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 NeedMoreSleep
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 Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... 
#3846742 - 02/28/05 12:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK, so when I'm blitzed (like I am now  ) I get some weird ideas sometimes. I've done some searching on here to no avail, so here's my idea, ya'll tell me if its possible. I've read that germination of spores in a bulk substrate doesn't go to well, that's why typically you would use something fully colonized, usually any grain, to spawn the bulk sub. I was thinking about making a liquid mycellium culture directly in a sprayer. Like a weed sprayer, or a fertilizer sprayer if you know what I'm talking about. Put some broken glass, or marbles, or something in there to break up the mycellium. When the liquid mycellium culture is nice and thick, lay down like 1/4 of the bulk sub, give a light spray over it, lay another 1/4 of bulk sub, give another light spray, and so on till you get all the bulk sub that you're gonna use. I'm thinking that if you already knew how you're going to do this, then with a couple experimental runs you could get the moisture contect of the bulk sub just right for this. And with an even and layered spray of liquid mycellium, the spores are already germinated and the mycellium should take off at a fairly fast and even manner. IF this works out to be something that is fairly reliable it would save lots of time by cutting out the grain. Obviously grain provides nutes and such, so a bulk sub like dung would have to be used that has nutes in it... Anyway, like I said, I'm toasted right now, so thoughts/comments/I-told-ya-so's/flames/whatever are welcome, no offense taken
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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korins
Antisocialite
Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 221
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 Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3846838 - 02/28/05 01:14 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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This may work, but I still see grain as a better way to go.
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 RogerRabbit
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: korins]
#3846849 - 02/28/05 01:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Liquid doesn't inoculate bulk substrates very well. That is why grain is standard.
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: RogerRabbit]
#3846869 - 02/28/05 01:22 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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korins: could you elaborate on why you think grain would be a better way to go???
RogerRabbit: I'm seriously not trying to start anything here, but do you have any conclusive evidence that liquid mycellium doesn't inoculate bulk subs very well??? Link maybe??? I'm seriously interested in the findings if someone has tried this before...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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Viaggio
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847017 - 02/28/05 01:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about liquefying mycelium? If so, I think it's cool idea, but I doubt it will work. Mycelium is kind of like a collection of roots that feed the fungi cells. If there's no feeding mechanism, I don't think the cells can survive for long.
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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Viaggio]
#3847029 - 02/28/05 02:02 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, let me clarify... I'm basically saying that I'd do a Karo Tek run directly in the sprayer... Make sense now???
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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VALIS
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847036 - 02/28/05 02:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I got pretty shot down on the idea just recently - a couple people saying that adding liquid culture myc to bulk substrate was gonna somehow cause it to contam. I'm still skeptical. Here's the debate, which I eventualy gave up on - I think that only actual evidence to the contrary is going to hold any merit with anyone at this point.
Though I was just simply talking about making several innoculations via syringe ( which would be added to a mix of fresh:precolonized substrate - raising even further controversy... ). The spray bottle thing raised my eyebrow though - good thinking; that is if you can actualy get myc to develop in a spray bottle successfully.
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Nature is the Technology of the Divine.
Edited by VALIS (02/28/05 02:05 PM)
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3847095 - 02/28/05 02:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea now that you pointed to it, I remember that thread now. However, the theory there was introducing liquid culture into already spawned/colonized bulk sub. I don't think that contams would be more of an issue the way I'm talking about doing it, than with the standard spawning methods... Guess I'll just have to try it out, since no one seems to know 100%.... I'm thinking maybe trying this out with some PR when I get some prints off my current casing, since they are really quick colonizers.... Anyway, if anyone's got more input, I'm all ears
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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penlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847108 - 02/28/05 02:18 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't see why it wouldnt work, the only problem I could see is the karo becoming exposed to air, the myc would not cause any more contams but the karo might be the perfect enviroment for contams to thrive
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Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
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penlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3847166 - 02/28/05 02:33 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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i would like to hear agar's opinion on this, as he is the superhero of bulk (bulkman)
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Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0
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brewwhaha1
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3847175 - 02/28/05 02:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can let you know in a couple of days how this might work. My foaf made a couple of logs recently as anything4poppies did. There was enogh spawn grain for the first log but no grain for the remaining log. MY foaf dedided to inoculate the 2nd log with karo water and injected it into the log with a syringe. should have results in a couple of days.
