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OfflineadeptMind
Aestetiker paaFlugt

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Santa Ana, Costa Rica
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
no return?
    #3851349 - 03/01/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So...

I'm in a great dilemma. I have started to walk down the path of enlightenment and I have begun my search for the unknown inside my head, concentrating more energy to find answers herein than in the outside world.

And know comes my problem. I started my trip by taking a philosophy course at school 3 years ago and ever since that my trip has slowly, but steadily proceeded and through readings, drugs, meditation (or more contemplation), I have started to notice something extremely scary. The deeper I dig, the more I want to know! Not surprisingly at all, but what follows is. Before I started any of this I was a happy, carefree boy with an appetite for life and the day that couldn't be satisfied. Now I realized that what has once come to my mind, will never disappear again; the truths you've recognized cannot be forgotten again. And also that many of the truths about humanity and this earthly life I truly loath. Things I have come to discover about mankind and the worlds of the mind has driven me away from society into being loosing my appetite for the day that comes, as I am now more concerned with the matter of the mind.
Just to make it clear - I don't do a lot of drugs, so that is not the reason for my world alienation.

Now this scares me. I don't wanna loose my appetite for life, because I realize the frauds and failures of mankind. But still I feel so vigorously drawn to the subject of the mind, that I want to know more.
Yet I know that more knowledge might destroy me even more.

So my question to you guys is:

Is it worth it? Is worth sacrifices the happiness of ignorance? Cause this is indeed happiness!

Thanks


--------------------
'Og jeg vil ikke have en Student,
Som ligger og laeser om Natten,
Jeg vil have en Officier,
Som gaaer med Fjaer udi Natten'



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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: no return? [Re: adeptMind]
    #3851439 - 03/01/05 12:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ignorance truly is bliss, or so they say.

If you want my opinion, I say yes: it IS worth it. You have a new addiction, it appears, an addiction to knowledge. I've been an addict my whole life, and I don't plan on rehab (the psych ward?) any time soon.

I mean, if you're going to be addicted to something...why not knowledge itself?


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 19,674
Re: no return? [Re: trendal]
    #3851547 - 03/01/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the question is not "if I should learn?" but "what is worth learning?", like with the magic Geinie - you get three wishes:
the first wish should definitely cover the shortage: "I wish I had 100 more wishes" - "No says the geinie! now you have just 2 wishes left"

so you may get a raw deal by trying to be smart.

but it still makes sense to be smart - to learn what can bring more wisdom so that when you learn you do not become dumber or more unhappy.

So I do reccommend learning as much as possible about "recovery from error" or basic vitality and elasticity and being able to bounce back, both in health and humour as well as any scholarly pursuit.

Dignity is important and from my point of view a readiness to let go and start fresh. This has to be learned or unlearned but it is very very important and it relates to the primary post, for when the slate is clear a kind of fresh happy state emerges.

Good luck there is no refund anyway.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: no return? [Re: adeptMind]
    #3851734 - 03/01/05 01:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This is a good topic! I think the feeling you are experiencing comes from feeling the weight of responsibility in a new way.

Knowledge is power and power commands added responsibility from you.

It's normal at times as an adult weighted with responsibilities to long for the care free days of child hood. Do you really want to go back to all of it? Childhood was full of scary unknowns and it wasn't as carefree as you remember, hell you were hardly even free to make your own choices and decisions for yourself because someone knew better then you.

Fear is usually the result of facing a dark unknown. The more light/information/knowledge you shed on the dark unknowns of life, the less there is to fear.

Before I became a conscientious seeker of experiential knowledge I lived in a lot of fear. Now, fear is a joke to me, a virtual game of hide and seek played with the self and I feel safe and secure within myself and life now.

I say seeking knowledge is very worth it! I'm glad I went after all I have.

Remember, the uneasiness just comes from feeling the extra power and responsibility that comes with more knowledge. Once you know more, excuses don't fly and taking responsibility kicks in.

"I didn't know I wasn't suppose to walk on grandmas new carpet with mud on my shoes"

" I didn't know I would get shocked if I stuck a scissors in the outlet"

"I didn't know my bike would get run over if I left it in the driveway"

Being rushed to the hospital, "I didn't know there are some snakes you can't pet"

Maybe in the aethers ignorance is bliss but here in the physical on planet earth, ignorance rarely pays. Greater awareness and knowledge does!


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMegaloMello
potatoe.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 51
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: no return? [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #3852007 - 03/01/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It seems to me this alienation you have...this loathing of society...is just another obstacle on your path to enlightenment.

It seems weird for you to have this idea of losing an appetite for life while in the pursuit of knowledge. To me, it seems you would gain a bigger appetite! I don't know of any instances where happiness didn't fall right in line with enlightenment. :stoned:


--------------------
ride...


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OfflineWildRunner
Obey little,Resist much

Registered: 02/13/05
Posts: 286
Loc: Where the wild things are
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: no return? [Re: adeptMind]
    #3852009 - 03/01/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I an currently sharing the same feelings that you are going through. I think whats important is to find a comfort level inwhich you can maintain. Do what you can, tred as lightly as you can, and really, just try to be comfortable. Also one thing thats really important with the path of discovery, is not to judge people. Its fuckin hard dude, but its really important not to judge ignorance.


