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OfflineYourNameHere
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Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):)
    #3832093 - 02/25/05 08:12 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Last night myself and my partner put together a few jars as per standard PF tek, :thumbup: the only unusual part being that there is the extracted tryptamine alkaloids of Desmanthus illinoensis (or Illinois bundleflower) rootbark evaporated into/onto the vermiculite :grin: . The concentration of tryptamines is pretty high and we expect the potency of our little babies to be quite high. (one-hit-shit as it were :wink: ) One thing that was puzzling me was why not very many people at all have done anything similar (I know a couple have, but I'd expect lots of people to be doing things like this.)

:eek: :mushroom2:If anyone has any questions or comments please post them......... THANKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :mushroom2: :eek:


--------------------
Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

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-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

Edited by YourNameHere (02/25/05 08:16 AM)

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Offlinelonebuddha
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3832197 - 02/25/05 08:49 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

people don't want to use one drug to make another. Many people would say you're wasting good dmt. I think that's the general thought behind why most people don't do it.

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OfflineElemicin
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: lonebuddha]
    #3832292 - 02/25/05 09:32 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

yup, lonebuddha is correct, why not just use tryptamine.hcl to do it?
(thats assuming you can find/make some).

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OfflineYourNameHere
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Elemicin]
    #3832405 - 02/25/05 10:22 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Well, for one thing, people are less likely to be turned off of eating a shroom than smoking some root bark extract, and these mushies will be the most potent that most people will ever see I believe.


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3833716 - 02/25/05 04:14 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Well..Not very advanced i have to say...

I am sure people have tried it ,use the search engine to see all kinds of supplementations,ever DPT in the substrate in oredr to be converted to 4-OH-DPT.

Now,i hope you did some math on the concentration Of DI rootbark to find out if you have sufficient DMT to produce a sufficient rise in potency...

You dont give us many info..Such as the alkaloid concntration of DI,how many jars you did ,what method did you use to make the crude DI extract,how much DMT you calculated (if you calculated that is) that will go into the substrate and so on and so forth...

A word of caution! Dont expect the given DMT to be absorbed by the mycelium 100%.Also do NOT expect 100% of the DMT absorbed to be converted in actives....

That is if your extract had 100 mg DMT and of that 50% of DMT is absorbed and 50% metabolised to psilocin you have 25mg of DMT converted into good... Now,if the total yield is 60 fresh gramms of mushrooms you are going to have 4.16 mg of psilocin more per 10 fresh gramms...You think you could detect that with a bioassay?

(To make things less complicated i left out the variance of potency between fluches and individual mushrooms which would furtherly complicate things)

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OfflineAuroricDistortions
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3836810 - 02/26/05 12:14 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Did you add freebase DMT? You'd need to use a DMT salt to get the best (if any) results; freebase will remain insoluble in water unless your pH is way off.


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: AuroricDistortions]
    #3851637 - 03/01/05 11:21 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I agree I find it SO strange, a message forum as big as this, that not many people have tried this..

It is SOOO easy and fast to extract DMT, mimosa root bark is dirt cheap, like $100/kg and you can get up to 10g DMT from that. It takes me about 8 hours to go from 100g bark to about a gram of DMT. Most of that time is just waiting. I can easily just put the freebase into an acetic solution (hcl water or whatever) and could add it to a jar(s). Extracting DMT is like baby stuff compared to growing shrooms, I have enough DMT to wipe my ass with, so its not really 'wasting' a drug. Its so cheap and easy, much easier than getting tryptamine hcl or whatever.

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OfflineDarkie
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: radio879]
    #3852798 - 03/01/05 03:15 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I agree; no drugs are being wasted here, they are being used. If he wanted DMT then he would just make it. But he wants DMT Mushrooms, and thus he is making it. Good luck and let us know how they are. Here is my tip: Leaving jars for an extra week or two after FULL colonization will result in much much more potent shrooms. This is probably because the mycelia becomes "stronger." And by stronger we really mean it has just had a chance to assimilate more glucose (food). So i would say to really get the DMT up into the fruits, let them jars sit for a while in a vey dark but well aired out place for 2-4 weeks after full colonization (or at least a couple jars in case your impatiant). ~Peace~


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You gotta wake up to get faded but you gotta get up to get paided.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3856206 - 03/02/05 08:01 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I look forward to hearing about the results of your experiment.

