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InvisibleNeedMoreSleep
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Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea....
    #3846742 - 02/28/05 02:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

OK, so when I'm blitzed (like I am now :stoned: ) I get some weird ideas sometimes.  I've done some searching on here to no avail, so here's my idea, ya'll tell me if its possible.  I've read that germination of spores in a bulk substrate doesn't go to well, that's why typically you would use something fully colonized, usually any grain, to spawn the bulk sub.  I was thinking about making a liquid mycellium culture directly in a sprayer.  Like a weed sprayer, or a fertilizer sprayer if you know what I'm talking about.  Put some broken glass, or marbles, or something in there to break up the mycellium.  When the liquid mycellium culture is nice and thick, lay down like 1/4 of the bulk sub, give a light spray over it, lay another 1/4 of bulk sub, give another light spray, and so on till you get all the bulk sub that you're gonna use.  I'm thinking that if you already knew how you're going to do this, then with a couple experimental runs you could get the moisture contect of the bulk sub just right for this. And with an even and layered spray of liquid mycellium, the spores are already germinated and the mycellium should take off at a fairly fast and even manner.  IF this works out to be something that is fairly reliable it would save lots of time by cutting out the grain.  Obviously grain provides nutes and such, so a bulk sub like dung would have to be used that has nutes in it...  Anyway, like I said, I'm toasted right now, so thoughts/comments/I-told-ya-so's/flames/whatever are welcome, no offense taken :stoned:


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
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Invisiblekorins
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3846838 - 02/28/05 03:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This may work, but I still see grain as a better way to go.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: korins]
    #3846849 - 02/28/05 03:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Liquid doesn't inoculate bulk substrates very well. That is why grain is standard.


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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #3846869 - 02/28/05 03:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

korins: could you elaborate on why you think grain would be a better way to go???

RogerRabbit: I'm seriously not trying to start anything here, but do you have any conclusive evidence that liquid mycellium doesn't inoculate bulk subs very well??? Link maybe??? I'm seriously interested in the findings if someone has tried this before...


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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OfflineViaggio
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847017 - 02/28/05 03:59 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe I'm not following, but are you talking about liquefying mycelium? If so, I think it's cool idea, but I doubt it will work. Mycelium is kind of like a collection of roots that feed the fungi cells. If there's no feeding mechanism, I don't think the cells can survive for long.


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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: Viaggio]
    #3847029 - 02/28/05 04:02 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, let me clarify... I'm basically saying that I'd do a Karo Tek run directly in the sprayer... Make sense now???


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847036 - 02/28/05 04:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I got pretty shot down on the idea just recently - a couple people saying that adding liquid culture myc to bulk substrate was gonna somehow cause it to contam. I'm still skeptical. Here's the debate, which I eventualy gave up on - I think that only actual evidence to the contrary is going to hold any merit with anyone at this point.

Though I was just simply talking about making several innoculations via syringe ( which would be added to a mix of fresh:precolonized substrate - raising even further controversy... ). The spray bottle thing raised my eyebrow though - good thinking; that is if you can actualy get myc to develop in a spray bottle successfully.


--------------------
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Edited by VALIS (02/28/05 04:05 PM)


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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: VALIS]
    #3847095 - 02/28/05 04:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yea now that you pointed to it, I remember that thread now.  However, the theory there was introducing liquid culture into already spawned/colonized bulk sub.  I don't think that contams would be more of an issue the way I'm talking about doing it, than with the standard spawning methods...  Guess I'll just have to try it out, since no one seems to know 100%....  I'm thinking maybe trying this out with some PR when I get some prints off my current casing, since they are really quick colonizers....  Anyway, if anyone's got more input, I'm all ears :stoned:


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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Offlinepenlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847108 - 02/28/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I don't see why it wouldnt work, the only problem I could see is the karo becoming exposed to air, the myc would not cause any more contams but the karo might be the perfect enviroment for contams to thrive


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Offlinepenlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
    #3847166 - 02/28/05 04:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i would like to hear agar's opinion on this, as he is the superhero of bulk (bulkman)


--------------------
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Offlinebrewwhaha1
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
    #3847175 - 02/28/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I can let you know in a couple of days how this might work. My foaf made a couple of logs recently as anything4poppies did. There was enogh spawn grain for the first log but no grain for the remaining log. MY foaf dedided to inoculate the 2nd log with karo water and injected it into the log with a syringe. should have results in a couple of days.