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fallingaway24
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
#3847214 - 02/28/05 02:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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i don't realy see how you are skipping the spawn part, you are using mycelium on your bulk sub, its just liquified.
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
#3847222 - 02/28/05 02:51 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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brewwhaha1, innoculating spawnbags is not anything new really... thats what the karo tek is for, but I'm referring to directly innoc'ing the bulk substrate, and already having it in its fruiting medium i.e. innoculating a casing...
penlight, i too think that the karo water itself may be inviting contams, however i'm thinking like 1/4 sub, spray, 1/4 sub, spray, 1/4 sub, spray, final 1/4 sub, no spray... i don't think this would be any more inviting than the water already in a bulk sub and spawning it with grain... i too am interested to see what input agar has when he decides to show up 
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: fallingaway24]
#3847234 - 02/28/05 02:53 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fallingaway24 said:
i don't realy see how you are skipping the spawn part, you are using mycelium on your bulk sub, its just liquified.
Ok, technically yes you'd be spawning the liquid mycellium to the bulk sub, but when I say "skip the spawn" I'm referring to not having to innoc the grain with the liquid culture, and just going directly to the bulk sub, thus bypassing the grain colonization time...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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brewwhaha1
Stranger thanmost
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847316 - 02/28/05 03:15 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sorry if i didn't exp;lain myself properly. in one mesh sock i stuffed a bunch of pasturized straw. tied both ends closed. At this point i got out some karo water with mycelium growing in it. got out a clean syringe and sucked the karu up. injected it thru the mesh and into the straw. did this at multiple points around the straw log. stuck it in my incubator / fruiting chamber. should see some growth in about 4 days. my other mesh log with straw was spawned with rye grain. I'll see wich one colonizes faster.
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VALIS
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847417 - 02/28/05 03:30 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NeedMoreSleep said:but when I say "skip the spawn" I'm referring to not having to innoc the grain with the liquid culture, and just going directly to the bulk sub, thus bypassing the grain colonization time...
... and the grain preparation time, the grain sterilization time, the grain materials expense, the grain transfer-to-bulk effort...
Replacing all that with a simple liquid culture-to-bulk effort... which is hardly any effort whatsoever, as you'd only need to go through the preparation/sterilization/incubation process once, say, using the karo tek, afterwhich you'd have more than enough for many, many, many innoculations thereafter - unlike spawn, which you have to constantly repeat the process w/ each new cultivation.
More people should be using the karo tek anyhow... it should be the very first thing done even by newbies - before pf, even.
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
#3847421 - 02/28/05 03:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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These are straw-only logs? If so, I'd be willing to bet the log spawned with rye will do better. Rye provides alot of nutes when spawning to straight straw. I doubt there's going to be enough nutes avail with just straw and liquid culture... Very interesting none the less, you should start a grow log if you're up for it...
Back on topic, I'm referring to knockin up poo or poo/straw, thus the poo would provide the nutes needed....
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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penlight438094
1 spliff 16.1g +1 man alone =Blitzed!
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847438 - 02/28/05 03:34 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NeedMoreSleep said:
These are straw-only logs? If so, I'd be willing to bet the log spawned with rye will do better. Rye provides alot of nutes when spawning to straight straw. I doubt there's going to be enough nutes avail with just straw and liquid culture... Very interesting none the less, you should start a grow log if you're up for it...
Back on topic, I'm referring to knockin up poo or poo/straw, thus the poo would provide the nutes needed....
ditto, colonized straw - grain = crappy shrooms
straw + grain = boom shrooms
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Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3847497 - 02/28/05 03:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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slightly off topic... ok WAY off topic, but its my thread and i can do that if I wanna .... Penlight, I see you took the poker trophy from Hyphae lol...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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penlight438094
1 spliff 16.1g +1 man alone =Blitzed!