Pay no heed to the nay-sayers. They lack imagination.


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This space for rent

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OfflineYourNameHere
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!!!UPDATE TO SUPERSHROOMS!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3856347 - 03/02/05 08:47 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Well, my interweb connection is down at my house so that's why I haven't updated this thread in a few days. And because I'm on a school library's comp so I cant go into much detail ATM, but thanks to all of you who think that its not a waste, and thanks darkie for the suggestion, good idea.

So far I have inoculated the jars (a couple Qt. jars/no DMT; four DMT saturated half-pints; a couple plain cakes with a almost half-inch layer of DMT containing verm that hopefully will become colonized enough to hold together when taken out of the jar.)

ATM there is no visible mycelium; it has been 5 days I believe (2/25/05) and I don't remeber how fast spores "took" in my other Ops so im kind of worried lol.

I have them is a specialized seed-starting tray container. It has a large styrofoam bottom that insulates, with a light in it to heat the bottom of a platic try on to, the has a slear plastic greenhouse type thing on top. I'll take pics and post ASAP, but IDK when that will be.

Ummm... what else, oh yeah, the concentration of DMT is known, but not off the top of my head but it is a sufficient amount. I think it was around 3mg per jar but I could be way off


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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OfflineYourNameHere
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Re: !!!UPDATE TO SUPERSHROOMS!!! [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3856351 - 03/02/05 08:48 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I'll be back for more info-posting ASAP but since my comp is fucked ATM IDK when...

Wooo... I love acronyms


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3860386 - 03/02/05 10:51 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

DMT isn't absorbed, per se, it's converted. Enzymatic action is near 100% efficient so I'm actually fairly sure that most of the DMT would be 4-hydroxylated.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Offlineradio879
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3860894 - 03/03/05 01:00 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ummm... what else, oh yeah, the concentration of DMT is known, but not off the top of my head but it is a sufficient amount. I think it was around 3mg per jar but I could be way off




Did you really mean only 3mg or more like 300mg? Hopefully 300!

Also, does anyone have an idea what a "limit" would be for how much DMT you could put in, and how much of it would get converted to psilocin/cybin? saturation point?

Also would any (or much) of the added DMT be converted while in the mycellium stage, or would it be mostly when its fruiting?

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InvisibleLand_Crab
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Re: !!!UPDATE TO SUPERSHROOMS!!! [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3861036 - 03/03/05 01:37 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

You should mix the DMT with salvia and smoke it.  That's quite interesting...  :slider: :tripping: :slider: :zoom: :zoom: :zoom:

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: radio879]
    #3862287 - 03/03/05 12:15 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

All unknown, other than the amount of DMT per jar. That could be figured out but I'd need more info. Since it's not my write up, I'll leave it to someone else. I think that the enzymes would convert most of the DMT into psilocybin, I'm not sure what other tryptamines are present or the route that the enzymes would take in dealing with them. I'm also not sure how much of the "excess" psilocybin would make it's way into the fruits. I'm about 100% sure that they will be more potent, however.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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Offlineradio879
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3863496 - 03/03/05 03:57 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, since this forum is all about all kinds of mushroom cultivation.. making them more potent/etc.  If this works well, I would think people would catch on and learn how easy extracting DMT is (and cheap, fast), and start adding some.  I wish there was a mega DMT thread, where people would experiment with different amounts/etc and eventually figure out how much you can put in before any more doesn't help it.  Also how potent they become.  If almost 100% of the DMT would be 4-OH'd, well in theory, heh.. a few grams of DMT which cost so cheap, in however many jars, however many shrooms are grown well 2-3g of psilocin/cybin is a LOT :smile:.  I'd love to do an extraction on all of that and have a pretty vial of mostly psilocin/cybin.

I guess as long as the ph of the water is below 7 (adding hcl to it i guess) then you'll have water with DMT Hcl solution when you add freebase DMT to it.

