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Offlinedr0mni
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Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case
    #3823164 - 02/23/05 06:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Newsbrief: Bush Administration Appeals Ruling Allowing Religious Ayahuasca Use 2/18/05
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/375/huascacase.shtml
In one of his first acts as US Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales has asked the US Supreme Court to overturn a series of federal court rulings allowing a New Mexico church to use an hallucinogenic tea known as ayahuasca in its rituals. Ayahuasca is both illegal and potentially dangerous, the government argued.

In November, the full US 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver upheld two previous rulings blocking the federal government from interfering in the religious practices of the US branch of the Brazilian church, the Union of the Vegetable (UDV). The case began in 1999, when US Customs agents raided the church's US headquarters in Santa Fe, NM, and seized 30 gallons of ayahuasca, a tea brewed from two plants found in the Amazon. But Customs picked on the wrong people. The US branch of the UDV is headed by Seagram's whiskey fortune heir Jeffrey Bronfman, who promptly sued for relief claiming violations of the First Amendment and the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Bronfman and the church have won every time in court on the issue.

In an early hint the Bush administration was prepared to continue to fight the case, US Solicitor General Paul Greenburg in early December asked for and won a temporary injunction from the Supreme Court blocking the church from using its sacrament until -- and if -- the case made its way to the nation's highest court. With his February 10 announcement, Gonzales has made it official.

In a filing seeking Supreme Court review of the case, the Justice Department attacked the 10th Circuit's ruling and reasoning. "The court's decision has mandated that the federal government open the nation's borders to the importation, circulation and usage of a mind-altering hallucinogen and threatens to inflict irreparable harm on international cooperation in combating transnational narcotics trafficking," the filing said.

If the high court agrees to take the case, it will not be heard until the next term."


I'm telling you guys, we've got to get the word out! Tell people about how the gov't is supressing people's spirituality! DO SOMETHING!! If the UDV wins this case then the path is set for legalized psychedelic religions!

FIGHT FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN!!


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3823209 - 02/23/05 06:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

In one of his first acts as US Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales has asked the US Supreme Court to overturn a series of federal court rulings allowing a New Mexico church to use an hallucinogenic tea known as ayahuasca in its rituals.




His first acts...jeez, this sets a wonderful stage for the rest of his term doesn't it?  :sad:  I wonder what we're going to be in for. 

I have been thinking about this, and I think I am going to start sending articles like this to my parents and other 'straight' friends to try and gather their interest about what's happening.


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Invisibletak
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: MOTH]
    #3823582 - 02/23/05 07:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

cash talks


--------------------
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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: tak]
    #3823596 - 02/23/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think the Supreme Court will set things straight. With the Texas band on sodomy case they established that citizens have the LIBERTY to do what they like in the privacy of their own homes. At least SOMEBODY believes in liberty.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3823965 - 02/23/05 08:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

the govts case seems pretty airtight at this point..so the real question is how the ruling will affect ethnobotanicals in general..and in particular other more common DMT containers such as desmanthus illinoensis and the DMT present within the human body...


Edited by Annapurna1 (02/23/05 08:58 PM)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: Annapurna1]
    #3824216 - 02/23/05 09:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

How can DMT be considered a drug if it is produced within the body? Wouldn't that make it a hormone?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3830309 - 02/24/05 11:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The church could easily grow their own plants within the U.S. I'm not sure if they actually imported their herbs or what, but this isn't a trafficking case. The gov't is flat out trying to stop them from using it! That is a blatant violation of religious freedom...


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OfflineTurnpikeGates
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3832309 - 02/25/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My religion consists of smoking crystal meth and watching cartoons.

I'm not saying the government isn't full of shit, but things that are illegal are illegal whether they are part of a religion or not, except under special circumstances. I think one of those has to do with indigenous peoples. Aside from that, the government's argument is internally consistent. Doesn't mean it's right, but it's wrong the same way it's wrong I can't smoke crack in the park.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: TurnpikeGates]
    #3832340 - 02/25/05 11:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

> but things that are illegal are illegal whether they are part of a religion or not, except under special circumstances.