--------------------
If you dont know where you're going, any road will take you there.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: no return? [Re: WildRunner]
    #3852045 - 03/01/05 02:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Are you a leader or a fallower? Remember, all of the lesser lemmings follow the leader of the cliff... It comes down to are you swayed by others? Or is your belief inherently your own despite the implications?

(Bad example I know) But are you going to follow someone else off the cliff, or are you going to lead them off of it? (Note: It's a metaphorical cliff  :laugh:)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineGomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,866
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 month, 27 days
Re: no return? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3852174 - 03/01/05 03:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"We do not only return, as we make again.."
-Unknown :P


--------------------


--------------------
Disclaimer!?


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InvisibleSinbad
Living TheMoment
Male

Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
Re: no return? [Re: WildRunner]
    #3852178 - 03/01/05 03:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Its a hard thing on the path, learning not to judge the ignorant, i agree. Whats also hard is comming to terms with the fact that once you have realized something deeply, you no longer occupy the same mindspace that the majority of our materialistic society does.

But that doesnt make us any better people, we have to understand that suffering is suffering, whether we are spiritualists or materialists, and have compassion for ourselves as well as others.

To discover why we suffer, is the same as discovering why all beings suffer, in this we can be humble and compassionate, otherwise we fall into the spiritual ego trap, whereby we view ourselves as more important or higher than anyone who doesnt share our view. In short we lose our sense of equinimity.

We become like a spiritual bully, which isnt the best condition for real self discovery.


--------------------


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: no return? [Re: adeptMind]
    #3852269 - 03/01/05 03:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The real truth can only be pleasant because you have been born out of that truth, and you are part of it, you are adjusted to it by birth. Illusions are the things that trully can make you suffer. Truth will set you free. If you find yourself hurting over some truth, know that you are only seeing a tip of the iceberg. Once you see the whole picture you can not suffer because life is as pure and precise as a mathematical equation. Every number in a mathematical equation is in perfect balance because everything makes sense.
Suffering comes from lack of knowledge, or partial knowledge (this is the most dangerous version)

So of course, most people are going to say. If I don't know that the gurl next door was raped, I'm happy. I do know it now, so i suffer.
Truth suffers. But what if you knew every molecule in the universe by heart? The history of every atom, including the atoms in the girl and the villain? If you knew what makes the villain tick and what makes the girl suffer, if you knew the villain as much as yourself, more than yourself. Like some imaginary (or real) god knows everything.
You would not feel anger, or sadness, but feel the glory of the system.
There is truth above truth. A child plays on the street and does not know there is a man with a scary mask around the corner. So the child is not hurt by feelings of fear. If a child does see the man, it feels fear. Those of you who stop there and do not look further will say that truth hurts. But if the child should stick around and wait, the man would take out the mask and show his face. And it would be the child's loving father. See? Truth above truth. Partial truth hurts. The ultimate truth can only feel good because everything makes perfect sense.

So continue on your quest for truth, and one day you may begin feeling relief nad joy again if you come far enough. From there on, you can only feel better and better. I'm not saying you will get more emotional and happy, no, you will feel the strong but calm joy and you will have perfect peace.

good luck


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineadeptMind
Aestetiker paaFlugt

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Santa Ana, Costa Rica
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
Re: no return? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3852514 - 03/01/05 04:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you all for many nice replies.

Though, I feel I have to elaborate a bit on the feeling of scare that I tried to delineate before.

I feels like the more knowledge I get, the deeper I dive into the ocean of the Mind, contemplating life, the more an aesthetic spectator I become. It feels like the more I search for the deeper meanings of my life and the people surrounding me, the more I feel life is passing by, while I sit in my corner, looking out my window, living in other peoples' lifes, dwelling on the web society has spun for us all instead of engaging truly in my own life. Like a bad existentialist - spectating life from the sideline instead of living it.

This is the feeling I feel is overwhelming me. This is what scares me. Not as much to gain dangerous knowledge as to only catch a glimpse of what was my time!


--------------------
'Og jeg vil ikke have en Student,
Som ligger og laeser om Natten,
Jeg vil have en Officier,
Som gaaer med Fjaer udi Natten'



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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: no return? [Re: adeptMind]
    #3852602 - 03/01/05 04:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Good you elaborated. Ha Ha yes, you have been moving into the observer self, the witness to it all. That's also a normal part of it. I understand exactly what our are talking about, the feeling of watching life pass you by as it looses material meaning.

How to give it new meaning and feel like a cohesive interactive part of it once you pass that point of no return is the question.


Beats me. The closest I have come is that I have been working on integrating the observer self, the back seat watcher into the ego slot of the front drivers seat. Its working and I have gained a lot of tangibility back to the astectics you talked about with out loosing much of the observers awareness.

I put my new found meaning into the act of creating itself, not the material creations themselves or what materializes I should also say.

Maybe I will be able to add more later. Others may have more as this is being clarified.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineMegaloMello
potatoe.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 51
Last seen: 10 years, 9 months
Re: no return? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #3852660 - 03/01/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Props, OldWood, mighty props. That was quite eloquently put. Magnifique!

And about the life passing you by as you delve into your mind...I've had those kind of thoughts SO often. But I have a general tendency towards inertia...just not taking action. I don't really have those kind of thoughts when I'm getting heavy on the essence of life though (holy moments). It's a fulfilling process for me. It's just that there is much more to life than this...such a wide range of experiences...though the experiences can all be brought down to the essentia of life...truth...knowledge.

:smile:


--------------------
ride...


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