I don't have much space but I could inoculate a few jars, make one normal and the other two add different amounts of DMT, although right now i'd have to figure out a place to fruit it.  Hmm... me really wants to try this bad :smile:.

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OfflineYourNameHere
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: radio879]
    #3863599 - 03/03/05 04:18 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I finally got my computer fixed which makes me very happy. I checked the jars today, still no growth; while two jars showed signs of a yellowish nastyness that smells sour. How long does the average germination of spores to visibility levels take? If these don't colonize I'm going to be pissed, just because I really would be wasting DMT. But, of course it won't be too bad; basically everything used for growing mushies is very cheap.

Thanks for the support

IM me at Sicarius88 on aim for questions or suggestions


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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OfflineDem_Bones
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3864924 - 03/03/05 08:35 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

well there should not be a sour smell there is bacteria.

i will growing some out door patches and barn patches on straw are there some natural source's of dmt that could be added to the straw?
i remember Reading something about some grass ? some time back that if i remember right had dmt it i wish i had a few 80lbs bales of that


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At the bottom of this page is a search bar to search all the post and threads on the forum so you can see all the other 500 people who asked the same thing.use the top search too it has shroomery approved FAQs USE IT YOU CAN DO IT !

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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3865199 - 03/03/05 09:27 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

if you feed lsd to a marijuana plant do you get acid weed? NO.


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To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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OfflineTomatadunothing
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: TODAY]
    #3865839 - 03/04/05 12:08 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

You should get 4-HO-DMT when adding DMT to mushie substrate.

I'm thinking that the DMT might have thrown your pH way off, and that's why nothing's growing. I could be way off. Give 'em time and it just might happen, yet.

Next time, maybe you should noc' em up with liquid mycelium.

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Invisibledurban_poison
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3868557 - 03/04/05 03:21 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

baby hitler did you steal thor's car?

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OfflineYourNameHere
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!!*::UPDATE 3/4/05::* ##*GROWTH*##!! [Re: durban_poison]
    #3869231 - 03/04/05 05:38 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

!!!!Thank god some have finally germinated (right word?)!!!!
3 of out 9 I believe have started showing signs of growth, with one having one quarter sized patch and 2 other dime sized. The other two just have very small spots. I am very relieved. Though I think at least two of the three that show signs are only the DMT bottomed ones. W/e, I'm still happy. It's a start!


HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!!!


Now, to drink the night away; lol. Though I'd rather be doing almost any other drug... :smile:


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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OfflineTomatadunothing
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Re: !!*::UPDATE 3/4/05::* ##*GROWTH*##!! [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3871587 - 03/05/05 02:05 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Freaking awesome. Do you think you might use one as spawn, and supplement at casing with DMT? That would be sweet to have a full tray of one cap 4-ho-dmt shroomies.

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OfflineYourNameHere
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!!*::UPDATE 3/5/05::* ##* MORE GROWTH*##!! (not much) [Re: Tomatadunothing]
    #3873744 - 03/05/05 04:58 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, I was thinking of something like that a while ago. There is some more growth in the cakes.

Thats about it. Keep posting  :penis:

IM me :smile:


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

"It was nicely done"
-Lt. Scott Rhoemer <----Referring to a Cannabis cultivation location and setup. Click avatar.

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: TODAY]
    #3875455 - 03/06/05 12:10 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TODAY said:
if you feed lsd to a marijuana plant do you get acid weed? NO.




If you don't know what you are talking about you should be quiet. Shulgin assures us time and time again that psilocybe mycelia adds a 4-HO group (four-hydroxyl) through dehydration synthesis to DMT (and, shulgin believes) almost any compounds it comes across. Were DMT (a tryptamine "skeleton") to be 4-hydroxylated, it would become 4-HO-DMT, which is, you guessed it, psilocybin.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3876668 - 03/06/05 10:04 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
Quote:

TODAY said:
if you feed lsd to a marijuana plant do you get acid weed? NO.




