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InvisibleSinbad
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Paranoia - Maybe
    #3832232 - 02/25/05 11:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Paranoia seems to stem from thinking that we have something. Something that can be taken away, something that can be undermined, its basically attachment to self.

When we are paranoid, its like stirring the pot of confusion with the stick of self-centerdness. We have closed our minds to the possibility that we may not exist as we think we do.

We are always concerned with "making it". Everything is seen from a competitive point of view.

We think that at our 'self' is under threat in some way. Either that or we are so caught up in fear that we dint have these considerations at all, instead we will act like an animal, purely on survival instinct with no real awareness of our own minds. When we come down from this state we may even laugh at our actions seeing how silly and pointlessly tiring they were.

What we realize when we let go is that we don't have to struggle to survive after all. We have already survived. We survive now; the struggle was just an extra complication that we added to our lives because we had lost our confidence in the way things are. We no longer need to manipulate things as they are into things as we would like them to be.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: Sinbad]
    #3832924 - 02/25/05 02:13 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

nahhh

paranoia is from psychodrama - you have to look into your past.

there will be some residual concerns (clinging to patterns that relate to sensing being under attack) or defensive routines. you could say that there is attachment or clinging in the sense that the psychodrama of the past is triggered by some association - one feels foolish even though the world has changed and no real threat exists.


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OfflinePed
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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3833005 - 02/25/05 02:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

You must admit, though, that paranoia does have it's roots in self-centredness. When something makes me angry, my mind immediately begins grasping at itself, reinforcing the idea that the self is whole and solid, and that it needs to be protected from outside circumstances. The tighter that self-grasping, the more warped reality becomes: I might begin to suspect that people have agendas against me when in fact they do not. When self-grasping gets out of control, the ideas about the self's lack of inherent existence that I've spent so much time meditating on and writing about go right out the window. The mind immediately slams shut to the notion that the self may not in fact possess it's own innate existential qualities. It's a frantic turbulence of mind, like a blizzard clouding visibility and making all roads -- all modes of action -- very slippery.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: Ped] * 1
    #3833139 - 02/25/05 02:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well you have to accept the self, centeredness is not a problem.
there are 3 roots (Hatrred & Greed & Delusion that everyone has) to pull out and the other problems are all specific things that have happenned and perhaps have not yet been dealt with.

not everyone is paranoid - and not in the same circumstances either. the various degrees of manifestation of fear are not the issue either.

paranoia can be embarrassing, but it is the just embarassment of not knowing oneself - or of forgetting to face and get over an old problem.


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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3833359 - 02/25/05 04:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Paranoia can be terrible because it's sometimes impossible to pinpoint what is making you feel that way. The last time I took LSD I became a paranoid wreck, and I don't even know how it happened. It was just all of a sudden apparent that I was a paranoid wreck, and it went downhill from there. Lacking a cause is a very confusing thing.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: freddurgan]
    #3833365 - 02/25/05 04:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is it paranoia per say? or is being cautious? Paranoia is often misrepresented of an individual being cautious, or are you talking about extreme paranoia such as thinking the whole world is against you? e.g. delusion thought processes, thinking that the bird on the telephon pole wire is talking to you and is ploting to kill you?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - you have to be gentle. [Re: freddurgan] * 1
    #3833436 - 02/25/05 04:45 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

especially when disorientated, one needs to proceed gently

on LSD or any other strong entheogen, the little boat can be tossed by high winds and sea - anything really, so you would prepare by going into a bay first, mooring safely, and do whatever is reasonable to cushion the delicate parts.

after the trip begins just be gentle in your approaches and when it is time to withdraw from anything just let go, and keep on letting go.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Paranoia - Maybe [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3833631 - 02/25/05 05:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hatred, greed and dellusion are all manifestations of a root cause which is self-centeredness. they are like the symptoms of the disease, so your incorrect in saying that self-centeredness isnt the problem, because it is the root cause of all problems.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/25/05 06:34 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: Sinbad] * 1
    #3833944 - 02/25/05 07:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

you can group the 3 immoral roots of buddhism into your own single root but it won't help in dealing with the problems that arise; it is just a logical grouping.

in the same way you could say that these are the primitive instincts, so let us fight instinct in general; but it really does not serve to oversimplify what is already elemental, in stead you begin looking for a new culprit that is a construct.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3833978 - 02/25/05 07:09 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

When these manifeststaion occur, if you observe your mind well, you can see that they arise in dependence upn self-centred grasping. So you can see im not grouping at all, im pointing to the intial cause of these manifestations wich is grasping.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835475 - 02/26/05 02:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

any "manifestations" arise because that is the nature of the associative process.
It is the underlying mechanism, the very process that can ramify from one idea to many in anyone's mind.
in meditation you learn to allow that arizing without engaging or ramifying.

"self centered grasping" is an extra new label for the vigor and vitality of the underlying process. I think you should keep a "middle way" approach to this.

Normal and healthy mind material operates with this vitality and vigor and it is a good thing. in meditation you let it pass and do not engage; and keep an eye out for just the 3 roots - otherwise you will become paranoid by imagining what is fundamental is not normal and healthy. you can ease up on that.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3835782 - 02/26/05 04:46 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

When people label self-centernedness as normal, healthy and natural, it always sounds like some mordeen psycological tripe that says the ego is a positive which isnt true. Self-centredness is the root of all dellusion, hatred and greed, which are not natural conditions at all, but manfieststaions of the three mind poisons: attachment, aversion and indifference, which are perpetuated by self-grasping.

Self-centered grasping is the underlying process of paranioa, stress and frustration which suck the vitality and vigor out of us. To say that it gives us vitality and vigor is a big misunderstanding.

In meditation we observe the functioning of our mind without judgement or labeling, and we discover the root cause of all our problems which is this self-cherishing attidude, when this functioning is observed, we have discovered the root cause and the medicine of selflessness is effortlessly and automaticly applied. Through our clear insight and knowlege of the situation as it is, we see why we suffer and from that point we can no longer remain ignorant of our condition.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/26/05 05:30 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835850 - 02/26/05 06:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

selflessness and selfishness are generalized groupings and not the atomic elements of good and evil but they do point in the right direction.
I guess when you start going on about some other obsession I - or someone like me - will stand there and try to pull it back into the center.
we suffer due to the monkey wanting something and not understanding why it does not work. it is not the monkey itself.
we are wise when we have compassion for others who are being like the monkey and are confused.
to hate the monkey is to be paranoid.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3835854 - 02/26/05 06:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Selflessnes doesnt equate to goodness in the christian sense of the word. Instead it means that we realize the illusory nature of the 'I' or 'self' which causes suffering and in that knowlege, compassion without reference point naturally springs forth for all beings without exception.

Idiot compassion is compassion based on 'self' when we still belive in the 'I' that is being compassionate. Compassion without the wisdom of knowing is like trying to fly with one wing, you fall back to the ground everytime you try, and its painful.

Ignorant compassion is not what we need. What we need is to understand the characteristic nature of our minds, through awareness and observation, then we naturally free ourselves from the prison of selfishness.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/26/05 07:36 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Paranoia - simple is good, over simple is not the middle way [Re: Sinbad]
    #3835887 - 02/26/05 07:32 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

thats, is Paranoia :P


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Edited by Gomp (02/26/05 07:32 AM)


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