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OfflineSoK
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runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too
    #3848368 - 02/28/05 08:14 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Well here goes, I now have my WBS methods down, and i'll be using as much as is neccessary to spawn my straw/dung into 4 12"x12"x6"deep bins, that will be put into 2-55 gal perlite humidified sterlite tubs.  My procedures i'd like checked/commented/ripped apart (all are welcome and very much appreciated :smile: ) is as follows:

1. colonize WBS jars
2. soak, drain, and pasteurize dung in spawn bags via oven tek
3. straw pasteurized via shroomgods tek (metal tub dunk)
4. layer straw, WBS, dung, WBS, straw, etc. in small bins, and allow to colonize, case and fruit in large bins.

or

1. colonize WBS jars
2. soak dung (saving poo water)
3. soak straw in poo water
4. mix and bag 1:4 ratio of poo:straw in spawnbags and pasteurize via oven tek
5. Layer mix, wbs, mix, etc. in small bins, colonize, case and fruit in large bins

My 2 questions are:
1. Do i just put a layer or 2 of foil down on the oven rack to set the spawnbags on for the oven pastuerization?

2. how full (weight or how far up the bag) should i fill a large mycosupply.com spawn bag (size 21 x 8.25 x 4.75")?

thanks so much for reading and any inputs!


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Offlineerags
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3848517 - 02/28/05 08:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Your second approach seems more simplified, go with that. No sense seprately pastuerizing them; just hydrate and mix one batch of dung( should be dry and old) and straw, then oven it is bags.  A foaf doesn't personally feel like layering will make a difference to the myc, just dont pack it hard.

Quote:

1. Do i just put a layer or 2 of foil down on the oven rack to set the spawnbags on for the oven pastuerization?



- sure a baking tray or whatever will hold them.

Quote:

2. how full (weight or how far up the bag) should i fill a large mycosupply.com spawn bag (size 21 x 8.25 x 4.75")?



- I'd put as much in an oven bag as you'll be putting in the tray/boxed used for the casing. That way you can keep it all separate and handle it less (less chance of conatm). Keep in mind you'll want to monitor the heat in the bags with a thermometer so make sure the probe is in the middle of a oven bag and they are all of uniform shape.

:mushroomgrow:      checkout a foaf's Phase 5                              :goodluck:


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: erags]
    #3851035 - 03/01/05 10:05 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

great thanks, my procedure then is:
1. colonize WBS jars
2. soak dung (saving poo water)
3. soak straw in poo water
4. mix and bag 1:4 ratio of poo:straw in spawnbags and pasteurize via oven tek
5. Layer mix, wbs, mix, etc. in small bins, colonize, case and fruit in large bins

few more Q's...
1. do i pack the substrate in the bags as tight as possible?
2. do i need to remove all the air from the bags before pastuerizing? or do they just need to be loosely sealed?
3. how many cc's of spores should i use per bag? (won't be using liquid mycelium)? i'm guessing like 5 or 6 per heavily packed bag, or should i use more? thanks again all


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Offlineerags
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3851121 - 03/01/05 10:51 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

1. do i pack the substrate in the bags as tight as possible?



-light pack only

Quote:

2. do i need to remove all the air from the bags before pastuerizing? or do they just need to be loosely sealed?



- its not too important just squeeze what air you can out of it twist and tie the end off with string. Air shoudl be able to get out through this small opening and the probe should be able to go in through it.

Quote:

3. how many cc's of spores should i use per bag? (won't be using liquid mycelium)? i'm guessing like 5 or 6 per heavily packed bag, or should i use more?



-Injecting spores direclty into a bulk substrate will have limited success. Consider doing a few jars of grainspawn to add to the pateurized cooled bulk subst.


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: erags]
    #3851192 - 03/01/05 11:18 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

alright, so u would reccomend just breaking up a WBS cake into each of the pastuerized bags for inoculation? lets say i manage to get 5 lbs of substrate into each bag, would you use 1 or 2 (or more) half pints per bag? thanks a lot for your help!


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3851216 - 03/01/05 11:26 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

You should use 10-25%. I dont know how much 5 lbs of bulk would be, depend on your substrate exactly, but say its 10 quarts of bulk in the bag..you'd need 1-3 quarts to inoculate it. So that would be 4-12 half pints. Thats why we use grain when we do bulk. Chances are 5 lbs is less then the 10 quarts..just giving you the numbers..

You can use less...as little as 1%...but you'll find everything going better with 10-25%


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineCyber
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3851244 - 03/01/05 11:36 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Layering seems a bit much.

I get the trays ready and clean, get a clean jar, put on gloves, sterilize the gloves with alcohol (Spray my hands, rub, and let dry)

I use a 2:1 ratio of substrate to spawn (it is just me), so Ill measure 2 jars of substrate into the tray, open 1 jar of spawn and add it to the substrate. Then using my (gloved) fingers I break up the large chunks of spawn and mix it up in the container. Cover it and let it sit and colonize for about 7 days.

Once it is colonized I case and move to fruiting chamber.