If you don't know what you are talking about you should be quiet. Shulgin assures us time and time again that psilocybe mycelia adds a 4-HO group (four-hydroxyl) through dehydration synthesis to DMT (and, shulgin believes) almost any compounds it comes across. Were DMT (a tryptamine "skeleton") to be 4-hydroxylated, it would become 4-HO-DMT, which is, you guessed it, psilocybin.




actually 4-ho-dmt is psilocin and not psilocybin...


Someone told me also at a post that dmt does not get "absorbed" it gets "converted".Yes,but in order for the dmt to be converted it needs to be absorbed by the mycelium...Right? Right

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3879012 - 03/06/05 06:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal16.shtml
-----
Some fascinating studies have been done in Germany where the metabolically active mycelium of some Psilocybe species have been administered diethyltryptamine as a potential diet component. Normally, this mushroom species dutifully converts N,N-dimethyltryptamine (DMT) to psilocin, by introducing a 4-hydroxyl group into the molecule by something that is probably called an indole 4-hydroxylase by the biochemists. You put DMT in, and you get 4-hydroxy-DMT out, and this is psilocin. Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across. It was observed that if you put N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET, not a material found in nature) into the growing process, the dutiful and ignorant enzymes would hydroxylate it to 4-hydroxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (4-HO-DET) a potent drug also not known in nature. This is the title drug of this commentary. What a beautiful burr to thrust into the natural versus synthetic controversy. If a plant (a mushroom mycelium in this case) is given a man-made chemical, and this plant converts it, using its natural capabilities, into a product that had never before been known in nature, is that product natural? What is natural? This is the stuff of many long and pointless essays.
-------


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3879026 - 03/06/05 06:26 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

You have no clue what you are talking about. Mycelium "eats" by secreting enzymes that break nutrients down into chemicals that the mycelia then absorbs. I'm not sure how you'd say that the mycelia doesn't "absorb" the psilocin created by the hydroxylation, if the secreted enzymes sythesize the DMT into psilocin, then the mycelia grows outwards into the spot where the enzyme has done the synthesis, isn't it being absorbed?


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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OfflineDarkie
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3881405 - 03/07/05 02:59 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, if this is successful the obvious next step is to figure out a way to extract psilocybin from live mycelia without killing it so we can keep a constant flow of DMT being converted into magic (sorta like milking a cow). But there i go always thinking too big. If we could super saturate the mycelia with psili then perhaps it would start forming on the outside. I know my cakes always turned blue in spots towards the end; even in places i never touched. Could be psili oxidizing on the surface. Now i might just be making this up but hasnt this been done in labs using cultures of cells to produce something? Errr....it's 5am and i sound dumb. :crazy:


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You gotta wake up to get faded but you gotta get up to get paided.

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OfflineTomatadunothing
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Darkie]
    #3881504 - 03/07/05 03:57 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

So if you put mescaline in (3,4,5-trimethoxy-?-phenethylamine), would the mushroom prduce 4-ho+ mescaline?

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3881735 - 03/07/05 06:52 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SoopaX said:
You have no clue what you are talking about.  Mycelium "eats" by secreting enzymes that break nutrients down into chemicals that the mycelia then absorbs.  I'm not sure how you'd say that the mycelia doesn't "absorb" the psilocin created by the hydroxylation, if the secreted enzymes sythesize the DMT into psilocin, then the mycelia grows  outwards into the spot where the enzyme has done the synthesis, isn't it being absorbed?




Now you got me all confused :laugh: . I think (someone correct me please if im mistaken) that the mycelium excretes breakdown enzymes in order to digest the substrate and then absorb the nutrients,but the transformation to psilocin would happen IN THE MYCELIA cells and not in the substrate...the digestive enzymes would leave DMT unharmed ,its already suitable for uptake by the mycelium...

There are many searches by Gartz on the subject,and im quite sure that the transformation happens within the cell and not in the substrate.If this is indeed true then we must take into account how much DMT will be taken in the cell in order to be converted..

That tihkal entry is quite well known..But as we see from the mescaline post not many people understand it because maybe they are not familiar with terms like "enzymes" and their capabilities.

