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Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Canada says no to missile defence
    #3834092 - 02/25/05 07:39 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

This was a surprise. For a while it sounded like Ottawa was going to go along with this.

"We simply cannot understand why Canada would in effect give up its sovereignty – its seat at the table – to decide what to do about a missile that might be coming towards Canada," said Paul Cellucci.

OTTAWA - Canada has said no to the U.S. missile defence program, Prime Minister Paul Martin announced Thursday.

The prime minister said the decision was made following extensive discussions with Foreign Affairs and National Defence.


Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew in the Commons, Thursday.
"Let me be clear: we respect the right of the United States to defend itself and its people," said Martin.

Canada will continue to work with the U.S. for the common defence of North America, but our efforts won't be concentrated on missile defence, the prime minister said.

"Canada remains steadfast in its support of Norad," said Martin.

The nearly $13 billion allocated for the military in Wednesday's budget proves Canada is committed to taking its share of responsibility for national and international security, he said.

The outgoing U.S. ambassador to Canada reacted swiftly, saying the decision to defend North America now rests with Washington.

"We simply cannot understand why Canada would in effect give up its sovereignty – its seat at the table – to decide what to do about a missile that might be coming towards Canada," said Paul Cellucci.

Earlier, Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew told the House of Commons about the prime minister's decision, which Pettigrew said was based on policy, and not emotion.

Pettigrew said he informed U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of Canada's decision on Tuesday during NATO meetings in Brussels.

"Of course, the U.S. is disappointed. They recognize and respect our decision," said Pettigrew.

While NDP foreign affairs critic Alexa McDonough praised the decision, party leader Jack Layton criticized the prime minister for telling the American secretary of state before informing MPs.

When asked Wednesday during Question Period whether he was planning to reject missile defence, Martin suggested the decision hadn't been made.

"The government has stated all along that it will make the decision when it is in Canada's interest to do so," said Martin.


FROM FEB. 22, 2005: Martin will reject missile defence: report

The issue was thrust into the spotlight earlier this week when Canada's new ambassador to Washington, Frank McKenna, said Canada is effectively already taking part in the program by allowing the missile program to use Norad.

During a visit to Canada in December, U.S. President George W. Bush publicly urged Martin to join the program.

When he first took office, Martin suggested he supported joining the plan, saying he believed Canada should be at the table when it comes to any discussion of the defence of North America.

Critics of the program say it could lead to a new arms race and the weaponization of space.


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineCatalysis
EtherealEngineer

Registered: 04/23/02
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Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: carbonhoots]
    #3834148 - 02/25/05 07:53 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The weaponization of space is inevitable. If they don't do it now, they will just have to do it later so they might as well get it over with.


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Catalysis]
    #3834169 - 02/25/05 07:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The weaponization of space is inevitable.




Seems to me that the only people that are trying to weaponize space is the U.S.

And why in gods name would we want to spend a bazillion dollars on something that has not even a proven technology?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Rono]
    #3834223 - 02/25/05 08:17 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


Seems to me that the only people that are trying to weaponize space is the U.S.




Thats because the US is the only one with the money and technology right now.

I can see why Canada wouldn't want to go along, they really have no reason to.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: carbonhoots]
    #3834244 - 02/25/05 08:24 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Missile defence seems like a big waste of energy. Just what America needs right? More missiles.

Anyways here's the latest. Now Ottawa has asked Washington to ask for permission before shooting down a hostile missle in Canadian airspace.

"I don't think that anyone expected that there would be any other finger on a button than the Americans," Martin said Friday


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: carbonhoots]
    #3834268 - 02/25/05 08:33 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Its less of a waste of energy when you are protecting valuable targets. The destruction of WTC had a significant impact on our economy due to the shear loss of money it caused. A missle attack, especially by one of the many emerging nuclear powers, would be even more costly.

Some of the most valuable targets in the world are in the US and, as we have seen, it only takes the destruction of one to have a significant impact.


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OfflineProsgeopax
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Catalysis]
    #3834343 - 02/25/05 08:49 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Our greatest threats are not from incoming missiles from other nation-states, but from 4th generation warfare agents acting outside of any national interests (but AGAINST nations). The next attack on U.S. soil will not be carried on ICBMs but via (a) human centric delivery system(s) bringing weapons into the country (or building them here) and from there targeting in a relatively low tech manner designed to cause the greatest fear and confusion.

Question: Would a national missile defense have stopped either WTC attack?

The money would be better spent plugging up our porous borders as well as changing to a non-interventionist foreign policy.


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Money doesn't grow on trees, but deficits do grow under Bushes.