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Offlinefallingaway24
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
    #3847214 - 02/28/05 04:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i don't realy see how you are skipping the spawn part, you are using mycelium on your bulk sub, its just liquified.


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InvisibleNeedMoreSleep
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
    #3847222 - 02/28/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

brewwhaha1, innoculating spawnbags is not anything new really... thats what the karo tek is for, but I'm referring to directly innoc'ing the bulk substrate, and already having it in its fruiting medium i.e. innoculating a casing...

penlight, i too think that the karo water itself may be inviting contams, however i'm thinking like 1/4 sub, spray, 1/4 sub, spray, 1/4 sub, spray, final 1/4 sub, no spray... i don't think this would be any more inviting than the water already in a bulk sub and spawning it with grain... i too am interested to see what input agar has when he decides to show up :grin:


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: fallingaway24]
    #3847234 - 02/28/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fallingaway24 said:
i don't realy see how you are skipping the spawn part, you are using mycelium on your bulk sub, its just liquified.




Ok, technically yes you'd be spawning the liquid mycellium to the bulk sub, but when I say "skip the spawn" I'm referring to not having to innoc the grain with the liquid culture, and just going directly to the bulk sub, thus bypassing the grain colonization time...


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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Offlinebrewwhaha1
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847316 - 02/28/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry if i didn't exp;lain myself properly. in one mesh sock i stuffed a bunch of pasturized straw. tied both ends closed. At this point i got out some karo water with mycelium growing in it. got out a clean syringe and sucked the karu up. injected it thru the mesh and into the straw. did this at multiple points around the straw log. stuck it in my incubator / fruiting chamber. should see some growth in about 4 days. my other mesh log with straw was spawned with rye grain. I'll see wich one colonizes faster.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847417 - 02/28/05 05:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NeedMoreSleep said:but when I say "skip the spawn" I'm referring to not having to innoc the grain with the liquid culture, and just going directly to the bulk sub, thus bypassing the grain colonization time...




... and the grain preparation time, the grain sterilization time, the grain materials expense, the grain transfer-to-bulk effort...

Replacing all that with a simple liquid culture-to-bulk effort... which is hardly any effort whatsoever, as you'd only need to go through the preparation/sterilization/incubation process once, say, using the karo tek, afterwhich you'd have more than enough for many, many, many innoculations thereafter - unlike spawn, which you have to constantly repeat the process w/ each new cultivation.

More people should be using the karo tek anyhow... it should be the very first thing done even by newbies - before pf, even.


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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: brewwhaha1]
    #3847421 - 02/28/05 05:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

These are straw-only logs? If so, I'd be willing to bet the log spawned with rye will do better. Rye provides alot of nutes when spawning to straight straw. I doubt there's going to be enough nutes avail with just straw and liquid culture... Very interesting none the less, you should start a grow log if you're up for it...

Back on topic, I'm referring to knockin up poo or poo/straw, thus the poo would provide the nutes needed....


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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Offlinepenlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847438 - 02/28/05 05:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

NeedMoreSleep said:
These are straw-only logs? If so, I'd be willing to bet the log spawned with rye will do better. Rye provides alot of nutes when spawning to straight straw. I doubt there's going to be enough nutes avail with just straw and liquid culture... Very interesting none the less, you should start a grow log if you're up for it...

Back on topic, I'm referring to knockin up poo or poo/straw, thus the poo would provide the nutes needed....




ditto, colonized straw - grain = crappy shrooms

straw + grain = boom shrooms


--------------------
Grown on Uncle Ben's 5 Minute Rice
Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0



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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: penlight438094]
    #3847497 - 02/28/05 05:46 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

slightly off topic... ok WAY off topic, but its my thread and i can do that if I wanna :grin: ....  Penlight, I see you took the poker trophy from Hyphae lol...


--------------------

"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil,
which we must fear most. And that is... the indifference of good men."
-Boondock Saints


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Offlinepenlight438094
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Re: Going bulk... skip spawn possible? Here's my idea.... [Re: NeedMoreSleep]
    #3847597 - 02/28/05 06:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

ya man, that double up was luckey as hell, got it like 20 times


--------------------
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Looks nice, Think again, read and see http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3576624/an/0/page/0



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