First of all the enzymes dont add an OH to everything they find accross the world...it NEEDS to be a tryptamine for the enzyme to recognize it and convert it...So mescaline is a phenethylamine,and the enzyme wont recognize it...No the enzyme cannot make 4-OH-Aspirin or 4-OH-Tylenol or 4-OH-somesubstancethatisnotatryptamine..

Then there is the other question : what are all those "positions of substitution"? Some basic chemistry can answer the question. Do you know mescalines chemical name? It is 3,4,5-trimethoxy-?-phenethylamine. So as you can see even if it could be substituted even though being a phenethylamine the 4 position is already taken up by a methoxy group...

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3882396 - 03/07/05 12:20 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
Now you got me all confused :laugh: . I think (someone correct me please if im mistaken) that the mycelium excretes breakdown enzymes in order to digest the substrate and then absorb the nutrients,but the transformation to psilocin would happen IN THE MYCELIA cells and not in the substrate...the digestive enzymes would leave DMT unharmed ,its already suitable for uptake by the mycelium...




You've said that the DMT would not be absorbed by the mycelia and now you are saying that it would.  The enzymes are the only part of the mycelial system that would be able to synthesize the 4-ho-dmt molecule from DMT.  I'm not sure which enzyme, or where it's located, but mycelia excretes a number of solutions that help it digest food and protect against competing organisms. 
Quote:


There are many searches by Gartz on the subject,and im quite sure that the transformation happens within the cell and not in the substrate.If this is indeed true then we must take into account how much DMT will be taken in the cell in order to be converted..




Enzymes are very efficient.  If enzymatic action adds the hydroxyl to DMT, then it would be totally efficient and all of the DMT would be converted.  The amount of psilocybin uptaken by the fruitbody is debatable.
Quote:


That tihkal entry is quite well known..But as we see from the mescaline post not many people understand it because maybe they are not familiar with terms like "enzymes" and their capabilities.




So why did you initially doubt what was said in TIhKAL?
Quote:


First of all the enzymes dont add an OH to everything they find accross the world...it NEEDS to be a tryptamine for the enzyme to recognize it and convert it...So mescaline is a phenethylamine,and the enzyme wont recognize it...No the enzyme cannot make 4-OH-Aspirin or 4-OH-Tylenol or 4-OH-somesubstancethatisnotatryptamine..




So you are directly contradicting Alexander Shulgin? Maybe you could post the names of the psychedelics that you've invented, the places you've gotten your degrees, the DEA licenses you've got to study drugs legally, pictures of your lab, and the names of the dozens of books and published studies that you've done.  Just so I can see who might have more knowledge.
Quote:


Then there is the other question : what are all those "positions of substitution"? Some basic chemistry can answer the question. Do you know mescalines chemical name? It is 3,4,5-trimethoxy-?-phenethylamine. So as you can see even if it could be substituted even though being a phenethylamine the 4 position is already taken up by a methoxy group...



Why are you talking about mescaline?


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Tomatadunothing]
    #3882792 - 03/07/05 01:58 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I'd have to look at the molecular structure, which I don't have time to now as I'm off too work, and see if mescaline has an open carbon 4 to bond the hydroxyl to. I don't see why it would matter, unless you have word that 4-ho-mescaline is some sort of psychedelic?


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3883535 - 03/07/05 04:39 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Whoa Soopax,loosen up :laugh:

"You've said that the DMT would not be absorbed by the mycelia and now you are saying that it would. "

No i did not say it wouldnt be absorbed...I said that a percentage of it would be absorbed,maybe not all of it (do a research on the efficiency of biological systems which although highly effective they are never 100%) .That simply means that not all 100% of the DMT put into the substrate would end up IN the mycelium...

"Enzymes are very efficient. If enzymatic action adds the hydroxyl to DMT, then it would be totally efficient and all of the DMT would be converted. The amount of psilocybin uptaken by the fruitbody is debatable."

Yes ,enzymes are VERY efficient...Not omnipotent though,and not touching the desired 100%.For example Check out the biological efficiency of the most abudant enzyme of planet called RUBISCO...You will be disappointed by its low efficiency

By the way ,i researched it further and the synthesis of psilocin and psilocybin happens in the mycelium and in the fruitbody.The mycelium doesnt spill its hydroxylases on the substrate but keeps them in the cell...

