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Invisibleadoseofparn0z
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Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens
    #3846995 - 02/28/05 03:54 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

Hi, weather has been varying between warm, cool and cold the past week or so with lots of rain in a normally fairly dry area. Humidity had been high due to all the rain, and the day after another set of rain followed by warm (60s-70s) temperature. The field searched through was on the edge of a wooded area, and the specimens found were growing in/edging cow manure. The mushrooms were somewhat dry (Midday, lacking humidity) but caps were tan/yellowish in the center then going to a gray color. The more dry the more gray than white they appeared to be. Caps were only a few centimenters in width, and stems were shorter than my palm, being . Few specimens were found, but all fit inside the palm of my hand. Mycelium was white and appeared to be rhizomorphic. The stems were a light brown/gray color towards the top, then slowly turning a much darker brown the farther down. After drying out the stems appear to be either a very dark brown or black. The caps/stems appeared to have bruised a bluish-green color when picked, but it did not look the same as a cube when bruised. They turned a darker shade and then appeared to have a blue/green tint. Spore print was black too, so they sound like the real thing to me but I'm still a bit scared to munch 'em down. What else could they be, and what do you guys think?


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Invisibleangryshroom
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: adoseofparn0z]
    #3847255 - 02/28/05 05:02 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

From your description, it sounds like a Copelandia cyan.

However, I dont know if now is the time to find them. I am very unfamiliar with Texas weather... I know you need to have some very warm temperatures.

Your best bet is to scan them or take a picture ....


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Offlinethedman
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: angryshroom]
    #3848920 - 02/28/05 10:00 PM (12 years, 1 day ago)

I dont think its the right time of year for copes but it is possible to find one or two,almost all the copes i find have a whitish yellow stem though and always turn very blue.


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Edited by thedman (02/28/05 10:02 PM)


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Offlinewds
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: thedman]
    #3850166 - 03/01/05 02:51 AM (12 years, 19 hours ago)

adoseofparn0z, i too am a texan, and was wondering, have you found any cubensis?

because i haven't seen anything (i went 2 days ago) in a field that explodes with them. i'm hoping they're still on their way.


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: wds]
    #3850830 - 03/01/05 07:08 AM (12 years, 14 hours ago)

These Definitely sound like Copeldias to me---the same Pan Cyans/Blue meanies that I find in central and north Florida. On the other hand, there is a species that grows side by side the psychadelic COpes called: "Panaeolus antillarum". Unfortunately the characteristics are almost identical and especially to the untrained eye, Copes can easily be mistaken for Antillarum's ( IM sure I have many times before). Since I have some experience?if you posted a pic, I would most likely be able to distinguish between a Pan Cyan (Cope) and a Pan Antillarum simply by there psychology and confirm this estimation?. but here are a few subtle characteristics that you can apply to your yield to try and set apart these 2 look a likes.
---Antillarums usually have a tad bit smoother, fleshier and whiter cap but just like the Copes, they do crack and become scaly with age. Copes also are more of a brown tanish color when younger but then again, P. antillarums occasionally possess a yellowish tint.

---The gills and sporeprints are basically the same however,
sometimes the gills on antillarums are a lighter grayish color and are spread out as opposed to the profound purplish/black color and compressed gills of the Cope. The younger antillarums usually have completely white gills like a specimen mushroom John shot down there. I also find that sometimes P. Anti's have a disformed cap---parts of it missing/ deteriorated or not quite saucer shaped.

---A Pan Cyan?s stem will usually be thinner and darker than that of an antillarum which can be a tad bit shorter, broad and also sometimes possess a silvery sheen.

---unfortunately, a matured antiullarum will be larger than that of a mature P. Cyan which is a bummer when you are separating the batch.
**The one thing which will definitely distinguish the 2 is the obvious and unambiguous bluing and bruising of the Copes. Actually, after a night of picking them, your hands can sometimes stain a bluish color.---however, you do not want them to turn blue for this oxidizes and destroys much of the delicate high content of Psilocin (Copes have a considerable larger amount of Psilocin thus making them much more potent than Cubes) The Good NEWS is that P. antillarums are not active (not psychedelic or poisonous so there is no need to be scared). The worse that can happen if you accidentally mistake and ingest one of these is your trip will be less intense than possibly predicted. Copelandias are my favorite species to ingest, 3 times more potent and I smoothly float into a anxiety/nausea-free colorful lucid journey . Mushroom John might have more to say but here are some pics that I snatched off the internet: The first one are the Blue meanies (Copelandia/Panaeolus cyanescens) and the rest of the non-active Antillarums. Notice the Bluing in the first pic?.good luck
- Southeast COPES

PAN ANTILLARUMS:



: notice the tinge of Blue around the top of the stem----this can be mistaken for a bruise indicating psychadelic Copes but this is actually just some spores that have dropped down and attached themselves---deceptive little fuckers.



Edited by PsillyNilly (03/01/05 09:26 AM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3851167 - 03/01/05 11:08 AM (12 years, 10 hours ago)

WHile sometimes Panaeolus antillarum will resemble a Copelandia mushroom, One noticible difference between the two species is that panaeolus antillarum's gill structure is very different than tah of the Copelandia mushrooms.

And generally they usually grow ata different time than the copelandia's. IF they are in the same manure bed, it is usually one or two panaeolus antillarums or a few copes, but that is kinda raqre in the field.

In Thailand and Southeast Asia they grow when the other species are not. You can find them in one field and not the other becaue they have a different time-life cycle then the other.

Here is one of my favorite pictrues of Panaeolus antillarum



A rice paddie square with many manure heaps of panaeolus antillarum. This is in the fields at ban hua Thanon.