It seems to work for me :grin:





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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: Cyber]
    #3851449 - 03/01/05 12:39 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Cyber said:
Layering seems a bit much.

I get the trays ready and clean, get a clean jar, put on gloves, sterilize the gloves with alcohol (Spray my hands, rub, and let dry)

I use a 2:1 ratio of substrate to spawn (it is just me), so Ill measure 2 jars of substrate into the tray, open 1 jar of spawn and add it to the substrate. Then using my (gloved) fingers I break up the large chunks of spawn and mix it up in the container. Cover it and let it sit and colonize for about 7 days.

Once it is colonized I case and move to fruiting chamber.

It seems to work for me :grin:






using a 2:1 ratio, how many jars of sub, in the end, do u use per casing? and is this straw also?

how might i more accuratly know about how many jars i have in each spawn bag?

i got some good numbers(weight wise) from i think anno on his website, a 1/2 pint jar = 1.75oz of substrate DRY, so i guess a safe guess is prob. a hair over 2oz of substrate per 1/2 pint, so my calculations tell me that, for a five pound bag, i'd need a half pound of spawn @ 10% by weight, so i believe only 4 half pinters per bag

not much at all really, i could use 1 12cc syringe (since i now make my own) to noc up 12 jars, have those colonized and spawn them to 3 bags at 5 lbs each to have 15 lbs of substrate + 1.5lbs from WBS = 16.5lbs total... so can anyone w/ experience and some math skill tell me how large of a bin i could/should fill w/ a lil over 16lbs of substrate? man... i could then spawn all that to a BIG bin of straw if i wanted and have quite a nice size garden goin, but that might take too long

thanks all for reading!

damnit, i can't get this quote to stop surrounding my post, sorry guys


Edited by SoK (03/01/05 12:47 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3851487 - 03/01/05 12:47 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

You wouldnt want to spawn to bulk then spawn the bulk to more bulk anyway..you would just mix it all up at once. I really can't tell with weight. All substrates will weigh different and it will depend on how much straw/poo/compost is there plus how much water each substrate holds varies. Hope you get better answers then this, good luck!


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3851524 - 03/01/05 12:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

well i thought about it a bit more, and heres what i got:

-1/2 pint of WBS (moistened) =~2oz
-a 5lb bag = 80oz = 40 1/2 pints, 20 pints, 10 quarts
-10 quarts spawned @ 10% = 4 1/2 pints, 2 pints and 1 quart

just thought i'd throw that in here

:edit: well i guess i'll just do 3 bags @ 5 lbs, spawned in bag w/ 4 1/2 pints WBS, and once thats all colonized i'll figure out what size bin or tray i should case in, thanks all for the help and direction, i'll make sure i get some pics up when this all goes down over the next month or 2


Edited by SoK (03/01/05 12:58 PM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3851544 - 03/01/05 01:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Just make the bulk layer 1.5-4 inches in whatever container it will do that. 10 quarts would do 1 nice sized casing in a tub like the black one:



--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3851565 - 03/01/05 01:06 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

wow, if 10 quarts (1 5 lb bag) will get me a black tub i'd be set for life w/ only like 3 or 4 of them, thanks again all!


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Offlinepsilocyben
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x [Re: SoK]
    #3851683 - 03/01/05 01:34 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

just one possible adjustment to your procedure:
when i would break up cakes, i usually did it inside of a bag w/ a sterilized spoon.
it might pose less of a risk for contaminants


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OfflineCyber
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3852704 - 03/01/05 04:57 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SoK said:
Quote:

Cyber said:
Layering seems a bit much.

I get the trays ready and clean, get a clean jar, put on gloves, sterilize the gloves with alcohol (Spray my hands, rub, and let dry)

I use a 2:1 ratio of substrate to spawn (it is just me), so Ill measure 2 jars of substrate into the tray, open 1 jar of spawn and add it to the substrate. Then using my (gloved) fingers I break up the large chunks of spawn and mix it up in the container. Cover it and let it sit and colonize for about 7 days.

Once it is colonized I case and move to fruiting chamber.

It seems to work for me :grin:









using a 2:1 ratio, how many jars of sub, in the end, do u use per casing? and is this straw also?





All measurements are based on volume as apposed to weight.

So lets start with the substrate mix I make.

My substrate is a 3:2 ratio of vermiculite to cow poo. That is 60% vermiculite 40% cow poo by volume.

How do I make the substrate and get the right volume and ratio?

Ok lets say I have 12 x 1qt colonized WBS Jars and I need to make a BULK substrate. I want the ratio of substrate to spawn to be 2:1. 2 quarts of substrate to each quart of spawn. That would be 12 X 2 or 24qt's of substrate.

Ok now I need to determine the ratio mix of vermiculite to cow poo. I use a 3:2 ratio (60%/40%)

So i need 60% by volume of vermiculite
I need 24qts total.
24 X .60 = 14.40 quarts

I need 40% by volume of Cow Poo
I need to have 24 qts total.
24 X .40 = 9.60 quarts

Now we have a small problem. that would be .40 quarts vermiculite and .60 quarts cow poo. It came up with a odd amount (Not even quarts) so I would split it into .50 quarts of each, or 1 pint of each.

