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OfflineDead Shaman
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 172
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Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
The collapse of the Capatalist Empire
    #383960 - 09/02/01 02:47 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Governments rise and fall, what makes any of us think that ours is going to be any different? Belive it or not our own government (by which I mean the U.S.) is radically different then the one proposed by our forefathers some 200 plus years ago.

I propose a new form of government in which the money one makes is directly determined by how one benefits the wellfare of mankind. A Beneficilistic form of government, if you will. In other words you get what you give. This would drive and motivate people to care for and love human kind as well as all life, and would halt the unnecessary consumerism which is slowly but surely killing our planet. None of us have all the answers, but with the right attitude we can begin to embark on a long journey that would seek to immortalize the spirit and values of human kind forever.

"And then you will realize the truth; there is no spoom."


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Offlinemadscientist
journeyman
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 110
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Re: The collapse of the Capatalist Empire [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #385297 - 09/04/01 07:42 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Problem is how do you measure this worth? Surely a doctor should be highest paid? but what about the mechanic who fixes ambulances? shouldnt he be paid as much as a doctor?
Or perhaps farmers should be paid the most, they provide the food. But then again, shouldnt the people who provide the seed to these farmers. What about scientists who alleviate the pain and suffering of humankind? what about builers who put roofs over our heads? shouldnt we all therefore be paid the same??

Sure, comrade Stalin, sure..............

Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Registered: 06/30/01
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Re: The collapse of the Capatalist Empire [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #385304 - 09/04/01 07:57 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

I propose a new form of government in which the money one makes is directly determined by how one benefits the wellfare of mankind.




That sounds like the profit motive to me. A basic tenet of capatalism I might add.
--------------

What you propose would require a command economy, presumably with the central goverment acting as a redistributer of wealth. That is a very broad statement and seems to me to lean towards fascism, or an offshoot of fascism. Certainly requiring a command economy with the central goverment directing the actions of industry... Perhaps it could be worked in to a strict sort of socialism... It's difficult to reason the specifics of your proposal given such generalities.



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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinemadscientist
journeyman
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 110
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
Re: The collapse of the Capatalist Empire [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #385308 - 09/04/01 08:36 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Indeed, perhaps a sort of socialism that would affirm our sovriegnity, thereby combating globilisation! perhaps we should call it National Socialism!
We could also get some mystic hindu rune as a symbol of our identity!!

Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


--------------------
Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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OfflinePhyl
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Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 597
Loc: United Kingdom
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: The collapse of the Capatalist Empire [Re: Dead Shaman]
    #385315 - 09/04/01 09:30 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Nice idea, but it would never work. You cannot buy compassion.



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OfflineDead Shaman
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 172
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Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
Re: The collapse of the Capatalist Empire [Re: Phyl]
    #385505 - 09/04/01 03:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Passion comes from within. Not from government, money, or anywhere else. I think that in today's society there is a grosse lack of concern for our children's future. We have become a nation of consumers, and continuing upon this path of destrcution means that we will eventually consume only ourselves. I think that when we look at ones "value" (I do not believe "worth" is the correct word, because the only person who can determine that is the individual themself) we have to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. What, if any, advancements are going to make any difference on the future. So many of the jobs and careers people are stuck in don't and never will have any bearing on the future. The future is what matters, more specifically, our future is what matters. So many of us can sit around and be content in our little lives without a care in the world besides whats for dinner and making sure the jet-ski is gassed up for the weekend. After all, ignorence is bliss. But what is it one can do to benefit mankind indefinatly? This and others like them are the questions we must all ask ourselves? Can we indivually make a difference? And most importantly what was it all for if you don't leave something to be remembered by, some lasting impression of the triumph of the human spirit. Billions of people are born and die, billions more untold.

Now Imagine a world, a world were the classical ideologies reign supreme, a world with no restrictions, no bounderies, no limitations. A world where one can truly be free. A world where children are brought up to love life, and are instilled with the urge to create and help mankind. A world were there is no war. There is nothing to disagree over, we all have the same goals (which we realisticly DO, even though most people don't realize it). A world of love, where there is no greed or disrespect. Fear of death and of change would give way, concentrating all of our limited time into a gigantic ball of growth and advancement, that would forever reach out towards the stars crying in triumph, giving rise to hope and comfort for generations to come.

The very essence of life, everything that we have come to be, has come from order. Strangely enough for life to have had reached the high level of organization seen in humans, evolution has had to incorporate the concept of chaos back into our brains. New thought, dreams, creativity, all stem from this incorporation of chaos into our being. This is actually one of the greatest faucets of the human mind. Unfortunatly this day in age we are asking things from the mind that it was never designed to do. Keep in mind we could easily say the hell with government, and that would benefit the individual quite nicely, but it is the furtherment and advancement of the human species as a whole which relies so heavily on some form of externalized order. Also the human mind is so highly developed that it can at times actually become a burden. Government serves to externalize order, and balance the choas in our minds through the use of deterences (crime and punishment). Let us not forget that through the twisted paths evoltution has taken we have managed to loose just about all of our natural born instinct. Translation, we need someone to tell us what to do and how to do it, this is why we often see such big differences between the generations, people learn from their peers and parents, grow up to have there own experiences, and in turn depart their combined knowlege to there children.

Well all of this is well and dandy but it does not answer the question as to what type of government is best, and while the reality of the matter is that there is only one solution, philosophers and aristocrats alike have debated on the subject for thousands of years without a definitive answer.

We should of course just forget about money entirely, while it serves to agitate growth and development, it is ideally not what people should use to motivate themselves. There are ultimately higher goals, and values at stake.

On a side note I should add that humans in general seem to lack a natural symbioses with nature and the world around us, we consume and consume, until all resources are depleted, and then we move somewhere else. I feel that before we go any further it is essential that we find this balance again.

"And then you will realize the truth; there is no spoom."


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