A spot from down the highway at least 500 years away, a patch of Panaeolus antillarum and in front of it about six feet or so is a patch of P. cubensis in the same field. Rarely in the same manure together.


Here is a close up of some Panaeolus antillarum. One can notice the thicker stem of the P. antillarum to the thinner stallks of Copelndia species. Also the antillarum is more bell shaped than conic like the copes.

The gills, as noted above are different.



And then the Panaeolus antillarums tend to get very large. Here is Keyes Lloyd, a participant of the 2002 expedition to se Asia hol;ding some giant P. antillarums in his hands.


and same same person and shrooms


And here is a phto of Copelandia cyanescens caps with the gills showing to show differences in color and gill spacing of the two species.

This image was shot near Hanoi, North Viet-Nam.



And here is that of Panaeolus antillarum gill structure. Could not find the foto I wanted to use to make a better image comparison.


and a larger version of one posted above



So basically these two species are not too similar except in their white stages of developpement. With age the panaeolus antillrums get a silvery look to their caps and the stems began to stain an orange-yellowish color. Wehereas the caps of the Copelandias, as seen above, tend to oxidise from natural causes and stain blue.

mj


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OfflinePsillyNilly
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3851307 - 03/01/05 12:03 PM (12 years, 10 hours ago)

Ya the gill structure is a tad different but how would you describe it to somebody that is trying to distingush these two? the only thing that I could pinpoint out is that each individual fan is farther apart then the one beside it. Would you agree? In some cases, this shroom is easily ID'ed as a PAN Antilarrum but you have to admit that some (especially younger and smaller growths) come pretty goddam close to looking like a Cope. Your fourth picture down and my 2nd picture up look like Copes to me (besides the bluing which in my experience isn't always bruised when they are untouched or treated gently.) In the 2 fields where COpes grow, Antillarums do infact inhabit the same space. I also thing the Antillarrum has a differet feel when you rub your fingers against the edge of the cap like maybe little teeth from the gills extending out--? Well, Im just saying for a pro like you, it would be easy to scoot away the P.Anti's but for the average shroomerite picking a medium sized one out of a patty would most likely pass it off as a COPE. Ive never seen ones quite that big in Florida and thank god these arent poisonous or it probably would get alot more recognition such as the Galerina/P.Cyan-stnzii disasterous mixups. A part of it is probably denial too----it sucks to throw away your biggest shrooms from a hunt.


Edited by PsillyNilly (03/01/05 02:44 PM)


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3851550 - 03/01/05 01:04 PM (12 years, 8 hours ago)

The mixture regarding galerina species is with p. stuntzii and p. cyanescens, never with P. azurescens. And then again, that is only a macroscopic similarity of the caps colors and shapes from above.l The stems of Stuntziis are white to yellow-straw as are the stems of the cyanescens which are pure white while the stems of Galerinas are orangey and have a white to orange ring on the stems, a feature not not on cyanescens and the blue ring of the stunzii separates it from Galerinas and Conocye filaris which have orange rings.

In Hawaii and in Thailand I have photographed both panaeolus sphinctrinus and Conocybe species growing in the same cow dungs as Copelandia's but have never seen Copelandia in the same cow pie as Panaeolus antillarum.

mj


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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3851999 - 03/01/05 02:41 PM (12 years, 7 hours ago)

OOps ya sorry, PNW/cold weather species isnt really my forte'---ill edit that out but you kinda get my point. Just saying you dont have to be as cautious with Antillarum as you do with the other poisounous Look-a-likes. I dont think Ive ever seen the same 2 species growin out of the same actual pie but I have seen them both in the same field. Hunting season is around the bend down here in FL so Ill post some pics of a mixture of Copes and P. Anti's in the same batch


Edited by PsillyNilly (03/01/05 02:46 PM)


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Offlinewds
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: PsillyNilly]
    #3852221 - 03/01/05 03:23 PM (12 years, 6 hours ago)

i know this sounds stupid, but do cope cyans blue? (i don't see any blue in the pics)


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Invisibleadoseofparn0z
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: wds]
    #3852813 - 03/01/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 4 hours ago)

I definitely don't plan on letting anyone put what I found in their mouth, so I suppose I'll just wait til we get some shroomy weather again to worry about getting a positive ID. All of the ones picked are already really dried out, and the stems of the only two of a decent size appear to be black. I doubt you'd even be able to tell they are mushrooms if I scanned them now. They've been beaten up pretty badly since they were first picked.

I did however take a pretty decent sized cow patty from the field that wasn't fruiting (I only found two that had that kind of mushroom on it) that is colonized all the way through the center with mycelium. The mycelium looks very rhizomorphic, and is the same color as the mycelium of cubensis. Is there anything I could do with the mycelium to find out if it was indeed copelandia cyanescens I found, other than fruiting? I'm going to try to get it to fruit, but currently I don't know a damned thing about cultivating this species. Any suggestions?


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OfflineToxicManM
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: wds]
    #3852820 - 03/01/05 05:18 PM (12 years, 4 hours ago)

Yes. The species epithet (cyanescens) means "becoming blue".

Happy mushrooming!


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: wds]
    #3854185 - 03/01/05 10:11 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

If you click on the first image in this pictorial you will see bluing in both stems and caps of the psilocine oxidizing.

The first image is by GGreatOne234 of Florida.

mj


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Re: Need ID - Possible Central TX Copelandia Cyanescens [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3855057 - 03/02/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

ah, very interesting toxicman,
thanks mj, i missed that pic


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