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Offlinehollowellreid
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Overlay?
    #3849603 - 03/01/05 12:31 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Here is my Setup. It's GT on straw, 50/50 verm/coir casing layer. Been fruiting for about 8 or 9 days now, and I think I'm beginning to see the very first stages of Knotting, so hopefully pins in a day or two. I think I also have a light overlay happening, GT grew like a mofo on straw, I've never seen Myc grow so strong or fast. Any pointers on how to get the best pinset? I think It will all work out ok, but let me know if you have any pointers to make the most of it.

Thanks!









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InvisibleNeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)

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Re: Overlay? [Re: hollowellreid]
    #3849634 - 03/01/05 12:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

looks like healthy rhizos to me... i don't see any overlay... yet, but definately get them suckahs fruited :stoned:


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Overlay? [Re: hollowellreid]
    #3849652 - 03/01/05 12:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Looking Good :thumbup:

:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Overlay? [Re: KaptKid]
    #3851067 - 03/01/05 10:24 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thats not overlay. I'll show you some though. And how it fruited anyway. Note the yellowing hardening look. These arent even really bad yet, its just starting here. When its bad is when you have a hardened mat of mycelium on the surface. Thats overlay. These are also GT's. Also the strongest (not quickest though) growth of all strains I've tried. So strong that I couldnt get it to switch to fruiting and ended up overlaying most of my first GT's. I had to learn to birth them before other casings and I started cold shocking them (at the point where your casing looks like, I would cover and fridge for 12-24 hours).




By the way, the top two pics are on about day 14 in the fruiting chamber after 3 days in the incubator. It takes some time to get to that point. My sub was rye at the time. GT's did great on straw though, much more impressive. Good luck!



--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Overlay? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3859979 - 03/02/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, but that certainly IS overlay. Coir typically results in overlay. I have no idea why people use it.


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3860007 - 03/02/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomGod said:
Sorry, but that certainly IS overlay. Coir typically results in overlay. I have no idea why people use it.




McMan started the coco coir craze, funny how it blossomed. Yet, it's not an ideal casing layer as you mentioned.. Strange how things work out, eh?


--------------------
To find a place to live between the negatives and positives.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Overlay? [Re: Holydiver]
    #3860214 - 03/03/05 12:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Coir works out fine for me, i typically use a random mix but i probably put in more verm., but other mixes would give better aeration...Like peat, but they're more work, changing the ph and such..thats probably why its so widely used, less hassle and less work :smirk:

-Gnostic


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Overlay? [Re: Holydiver]
    #3864527 - 03/03/05 09:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, Diver, I actually lied about not understanding the fad toward overlaid casings. I do understand, but I don't like it. I think the deal is that while overlay doesn't allow impressive yields down the road, it doesn't harm too much the first flush. Many folks are happy with one flush and consider the rest pure bonus anyway. I can understand that mentality, but it isn't really how a casing is supposed to work. In reality nearly 40% of your crop will be in the later two to four flushes!

Also, a second factor about overlaid casing gaining popularity is that they are harder to contaminate from over humidification. Remember ideally the growth chamber should be only 85-92% relative humidity, yet that's not really possible with most simple setups which often almost instantly achieve 100% relative humidity. At a constant 100% relative humidity, ones casing, UNLESS overlaid, will probably contaminate before the second or third flush.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3865850 - 03/04/05 02:15 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Overlaid casings are not in high popularity. Coir is, which is what you said you didnt understand the popularity of it. Its simple, coir/verm is way better then verm by itself. Peat moss needs a buffer. Coir can give excellent results with out buffer usage and you can easily stop overlay. You just need to be carful and time initiation correctly and maintain correct moisture content. People often start with coir/verm and stick with it because it works.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: Overlay? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3865968 - 03/04/05 02:50 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Didn't work for me at all.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post2521838

Check out my thread above. I think coir works if you want to turn your casing into a substrate. Why not use manure or something if that's what you want?


Edited by Blue Helix (03/04/05 02:51 AM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Overlay? [Re: Blue Helix]
    #3866019 - 03/04/05 03:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That's not due to what you used, it was the user.

It can work, you just need to critique what you were doing and should have learned from your mistakes...Either your humidty was to high or you put it in the FC to late or any of a million possiablies.....


And manure as a casing...well i think that explains why you messed up your casing layer....WoW nOOb....

