution and am enjoying this thread because of it.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Edited by freddurgan (03/02/05 02:13 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3858875 - 03/02/05 06:05 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
I have never mentioned any kind of "dogma" or ritual, just the concept of "divine intervention".



Which is a dogma, not a theory. A theory can be tested.

Quote:

I haven't even tried to dispute our current views of science.

I never told anyone that their theory was wrong.


I didn't even say that "random" mutations in our evolution never happen.

All I said was that some of the mutations could have been given a "nudge" toward one direction or other.



Which cannot be tested or measured, and thus does not qualify as a theory.


Quote:

Here is another example.


When proto-man had to "adapt" from living in a jungle/forest environment to the savanna. We had to learn to walk upright on our back 2 legs. This would have caused "major" lower back pain and made the proto-human (us) miserable. He had to make a major adaptation to this new environment.



The transition from jungle to savannah did not happen overnight. It took millions of years of living on the edge of the forest.

Quote:

God/Mother Nature, hears our misery and nudges our genetic makeup in a direction that would make walking on 2 legs less painful.



Complete speculation. There is no indication from the fossil record(nor could there be) that such an event took place.

Quote:

Meanwhile the tail and appendix that we used to rely on slowly disappears. We made that change on our own.



We got rid of the tail long before that.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleuriahchase
Skinny White Boy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/25/04
Posts: 675
Loc: SoCal
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: Silversoul]
    #3859868 - 03/02/05 09:14 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

okay i read the whole fuckin thing..now i think ive pulled my retina,andf spraned my cornea...hehe yah i still agree with my previous reply my veiw hasn't changed.

*why hasn't our bodies "evolved" since there has been record of history<~~~~~??

*did that make any sense to you???? hmmm..i need better writting skills.
any way why haven't humans eveolved enough to no longer have weak immune systems that are suceptical(?) to the common cold? or does human kind take its precious time gettin' started on this..?

traits are carried from parent to child some reccesive some dominate. but i don't beleive that we as humans have or will ever "develope" new traits or through evolution "change" our genetic blueprints..

AMANAPLANACANALPANAMA


--------------------
Wanting to be someone else is a waste of the person you are -Kurt Cobain
       



     
Hotter than the left sink handle.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: uriahchase]
    #3860201 - 03/02/05 10:14 PM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Natural selection doesn't take its full course on humans. The sick, deformed, brain-dead, and weak all get to mate and have kids.


--------------------
I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: uriahchase]
    #3861578 - 03/03/05 08:40 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

*why hasn't our bodies "evolved" since there has been record of history<~~~~~??

Because recorded history is FAR shorter of a time span than evolution occurs in. We have a few thousand years of recorded history. Evolution takes millions of years.

any way why haven't humans eveolved enough to no longer have weak immune systems that are suceptical(?) to the common cold?

Don't forget that the common cold is mutating constantly and thus is MUCH more able to adapt to our immune systems than our immune systems are able to adapt to the cold virus.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: freddurgan]
    #3861756 - 03/03/05 09:59 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
God you are so wrong.




Again someone said that my theory is wrong with no "concrete proof"

Quote:

Now, the way it actually works is that some of the quadripeds were born better at walking on two legs.




Im guessing that you were there to record these evolutionary changes. (doubt it) You are basing your "theory" on scientific events that have only been discovered in the past 100 years or so.

What really happened millions of years ago is still only speculation....a "theory".


So my "theory" of divine intervention holds as much water as your "theory" of only random mutations.

You can no more prove your theory than I can prove mine.

That's why its called a THEORY


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: trendal]
    #3861779 - 03/03/05 10:05 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
any way why haven't humans eveolved enough to no longer have weak immune systems that are suceptical(?) to the common cold?

Don't forget that the common cold is mutating constantly and thus is MUCH more able to adapt to our immune systems than our immune systems are able to adapt to the cold virus.




Also the single-celled, cold virus can "evolve" much faster than the highly complicated mulit-cellular entities that we have become. That is why no one can prove the theory of "human evolution".

We nave observed "evolution" in these single-celled organisms and made a big "leap of faith" and said that human evolution must evolve in the "exact" same manner as the single celled creatures.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3861793 - 03/03/05 10:11 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

probably what is at the root of confusion and disagreement here is the nature of randomness or god.

it is presumed that we are in a fractal universe and that all representations are statistically turbulent and at the same time co-relative on several scales of examination (teh patterns repeat gloriously).

this relative aspect of fractals and their tendency to repeat at jumps in scale according to their unique signatures makes one feel as if in the hands of a greater being.

this great one either is the fractal essence (randomness) or creates with the principle of randomness in every stroke.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3862051 - 03/03/05 11:19 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
probably what is at the root of confusion and disagreement here is the nature of randomness or god....



this great one either is the fractal essence (randomness) or creates with the principle of randomness in every stroke.





:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:



I believe that for the most part it is a random system, that can be manipulated by a "higher conscience" if "it" deems it necessary.


And their is no way to prove or disprove either theory. :whoa:

Arguing about who is right and who is wrong is pointless.


:peace: :peace: :peace:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3862073 - 03/03/05 11:23 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

If you cannot prove/disprove your idea, it is not a theory. It is dogma.

Hasn't this already been pointed out, several times?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 5 months, 21 days
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: trendal]
    #3862085 - 03/03/05 11:25 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

google: lamarckism


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,063
Re: Evolutionary changes [Re: niteowl]
    #3862086 - 03/03/05 11:25 AM (19 years, 30 days ago)

I would give in to that and would definitely be on guard about that meddling "higher consciousness" which can manipulate randomness.

but that has nothing to do with your testicles
that part was really really ridiculous unless you have an unique relationship with the higher consciousness and or randomness itself

Edited by redgreenvines (03/03/05 11:26 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Trendal's Unified Theory of Existence
( 1 2 all )
trendalM 3,012 36 07/28/05 09:53 PM
by Silversoul
* The telescopic nature of the evolutionary paradigm
( 1 2 all )
exclusive58 5,031 26 02/16/06 04:39 PM
by Annom
* Evolutionary value of psilocybin?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
butter_flyfish 10,273 90 11/27/02 09:46 AM
by Xlea321
* The Gaia Hypothesis, evolutionary morality and the next step
( 1 2 3 all )
Moonshoe 7,432 50 10/22/06 04:21 AM
by slaphappy
* Paradigm Shifts and Aeonics
( 1 2 all )
MiddlemanM 4,126 25 03/05/14 03:30 PM
by LunarEclipse
* race as an evolutionary mechanism?
( 1 2 all )
SpecialEd 4,062 25 12/19/03 11:39 PM
by SpecialEd
* On the inadequacy of evolutionary theory Ped 2,330 16 05/04/07 12:37 PM
by MushroomTrip
* Evolutionary Spirituality
( 1 2 all )
Silversoul 2,817 31 01/19/07 06:10 PM
by Noveltyhead

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
11,010 topic views. 0 members, 8 guests and 22 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 16 queries.