"So why did you initially doubt what was said in TIhKAL?"

I didnt ...Read on:

"So you are directly contradicting Alexander Shulgin? Maybe you could post the names of the psychedelics that you've invented, the places you've gotten your degrees, the DEA licenses you've got to study drugs legally, pictures of your lab, and the names of the dozens of books and published studies that you've done. Just so I can see who might have more knowledge."

Whoa soldier,sharpen those reading skills of yours! Shulgin has said: "Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across."

He is reffering ONLY to tryptamines!!! "It is simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any TRYPTAMINE it came across" ....TRYPTAMINE! Not phenethylamine,not tylenol,not scopolamine,not caffeine...AMT maybe,DPT maybe but not anything that is NOT tryptamine.

"Why are you talking about mescaline?"

Because Tomatadonuthing said : "So if you put mescaline in (3,4,5-trimethoxy-?-phenethylamine), would the mushroom prduce 4-ho+ mescaline?" and the short answer is NO.

Now if we substitute one of the methoxys in mescaline (which is out of topic since mycelium canNOT do that) lets say the one in the fourth position with a hydroxy group ,yes there are chances this would be psychedelic!

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3885158 - 03/07/05 10:38 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
No i did not say it wouldnt be absorbed...I said that a percentage of it would be absorbed,maybe not all of it (do a research on the efficiency of biological systems which although highly effective they are never 100%) .That simply means that not all 100% of the DMT put into the substrate would end up IN the mycelium...




100% of the liquid put into your body isn't filtered and processed? thats just one example. I can't really think of too many enzyme actions other than the conversion of carbohydrates and proteins and I'm too drunk to think of specific ones. I've never seen a plant that couldn't stand up because the cellulose couldn't be formed.

We've gotten somewhat off track here, though. If enzymes are only, say 90% efficient, thats still 90% of the DMT being turned into psilocin. Now, lets say that only 50% of that goes into the fruitbody, thats a pretty good amount of psilocin for hardly doing any work. I'm sure that their are upward limits of how much DMT will be hydroxylated and make it's way as psilocin into the fruitbody, but I think that adding DMT to the substrate will result in a noticable effect on the final psilocin content in the fruitbody.
Quote:


Yes ,enzymes are VERY efficient...Not omnipotent though,and not touching the desired 100%.For example Check out the biological efficiency of the most abudant enzyme of planet called RUBISCO...You will be disappointed by its low efficiency




I feel like i'm in a strip club here. All sorts of shit, but nothing being finished. Are you saying that adding DMT to the substrate won't increase the potency of psilocin/psilocybin in the mushroom?
Quote:


By the way ,i researched it further and the synthesis of psilocin and psilocybin happens in the mycelium and in the fruitbody.The mycelium doesnt spill its hydroxylases on the substrate but keeps them in the cell...




Would it be too much to ask for you to cite some of this research? Show me some links and sources.
Quote:


Whoa soldier,sharpen those reading skills of yours! Shulgin has said: "Maybe if you put Mickey Mouse in, you would get 4-hydroxy-Mickey Mouse out. It is as if the mushroom psyche didn't really care what it was working with, it was simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any tryptamine it came across."




Yes, and you DIRECTLY CONTRADICTED that with YOUR statement
Quote:



First of all the enzymes dont add an OH to everything they find accross the world...it NEEDS to be a tryptamine for the enzyme to recognize it and convert it...So mescaline is a phenethylamine,and the enzyme wont recognize it...No the enzyme cannot make 4-OH-Aspirin or 4-OH-Tylenol or 4-OH-somesubstancethatisnotatryptamine..




According to Shulgin, it would make 4-HO-<insert thing here>. I'm not talking about phenelethylamines, I'm talking about DMT. All you've fucking done is nitpicked my statements. Say what you fucking think about this. Will adding DMT to a susbtrate equal more psilocin or not?
Quote:


He is reffering ONLY to tryptamines!!! "It is simply compelled to do its sacred duty to 4-hydroxylate any TRYPTAMINE it came across" ....TRYPTAMINE! Not phenethylamine,not tylenol,not scopolamine,not caffeine...AMT maybe,DPT maybe but not anything that is NOT tryptamine.