Casing layers has 3 reasons for being used

Provides moisture to sub.
Protects from contams...kinda
And something else...

They never contain nutes, manure Defiently contains nutes, don't bad mouth something that you don't understand.

And i totally didnt mean to sound like an asshole, My condolences

-Gnostic


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Overlay? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3867159 - 03/04/05 11:48 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What I am saying is that coir DOES contain nutrients. It can be digested by cubensis. That is why it is not sutiable for a casing layer. If you are going with coir, just go with manure, same difference.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3867259 - 03/04/05 12:36 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can get a jar of moisten verm to colonize. Does this mean that verm also contains nutes? Sure coir has small nutes...no where near manure though. I'd like to see you fruit off of coir if that is the case.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Overlay? [Re: hollowellreid]
    #3868437 - 03/04/05 05:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know if cubensis will fruit off coir or not. I was wondering that too. Has anyone else tried that?


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3868451 - 03/04/05 05:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Lol, coir is widely used w/ cubes, it's all i use, im to lazy to use ph buffers so i Have to use striaght verm. or verm/coir....Verm by itself doesn't give aeration tho, coir makes it more airly and makes it to where the myc. makes pockets...:thumbup:

-Gnostic


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Overlay? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3868564 - 03/04/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

scatmanrav, in your bottom black tub, I don't see any overlay. You did that with coir? If that is coir, how deep is it, and how did you initiate to make the mycellium to stop before overlay? I know you can't be initiating like peat moss to get that kind of effect. That's what I did, and maybe that's why I had all those overlay problems.


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3871912 - 03/05/05 06:09 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

All of everything I've done has been coir/verm. Havnt tried peat moss yet...I want to...I just get really big bricks of coir.

The black tub is straw about 4 inches thick. Coir/verm+buffer about 1/2-3/4" on top. When they looked like this:

They get cased and incubated for 3-4 days (high 70's) and look like this:

Then I patch the white spots..mist well and fruit it. The mycelium is just below the surface. My chamber is 74-82 most of the time so I do iniate a bit earlier then to my roommates closet that runs a bit lower in temps.

Waiting to long can definatly lead to overlay. As can misting the coir/verm to much. If you continue misting the mycelium stays in vegatative growth and doesnt switch to pin mode.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineShroomGod
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Registered: 02/18/99
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Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Overlay? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3872132 - 03/05/05 08:51 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

That is interesting because it is a little different than what I do with 50:50 casings. For one you stop misting. That is totally different. I never stop misting using 50:50 unless the casing is really just too wet. Also from the looks of those pictures, you are initiating fruiting a little bit earlier than I would with a 50:50 casing. Your casing depth is also a little bit more shallow than I would normally use with a 4" thick straw substrate--but lately I've been going back to manure/rye trays. I would probably go closer to 1" with 50:50 on a 4" straw.

Its really interesting that you still use a buffer with coir. I never did a search about this, but I wouldn't have thought of it since the trouble hasn't been that mycellium won't grow in coir (quite the opposite, the mycellium seems to eat it). Some types of coir have a lowish pH, but the real thing that bothers me is that coir never has much buffering capacity so swings even lower real easily. That's bad down the road when the pH starts to depress from mycelium waste. The buffer then would do the trick to keep pH up.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/05/05 08:57 AM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3872477 - 03/05/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Some types of coir have a lowish pH, but the real thing that bothers me is that coir never has much buffering capacity so swings even lower real easily. That's bad down the road when the pH starts to depress from mycelium waste. The buffer then would do the trick to keep pH up. "

:thumbup: Caclium carbonate or crushed oyster shells are definatly a benefit when using even coir. I used it, stopped using it, noticed a difference and went back.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinehyphae
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Re: Overlay? [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3872766 - 03/05/05 02:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

ShroomGod said:
Sorry, but that certainly IS overlay.  Coir typically results in overlay.  I have no idea why people use it.




FYI "Overlay" is a thick impervious mat of vegetative mycelial growth which can be triggered several ways most commonly forceful mistings knocking down the myc, delayed fruiting initiation or using a non generative capable strain (veg only) of myc. Surface colonization should be even with spots of myc everywhere by the time the transition from vegetative growth to generative growth has been completed. This is your critical time that separates the pros from the newbies. The term "Overlay" has indeed been overly misused IMHO.
What a shame  :sad:


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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