Registered: 10/01/04
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847597 - 02/28/05 04:04 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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ya man, that double up was luckey as hell, got it like 20 times
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Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3847654 - 02/28/05 04:12 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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lol, i had him beat the same way, but promptly lost it all lol...
Anyway, back on topic, anyone got anymore input on this???
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847711 - 02/28/05 04:20 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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What's the Karo Tek?
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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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VALIS
vast activelivingintelligencesystem
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Viaggio]
#3847778 - 02/28/05 04:31 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
What's the Karo Tek?
It's:
#1, a way of vastly increasing the amount of inoculate from a single syringe. ( 1 cc off a syringe, can create enough inoculate to make 10's or 100's of syringes. )
#2, a way of getting better and faster colonization results by pre-germinating spores in an ideal environment before innoculating to spawn or pf. ( so you get a head-start on colonization using healthy, living mycelium, rather than ungerminated spores )
I'm sure someone'll give you a shroomery link, so here's a couple from the nook.
I'm really suprised this still hasn't become a super standard, first-step technique suggested to all newcomers.
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Nature is the Technology of the Divine.
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3847853 - 02/28/05 04:46 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool...thanks 
Now this makes sense to me. Spraying sounds cool (even though it might raise contam risk), but would the liquid be too viscous for a sprayer?
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Viaggio]
#3847863 - 02/28/05 04:48 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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for a hand spayer, maybe... but i'm fairly positive the yard sprayer i've got will work great...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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Viaggio
ChemicalConsumer
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847886 - 02/28/05 04:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why will it work great? Is it normally used to dispense a syrupy liquid? I think you've got an experiment 
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"...yet another in a long series of diversions an attempt to avoid responsibility."
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VALIS
vast activelivingintelligencesystem
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3847894 - 02/28/05 04:54 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Anyway, back on topic, anyone got anymore input on this?
Some various whatnots and whathaveyou's:
I wonder whether a finer mist or a more grainy spray would be better?
You wouldn't want mycelium clogging up the nozzle or the intake stem ( rod, straw... whatever that thing is called ); obviously.
There's _a ton_ of various little areas all over a spray bottle that would allow air and sugar and water to lurk around, ripe for contamination... this may be extremely problematic. Perhaps a transfer ( in a glovebox ) from a more standard liquid culture jar to a sterilized spray bottle would be a better idea.
You'd want to spray very close to the substrate and be exceedingly careful to not let a cloudy mist of nutrient water blow all over the sides of your chamber walls where it'll just be begging for contamination. ... imagine tiny condensced little droplets of nutrient water hanging around in your gc...
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Nature is the Technology of the Divine.
Edited by VALIS (02/28/05 04:56 PM)
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Viaggio]
#3847908 - 02/28/05 04:58 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes it is made to distribute fairly thick liquid. I've sprayed my yard with some stuff that was much thicker than I would think the liquid culture would be. I think I might just head over to the polo club down the road and grab some horse shit from them.. either that or try tennstud's pre-pasteurized dung/straw... Whatever I use, I'll wanna start with something I know has alot of nutes in it, then go from there...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3848244 - 02/28/05 05:50 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
VALIS said:
Quote:
Anyway, back on topic, anyone got anymore input on this?
Some various whatnots and whathaveyou's:
I wonder whether a finer mist or a more grainy spray would be better?
You wouldn't want mycelium clogging up the nozzle or the intake stem ( rod, straw... whatever that thing is called ); obviously.
There's _a ton_ of various little areas all over a spray bottle that would allow air and sugar and water to lurk around, ripe for contamination... this may be extremely problematic. Perhaps a transfer ( in a glovebox ) from a more standard liquid culture jar to a sterilized spray bottle would be a better idea.
You'd want to spray very close to the substrate and be exceedingly careful to not let a cloudy mist of nutrient water blow all over the sides of your chamber walls where it'll just be begging for contamination. ... imagine tiny condensced little droplets of nutrient water hanging around in your gc...