I feel like I'm trying to jack off to a soft porn. No real action, and nothing that goes anywhere. i'm pretty much done with this debate, adding DMT will, in all ways that I can see, make the mushrooms produce more psilocin. If you disagree with that, SAY THAT YOU DO, and then tell me why


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3886160 - 03/08/05 05:14 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Yes,Gartz has already demonstrated that adding DMT to the substrate will increase psilocin content.Others have shown (as shulgin correctly says) that if you put other tryptamines in such as DPT you will detect 4-oh-DPT in the fruitbody.

So in short YES,even if you put 1 mg of DMT in the substrate you will have MORE psilocin than if you didnt put it.Im not arguing that,since it has already been proven.What i argued from the start is that calculations should be done at how much DMT is added so as the rise in psilocin content to be noticable during a bioassay,and this is what all people in here are interested in...Nobody would actually give a fuck if instead of (lets say) 20 mg of psilocin per 5 grams of mushroom the addition results in 22 mg of psilocin per 5 grams since the bioassay (in other words eating it) is not going to be conclusive...If on the other hand by calibrating the amount of DMT added instead of 20mg/5g you get a whoping 30mg/5g that would be of use as far as eating the mushroom goes...

What it really boils down to is : Its not really adequate to "just add some DMT and have super shrooms".What is adequate is to measure the DMT added and do at least some rough calculations of what COULD be the final product in psilocin per gram of dried matter so as to exert some conclusions...Addind "some" desmanthus or "some" mimosa extract to the substrate will increase psilocin.The whole point is if the increase will be significant to be noticed by the tripper...

I really cant see why i got you wound up....Im not disagreeing with this thread,im merely trying to provide some basis to make the experiment more sound and if it works then make it a standard practice! We are on the same fighting side,this is by no means an attempt to start a "civil war" between the lovers of the mushroom experience...After all we both care for noticable increases in the psilocin content,dont we?

On the question of where the transformation happens have a look here : http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/24373 .Even for chromate the starting material of the normal biosynthetic pathway (which is wayyy back than any tryptamine product) the enzymes are in the cytosol of the fungal cells... Given the enzymatic reactions that take place and given that they require certain "microclimate conditions" to occure (such as certain pH as most enzymes require) we can say that such a proccess is happening withing the fungal cell and not on the substrate.Since the whole process starts in the fungal cell the excrection of the "tryptamine phospatase" on the substrate would be of no use to the mushroom (why would evolution allow for such a waste of energeticaly speaking precious enzyme on the substrate,when all the other ingredients of the path way are already in the cytosol?)

Another approach to that : Psilocin belongs the the compounds of the secondary metabolism.All secondary metabolism products found so far are manufactured within the cell.How do we know that? All enzymes are located within the cell,BUT mushrooms excrete digestive enzymes which perform catabolism (breaking down) on he substrate in order to be "digestible" for them.Conversion of DMT to 4-HO-DMT is anabolism and this happens (energy efficiency wise and "microclimate" wise) when all the broken down materials are imported in the cell...

By the way,you are correct about the negative feedback loop,some substances can down regulate the production of psilocin...Now if we coul SOMEHOW interfere with the downregulation we could see some very nice results...Unfortunatelly what comes to mind is genetics (like destroying the part of the DNA code that downregulation of the alkaloid production is mediated through).

So in bottom line we do not disagree.I just highlighted the need for better quantitive clarification of the substrate enriching experiment.I guess we are on the same boat

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Psiloman]
    #3887798 - 03/08/05 02:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
So in short YES,even if you put 1 mg of DMT in the substrate you will have MORE psilocin than if you didnt put it.Im not arguing that,since it has already been proven.What i argued from the start is that calculations should be done at how much DMT is added so as the rise in psilocin content to be noticable during a bioassay,and this is what all people in here are interested in...Nobody would actually give a fuck if instead of (lets say) 20 mg of psilocin per 5 grams of mushroom the addition results in 22 mg of psilocin per 5 grams since the bioassay (in other words eating it) is not going to be conclusive...If on the other hand by calibrating the amount of DMT added instead of 20mg/5g you get a whoping 30mg/5g that would be of use as far as eating the mushroom goes...