You can accept, reject, or examine and test any new idea that comes to you. The wise man chooses the third way.
- Tom Willhite

Disclaimer: I reserve the right to change my opinions should I become aware of additional facts, the falsification of information or different perspectives. Articles written by others which I post may not necessarily reflect my opinions in part or in whole, my opinions may be in direct opposition, the topic may be one on which I have yet to formulate an opinion or have doubts about, an article may be posted solely with the intent to stimulate discussion or contemplation.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Catalysis]
    #3834793 - 02/25/05 10:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

The whole star-wars idea has been nonsense since the beginning. Nothing ever worked, including the new system which has failed far more tests than it has passed (and the ones it did, were rigged).

I was worried that Martin would sign on to this missile deffense sink, as he said he would, but I can see how he didn't have much of a choice. Thank god for minority governments :yesnod:

Here's a good video about this "program" (it costs several billion dollars each test): Missile Wars

The destruction of WTC had a significant impact on our economy due to the shear loss of money it caused. A missle attack, especially by one of the many emerging nuclear powers, would be even more costly.

A ballistic deffense shield wouldn't have changed 9/11 at all, as passenjer jets are not ballistic. Nuclear weapons are much more likely to enter the US via boat or truck than by ballistic missile, so a space deffense shield would not serve much purpose.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Registered: 04/23/02
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: trendal]
    #3834835 - 02/25/05 10:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

A ballistic deffense shield wouldn't have changed 9/11 at all, as passenjer jets are not ballistic.




How do you get that from my statement? Did I say anything inferring that a missile defense system would stop passenger jets from being used destructively or are you just trying do move away from the real issue?

The fact is that ballistic missile technology is not the technological hurdle that it once was. Weapon proliferation will continue into future, therefore defenses must always be upgraded.

I agree that another danger is the potential for transportation of nuclear devices by boat and the attack of a port or coastal city. I don't really think a large nuclear device could be carried easily on land without detection.


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Registered: 10/21/04
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: carbonhoots]
    #3834844 - 02/25/05 11:01 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Good.


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OfflineZekebomb
sociophagus

Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 1,164
Loc: BC province
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3834878 - 02/25/05 11:15 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I'm so glad Martin said no. I really thought he'd lie down on this one, but instead he stood up. who knew?

can anyone explain the point of missile defense? "duh, obviously we need to defend ourselves from the russians/the al qaeda/osama/the arctic avengers." But who in their right mind would attack with big expensive missiles when they could just whip up a briefcase nuke and hand-deliver it?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Rono]
    #3835963 - 02/26/05 08:45 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Forcibly removing, or executing all non-caucasians (actually, probably just 80%) would make the U.S. considerably safer.

I think we can expect a holocaust on U.S. soil within the next 50 years.


Then if we also have a missle defense shield, all we have to worry about is each other.


Thank God we've got all these handguns and assault rifles.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3836142 - 02/26/05 10:48 AM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I think we can expect a holocaust on U.S. soil within the next 50 years.

I'm betting within 25...


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: trendal]
    #3836350 - 02/26/05 12:18 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

"Washington must consult Canada before firing rockets into Canadian airspace"

haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaa

and if we do not ask permission what is Canada going to do about it?

the Salvation Army could kick the Canadian Army's ass!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3836428 - 02/26/05 12:41 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

I hear the Swiss army has very advanced knife technology.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3837275 - 02/26/05 03:59 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i like the idea of a nation that doesn't feel the need to lock their doors or have excessive weapons. There's no real reason to be afraid of being attacked. I mean, what good would it do to attack Canada? They might stop the flow of beer and kind bud to neighboring countries (and by neighboring countries, i mean the U.S.) but other than that, there's nothing. Canada minds it's own business and everyone else leaves them alone.

Canada sounds like a cool place to live, it wish it wasn't so cold though!


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3837791 - 02/26/05 06:02 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

and if we do not ask permission what is Canada going to do about it?


Since Canada supplies a great deal of your energy and natural resources, I would say that there is a considerable amount as to what Canada can do about it.

Picture the western seaboard with no electricity...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Rono]
    #3838087 - 02/26/05 07:03 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Picture a Canada with the balls to do that.


I can't.


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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3838239 - 02/26/05 07:42 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

i have the greatest idea, lets fire our nukes out at the ocean and try and blow them up with the missle sheild! itll be a hell of a show, especially when our missle shield fails and we nuke the whales


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PEACE

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"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Re: Canada says no to missile defence [Re: ZippoZ]
    #3838476 - 02/26/05 08:30 PM (12 years, 3 months ago)

Canada doesn't need missile defense because the U.S will defend her if need be. Isn't that respectful of them? They need the money to further undercut our drug companies to pay for their ailing socialist nanny state. Fuck Canada.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth



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