Now I need to do the water content and make it right. So what I do is to first measure out the vermiculite. (Put it into a bucket) add water and get the vermiculite to a consistency that is just a little wetter than you would for a PF Jar. Once I have this to the right water consistency I add the cow poo, mix it up real good, and load it into a oven safe bag to pasteurize.


Quote:


i got some good numbers(weight wise) from i think anno on his website, a 1/2 pint jar = 1.75oz of substrate DRY, so i guess a safe guess is prob. a hair over 2oz of substrate per 1/2 pint, so my calculations tell me that, for a five pound bag, i'd need a half pound of spawn @ 10% by weight, so i believe only 4 half pinters per bag





The reason that weight is not used is because weight is not accurate for this work.

For example 8qts of vermiculite can weight 1lbs when dry and 8lbs when wet. So if I tell you to mix 4 quarts of vermiculite you will always get the same measurement where if I was to tell you to just 1lb of vermiculite you may have too little or just enough.

Now when measuring the substrate out into casing trays I just use an empty quart jar and scoop out 2 quart jars of substrate to the casing container then add 1 jar of spawn. (2:1 ratio)

I do not use a bottom casing layer as I have never had a need for one.

How do you determine what the needed volume is in your casing try?

First take an empty casing tray and decide how deep you want to make the substrate. Put a mark on the casing tray where you want the substrate to end. (1", 2", etc)

Now take a quart jar and fill it with water. Add it to the empty casing tray and repeat until you get close to the desired depth. Count the number of jars you used to get to this depth.

For me the number came out easy. It was 3 quarts to the casing tray. Thus I use 2 quarts of substrate to 1 quart of spawn.

I have also used the measurements of the casing tray to determine the ratio of substrate to spawn. I had some smaller trays that measured 2 quarts. I did those at a 1:1 ratio.

I hope this helps you.


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: Cyber]
    #3857090 - 03/02/05 01:56 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

thanks very much cyber, that did help a lot few more Q's though

1. My bins i bought for fruiting in are 11.4 quarts each (about 5 or 6 inches deep). if i use a 1:4 ratio dung:straw should i fill these up w/ 10 quarts? how much would u recommend?
1. Are there any other ratio's you think would be more beneficial than a 1:4? thanks for the input


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OfflineCyber
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3857530 - 03/02/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SoK said:
thanks very much cyber, that did help a lot  few more Q's though





My pleasure, I kind of wish some one would have explained it to me when I started.  :grin:

Quote:


1. My bins i bought for fruiting in are 11.4 quarts each (about 5 or 6 inches deep).  if i use a 1:4 ratio dung:straw should i fill these up w/ 10 quarts? how much would u recommend?

1. Are there any other ratio's you think would be more beneficial than a 1:4? thanks for the input





Let me start by saying that I have not worked with straw. Most of my substrate has been a combination of cow poo, vermiculite, coco-coir, added nutrients etc. Straw is seasonal around here and vermiculite and coco-coir are not :wink:

So a 1:4 ratio sounds reasonable. I have worked with cow poo : vermiculite ratios of 1:1, 1:2, 1:3, 1:4, and 2:3 I personally have been working on tweaking it to get the best production. although everyone has different conditions so you kind of have to work with it and learn as you go.

When dealing with spawned substrate I would keep it less than 3" in depth. Do you intend to fruit in the same container or do you have a fruiting chamber?


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: Cyber]
    #3857567 - 03/02/05 04:07 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

the bins being cased are the 11.4Q, and 2 fit well (with space around them)into a 55 gallon sterlite tub w/ perlite for humidification. i also have a 30 gal airpump i feed into a pool of water- helps me w/ humidity and air exchange

would you suggest mixing some verm in w/ the dung/straw?


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OfflineCyber
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3857966 - 03/02/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SoK said:
the bins being cased are the 11.4Q, and 2 fit well (with space around them)into a 55 gallon sterlite tub w/ perlite for humidification. i also have a 30 gal airpump i feed into a pool of water- helps me w/ humidity and air exchange

would you suggest mixing some verm in w/ the dung/straw?




No dung and straw are fine. I buy cow poo from wal mart in 40lb bags and I get vermiculite from the local nursery in 20 kilo bags. I have just found it more available than straw and requiring less work (you do not have to chop it.)

You sound like you have your fruiting chamber worked out.

I personally like the Martha setup



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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: Cyber]
    #3861454 - 03/03/05 09:45 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

thanks for the info, yeah i'd love to switch it up to a martha but it would just be a lot of work/$ to get that, humidifiers, shelving, tubing etc. when i already have these ready to go... i may get another though at some point

last Q, if i were to stack 3 or 4 55gal fruiting chambers, would i floro running down the sides of them be adequate lighting to get vertical pinning and fruits? thx all!!!


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OfflineSoK
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Re: runnin my bulk procedure by you guys to see if i'm ready, Q's too [Re: SoK]
    #3867470 - 03/04/05 01:32 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

bump to my last Q anyone?


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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