I've thought about this as well. After I started this thread, I chunked my sprayer in the PC, sprayer, pump, all of it, to see if it'd hold up. No problemo. I checked to make sure everything was air tight when put back together and it should be fine. I'm thinking I'll spray, then somehow seal the nozzle as to not allow contams to enter. Maybe a simple baggy/tape scenario would work, but I'm too much of a perfecionist to let that go on for long if it works out.... The only thing I'm really worried about is pumping it up to pressurize it. Its the type of yard sprayer that has a pump on the top and a wand to spray with. I'm thinking I could easily pump it up in a glovebox, but if it works well enough to be used, I'll figure something out to make it much less of a hassle and hopefully a useful tek one day... I'm still curious on the thoughts of the experts around here though... Agar? Magash? Anno? Hyphae? Should I do these experiments, or is this something I'll be wasting my time with? Any thoughts or suggestions ya'll can think of????
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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Anno
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3848295 - 02/28/05 05:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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>I'm still curious on the thoughts of the experts around here though... Agar? Magash?
>Anno? Hyphae?
I wouldn't exactly call me an expert for bulk substrates, but my small scale trials of inoculating straw and dung with liquid mycelium were rather disappointing, basically what RodgerRabbit said.
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NeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Anno]
#3848330 - 02/28/05 06:06 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anno, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on your small scale trials? How was the liquid mycelium introdued to the dung/straw? Under what conditions was everthing performed? What type of colonization did you experience? What specifically did you find "disappointing" with your results??? Sorry, if I'm buggin let me know, I'm just very interested in trying this out, and I think info on previous runs, even small scale, could prove to be useful in my trials.... Thanx
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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Anno
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3848353 - 02/28/05 06:11 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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>Anno, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on your small scale trials?
Sterilized substrate (straw and cow dung, separate) in jars.
>How was the liquid mycelium introdued to the dung/straw?
Syringe. Mycelium prepared via http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/7943
> Under what conditions was everthing performed?
Sterile.
>What type of colonization did you experience?
Slow, thin.
>What specifically did you find "disappointing" with your results???
Very slow and non-aggressive colonization.
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agar
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3848580 - 02/28/05 06:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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 ........blush. Hell, for all you know. I may be a 14 year old idiot savaint, in a mental institution - that is allowed to play with computers.
I have tried liquid culture (LC) as spawn into large bulk substrate trays. It doesn?t work very well, unless you have a hepa or ulpa grade flow hood, in a clean room.
The reasons impart being. LC is a contamination magnet. Simply because it is liquid, contains good nutrients, sugars & is the proper temperature for any spore to germinate in.
One lousy contaminate touches it & you are done. Maybe not soon. But, sooner than later. Because in a bulk substrate tray, when you inoculate with LC. One lousy contaminate spore hits the wet mix, it gets buried, germinates & you don?t see it, before you add a casing cover.
Also, LC is stringy, if you don?t run it through a blender (stainless steel lab type). Which most folks don?t have - because they are spendy. Because unblended LC is stringy, most of the myc ends up in the top half & little - if any gets to the bottom half of the substrate. Imagine LC like a lot of little strings.
Mix strings with water, pour the mix on a porous substrate & all the string stays on top. Sure, you can stir it in. But, you cannot tell - where it is. Because you cannot see it, like you can a colonized grain, or WBS spawn. If you don?t get a good mix, eventually the surface can appear fully colonized, and the bottom half - not, and you don?t know that.
It is also easy to throw the moisture content way out of whack. Simply because you are adding a considerable amount of fluid, to the substrate. Besides contaminates, the biggest screw/up potential with a bulk substrate is in it?s moisture content. To dry, it doesn?t colonize well. To wet, the bottom starts to rot with bacteria contamination. Always remember, myc doesn?t like wet substrate feet. It rots.