I'd say use a saturating amount of DMT and see what occurs.
Quote:


What it really boils down to is : Its not really adequate to "just add some DMT and have super shrooms".What is adequate is to measure the DMT added and do at least some rough calculations of what COULD be the final product in psilocin per gram of dried matter so as to exert some conclusions...Addind "some" desmanthus or "some" mimosa extract to the substrate will increase psilocin.The whole point is if the increase will be significant to be noticed by the tripper...




Using a digital scale to weight out the DMT crystals from MHRB and adding those to a substrate would be the variant in the experiment. The control would be substrate (the exact same substrate) minus the DMT. When you are finished, you would extract and crystallize the psilocin and psilocybin from a large sample (say, 50grams) of each batch. Then you'd know.
Quote:



So in bottom line we do not disagree.I just highlighted the need for better quantitive clarification of the substrate enriching experiment.I guess we are on the same boat



Yup, lets get to experimenting.


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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man

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OfflineYourNameHere
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3921653 - 03/15/05 03:43 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Lots of growth and another 2 jars have started colonizing.

I had accidentally left the heating element off for a day or two; for some reason it just turned itself off. While the temperature was down, the mycelium seems to have tried to spread itself out faster by sending out more ropey-like strands of mycelium, instead of the usual cottony goodness.

I took some pictures for your viewing enjoyment


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Anything posted by me on this or any forum of communication is solely for entertainment value and should not be taken seriously.

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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3925227 - 03/16/05 11:48 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

If anyone wants to explain how to attach photos to a post I would be grateful and you wouldnt need to go to my gallery


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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3925474 - 03/16/05 01:04 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Upload them under "MY PICS" at the top left of your shroomery experience and place a URL to them.


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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3935444 - 03/18/05 11:40 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

MY MOTHER FOUND THEM AND TOOK THEM!!! AHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGH!!!! :frown: Goddamnit!!!!!! Now I either have to figure out a way to get them back, or just let them go and make some more. I am SOOOOOO pissed. OMG...


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3935782 - 03/18/05 12:59 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

I feel your pain...  :crying:

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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #3935856 - 03/18/05 01:24 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

ahh, hu... Mabey you should have disscused this with her, show some respect.

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Offlinedepthofinfinty
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Legoulash]
    #3936173 - 03/18/05 02:41 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

ahh how unfortunate , i wouldve liked to hear about the outcome.

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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: YourNameHere]
    #3936967 - 03/18/05 05:56 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by oneducktwoducks

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InvisibleSoopaX
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: oneducktwoducks]
    #3953498 - 03/22/05 12:39 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

She wouldn't have any of her property forfeited. Drug forfeiture laws are only brought into play when they can prove, or suspect, that you've purchased something with your drug money, or that the owner was actively involved in the process and held the property for that sole purpose.


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Offlineradio879
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: SoopaX]
    #3991206 - 03/30/05 03:59 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

I've read that when you add DMT (or DPT, DIPT, etc) your supposed to add the hcl salt (or maybe another salt) is this true and i wonder the reason? Anyway, i guess all this means is dissolving your DMT in some water with a drop or two of hcl and adding it to the water you'd put in the substrate (making sure not too much acid is added, keeping the ph near normal). Well if you wanted the DMT distributed throughout the water you'd most likely have to add a little acid to dissolve it anyway.

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OfflineDarkie
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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: radio879]
    #3993120 - 03/30/05 11:43 PM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Naw dude. The drug forfeiture thing is completly dependent on how a judge rules, not really on laws. And a judge wouldnt even bat an eye at the FBI selling your mom's house for 1/5 of its market price at an auction.


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Re: Super-shrooms (DMT infused from desmanthus) :):):):) [Re: Darkie]
    #3994755 - 03/31/05 10:41 AM (19 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

And a judge wouldnt even bat an eye at the FBI selling your mom's house for 1/5 of its market price at an auction




:thumbup:


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So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..."  -Agar

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