I have knocked up large bulk substrates in filter patch bags with LC. That works better. But, still?. I don?t like to fruit in bags. As trays give you far bigger & better end total crop results, IMHO. So, you can do it, in filter patch bags & get away with it. I did a few times.
I use LC to knock up large filter patch spawn bags of grain / WBS. That works, simply because there is minimal expose to contaminates, via syringe injection into the bag & you can judge the moisture content - well, because it is visible. I then use that, once fully colonized, as spawn into bulk substrate trays.
Maybe I?m old school? But, figure it this way. If spawning LC into bulk worked well. Commercial cultivators of edibles would be doing it. LC is much cheaper to produce, than grain spawn they currently use. Commercial growers don?t use LC spawn. That tells me something.
It should tell you the same thing.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: agar]
#3848915 - 02/28/05 07:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Think we all learned something here.Thanks All 
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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penlight438094
1 spliff 16.1g +1 man alone =Blitzed!
Registered: 10/01/04
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: KaptKid]
#3848982 - 02/28/05 08:24 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3849358 - 02/28/05 09:52 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Anno: Thank you very much, I'll definately take into consideration you're findings when I try this out...
Agar: ^^^Ditto... However, there are some things that you mention that I don't feel would be as relevant. Such as, you refer to the bulk sub not colonizing because the mycellium stays on top of the substrate (according to you water/string analogy), but as I described it, I would be doing this is layers, therefore, there would be several layers of "string" within the bulk sub... Kinka like a shit/mycellium lasagna sorry, just got done eatin dinner lol... as for your example with commercial growers, I can understand your thinking, but I'm way too imaginative... Where would the world be if no one ever expirimented??? I've gotta at least try now I'll be working on pencil-and-papering my initial method over the next few days, then I'll get started probably in a couple weeks... Hopefully I'll be able to at least learn something new if I don't succeed... Wish me luck!!
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: agar]
#3849381 - 02/28/05 09:57 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, I actually do have access to a lab grade blender, and I'll see if there's some way that I can use this to make a very fine liquid culture, but if not, then I'll still be spraying it down in a pretty fine form... Not a mist but I won't be hosing it down... I'm sure the first few runs I'll definately have issues working out the moisture content, but I'm fairly sure that if I can find a way to get a decently constant amount of liquid culture down, I'll be able to work out the moisture of the bulk sub to incorporate this when its sprayed... hmmmm, i love expirimentation
--------------------
"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3849393 - 02/28/05 10:01 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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>What specifically did you find "disappointing" with your results???
Very slow and non-aggressive colonization.
could this be associated with:
>Anno, if you wouldn't mind, could you elaborate on your small scale trials?
Sterilized substrate (straw and cow dung, separate) in jars.
I've always heard that you should pasteurize bulk subs instead of sterilize them... Does anyone know if sterilization could effect the nutrient base of a bulk sub???
--------------------
"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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VALIS
vast activelivingintelligencesystem
Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 225
Loc: neverwhere, az
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3849627 - 02/28/05 10:36 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NeedMoreSleep said:I'm sure the first few runs I'll definately have issues working out the moisture content, but I'm fairly sure that if I can find a way to get a decently constant amount of liquid culture down, I'll be able to work out the moisture of the bulk sub to incorporate this when its sprayed... hmmmm, i love expirimentation
Right on, man. I'm sharing your enthusiasm on this one, despite the naysayers. Keep us updated on your results.
In the mean time, I know someone who's considering a little experimentation of his own this weekend. May even be incorporating the spray technique, thanks to this thread.
Godspeed!
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Nature is the Technology of the Divine.
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penlight438094
1 spliff 16.1g +1 man alone =Blitzed!
Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 933
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3849660 - 02/28/05 10:47 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NeedMoreSleep said:
I've always heard that you should pasteurize bulk subs instead of sterilize them... Does anyone know if sterilization could effect the nutrient base of a bulk sub???
pasturizing leaves key friendly bacteria alive to fight contams, sterilization kills everything leaving the bulk open to contams. these bacteria are required as normal sterile procedures don't apply in the same ways to bulk
--------------------
Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3849737 - 02/28/05 11:16 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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VALIS, thanx for the support! Makes it all worth while... Anno, Agar, and everyone else, thanx as well. Without constructive criticism where would anyone get when experimenting? Everyone's input will be thought through carefully when I'm working on this... Man, thats why I love the Shroomery! Any other site I'd probably just get flamed and a bunch of "nope, can't be done" statements. Everyone here is a perfect example of the word "classy"... I'll keep everyone updated, but currently the monetary situation keeps my theories at bay... I should have this up and going in the next few weeks though, and believe me when I say I'll be asking for more of the "naysayers" input
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
#3849748 - 02/28/05 11:19 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
penlight438094 said:
Quote:
NeedMoreSleep said:
I've always heard that you should pasteurize bulk subs instead of sterilize them... Does anyone know if sterilization could effect the nutrient base of a bulk sub???
pasturizing leaves key friendly bacteria alive to fight contams, sterilization kills everything leaving the bulk open to contams. these bacteria are required as normal sterile procedures don't apply in the same ways to bulk
hmmmm, could this be a possible reason (probably one of many) that Anno's initial tests weren't as successful as he hoped? Looks like I'll be setting up several test batches with sterilized bulk substrate, and an equal amount with pasteurized bulk sub.... Sorry guys just thinking out loud here, but any info on my thoughts is still welcome
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3849856 - 02/28/05 11:39 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Consider, one cubic foot of unfiltered fairly clean air contains about 300,000 microscopic particulates. Some of which are contaminate spores.
SPAYING a liquid through any open air, will cause any contaminates present in the spray path to attach to that mist, then fall into whatever the mist is directed towards.
Secondly, I have had a thick LC slurry plug an 18 gauge needle. Which is a lot larger than any spray mist nozzle orfice, unless you intend use a big bore - pump up - squirt gun - rifle.
Hey, I have tried every myco shortcut I can think of after bong hit 3.
Some worked, others worked about as well as attempting male / female vaginal intercourse without touching, or a penis/vagina involved. In other words, not satisfactory  .
In the myco-game  , you either get it right, or it goes wrong. No half ways about it.
Do a grow log. We wanna watch........ 
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VALIS
vast activelivingintelligencesystem
Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 225
Loc: neverwhere, az
Last seen: 11 years, 11 months
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: agar]
#3849937 - 02/28/05 11:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
Consider, one cubic foot of unfiltered fairly clean air contains about 300,000 microscopic particulates. Some of which are contaminate spores.
SPAYING a liquid through any open air, will cause any contaminates present in the spray path to attach to that mist, then fall into whatever the mist is directed towards.
Carefully spray very, very close to the casing. With liquid culture that contained a measured amount of h202, for a little extra saftey. Doing this in a cheap, home-made glovebox would be even better, especialy one with even some half-assed attempt at filtered positive pressure.
Additionaly, I think it's imperative that one would do this using "small bulk" casings - not large ones like what Anno was doing. Putting a bottom layer casing may help in mopping up whatever extra moisture buildup may occur like what Anno described.
Quote:
Secondly, I have had a thick LC slurry plug an 18 gauge needle.
Did this happen even despite vigorous shaking with glass/marble(s) in the jar?
Quote:
Hey, I have tried every myco shortcut I can think of after bong hit 3.
The true spirit of invention! (c8=
Quote:
others worked about as well as attempting male / female vaginal intercourse without touching, or a penis/vagina involved. In other words, not satisfactory
Well... there's experimentation, and then there's "barking up the wrong tree" entirely... <grin>
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Nature is the Technology of the Divine.
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
Registered: 01/25/05
Posts: 1,210
Loc: One Inch ↑
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3849963 - 03/01/05 12:04 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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man, you guys never cease to amaze me... i should have a preliminary theoretical tek drawn up in a few days. I'll post that and we'll go from there, I think this is definately one of those "two heads are better than one" situations... Keep em' comin guys! As for me, I've been awake for 29 hrs straight now, so I'm off to bed
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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liveby
Wasted For Time
Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 1,511
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
#3849967 - 03/01/05 12:05 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
VALIS said:
Quote:
agar said:
Quote:
others worked about as well as attempting male / female vaginal intercourse without touching, or a penis/vagina involved. In other words, not satisfactory
Well... there's experimentation, and then there's "barking up the wrong tree" entirely... <grin>
mate thats the way to go ! try have a go and have a good time
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http://www.bruceeisner.com/ -Creating a Sensible Culture
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
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Loc: 
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: liveby]
#3851087 - 03/01/05 08:35 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Contam farm. I'm not gonna debate it. I've been through this debate well over a dozen times (a search for liquid mycelium and bulk will probably give you some info, this question is asked every now and then).
I will say over skimming through this a few things.
For one, nutes are not lost through sterilizing. For two, spraying LC in open air=contams. Forget the rest of the problems..thisll be the biggest. Even taking utmost percautions. Then theres water content. And then there poo/compost. I dont think that anything other then straight straw would work well for this. Well thats about all I'll say other then this is straw STERILIZED, then inoculated with a liquid culture. They were removed from the jar, cased together and gave me a shitty first flush and a great 2nd and 3rd flush. I did this only to prove that you could inoculate bulk substrate with liquid and that you can used sterilized bulk. However, I do not think my experiment was worth the time or the pain it took to make it a tek to use. I also dont think it could have been done any other way (pasteurized, myc sprayed through open air ect).
Just dont get to gungho about your idea just because. People often come up with things they think are really exciting and get so excited that they block out common sense and just see the good things, not the bad things. There are many problems with this that would make it difficult to do. If you COULD get it to work, it would probably require more work and sterility then normal methods.
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
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Posts: 1,210
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3851466 - 03/01/05 10:44 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
scatmanrav said:
Just dont get to gungho about your idea just because. People often come up with things they think are really exciting and get so excited that they block out common sense and just see the good things, not the bad things.
This is specifically the reason that I welcome the naysayers. I'm not doing this just because I think that it could work. I know that there's a high probability that it won't work out. However, this doesn't mean that conclusions cannot be drawn that could be beneficial. Definately appreciate the input Scat
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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scatmanrav
Brainy Smurf
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#3851515 - 03/01/05 10:54 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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As long as you realize that..
And make sure your carful about where you keep this thing, there is a good chance of contams and you dont want to risk other projects or ops over experiments. You may not have anything to endanger, just in case though.
Oh yeah...I have heard of another alteration to this idea, dont know if it worked..but someone was going to do this outdoors, then transfer it in once fully colonized (or leave it out if you want). Outdoors, theres a natural defense against contams. That doesnt mean itll work but it might be worth trying one outside as well if you have the means and go about this.
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NeedMoreSleep
OCD = 100%Sterility :-)
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: scatmanrav]
#3851582 - 03/01/05 11:08 AM (19 years, 1 month ago) |
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Scat, are you psychic???? I was thinking about doing just that when I pulled this thread back up lol I'm not quite sure how much dung I'll be getting, but there'll be several different scenarios run (sterilized/pasteurized sub, straight shit/shit-straw combo) in the later stages of my experimentation, and I'm hoping I'll have the resources available to do half inside/half outside...
BTW everyone, this thread is not even close to concluded, so any spontaneous thoughts you have should be thrown in, no matter how trivial or stupid you may think it is... No matter how much preparation and forethought someone does, you never catch everything, and it's usually the small things that people overlook, so don't be shy! THIS APPLIES TO NOOBS TOO!!!!! Often fresh ideas/thoughts from amateurs can prove to be very useful! No offense to the "pros" around here, but some things are often taken for granted when you've been doing something for a long time...
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"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints
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weskes
Stranger
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
#10342587 - 05/15/09 08:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Finally a noob can make suggestions, as a noob I would suggest trying this in a glove box. But I would spray the box with a disinfectant to kill contams, every time before spraying with LC. The substrate should be protected from this disinfectant of course.
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What goes up, must come down!
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