Ah yes, the special circumstances... such is if the religion that is breaking the law happens to be a religion that the people in power agree with?  My point, who gets to decide if a religions illegal practices are exempt or not.  This isn't an easy question to answer.

Catholic communion must have alcohol in it.  With this in mind, in the US, it is illegal for the Catholic chuch to provide communion, containing the very dangerous drug alcohol, to anybody under twenty one years old...

American Indians have been drinking peyote since before the Europeans realized the Earth wasn't flat.  Now we are telling the American Indians that although we stole and spoiled their land, and despite that claim that we offer freedom of religion, that they cannot pratice their religion because it involves the use of an illegal substance.

Now for the fun case... what about the Satanist that wants to perform a human sacrifice?  Freedom of religion, yes?  Assume that the sacrifice is willing to die for their religion.  Freedom of religion?

Then you have the handful of people like myself that follow no organized religion, but feel that mind expanding substances are a spiritual sacrament.  I am not asking for the right to take LSD and go party, but I would appreciate being allowed to take LSD and meditate...  no freedom of religion for us.  :frown:


--------------------
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OfflineTurnpikeGates
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: Seuss]
    #3832385 - 02/25/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Right on. I'll take it one step further though. I AM asking for the right to take LSD and go party. Or Heroin, or PCP, or Cocaine, or Salvia. Consensual crimes are bullshit.
(but hallucinogens are a mor compelling case)


Edited by TurnpikeGates (02/25/05 12:14 PM)


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: Seuss]
    #3832417 - 02/25/05 12:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Human sacrifice is a pretty extreme example, and controversial. I think everyone has the right to die if they want. let's not get off topic though. We're not talking about human life as a sacrament, we're talking about plants, the taking of which does no harm to others (unless you're reckless and irresponsible, like driving while tripping!)

I haven't heard a lot of people talk about how they had intense spiritual experiances smoking crack and getting high. But there is a very large consensus between users of psychedelics that the experiance is indeed spiritual. These plants have been used for centuries by natives, but I don't have to be a native to experiance these things! Allowing only natives to partake is just as much racial discrimination as segregation was. Race does not determine rights.

My spiritual experiances are valid, even if I don't belong to an organization.


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OfflineTurnpikeGates
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3832431 - 02/25/05 12:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well the indigenous peoples exception (if it exists, I don't know anything about it in regard to illegal substances) is recognizing the fact that our government (its predecessors) stole the land from the people who were here first, and so the law doesn't apply to them with respect to their sovereign (ha!) territory at least. It's the same reasons you can have "Indian Casinos" in a state where gambling is ostensibly illegal. So I wouldn't call it racist. It is descriminatory though, but maybe reasonably so. But that belies the point that we should be able to do whatever the hell we want to our bodies.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: TurnpikeGates]
    #3834969 - 02/25/05 11:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, religious use of peyote is also protected for non-natives in a few states like Arizona and Oregon... So I guess my discrimination argument is bunk, but still...


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3834994 - 02/25/05 11:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think if people figured out how to make their dreams a reality that the government would deem it dangerous and illegal?


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: faslimy]
    #3837387 - 02/26/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Laws are made by those in power to protect the power structure. Psychedelics are powerful deconditioning agents which breakdown and reconstruct social values and norms. This is the biggest threat to the gov't (as seen in the 1960's) and that is why LSD was made illegal.

If people could acheive their dreams without having to rely on power structures then that would most definitly be made illegal by those in power! But as long as we rely on the system we have to obey it. If we want to get a house and food, we have to have a job. To get a job we have to have a social security # and pay taxes. To do that we have to go through the beaurocratic system which just wants to fuck us over and take the money that we make with the jobs we don't need.

"We work at jobs we hate to buy shit we don't need!" - Chuck Palahniuk


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Offlinefaslimy
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3837579 - 02/26/05 05:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah that much is obvious, it seems most people in this forum aren't interested in removing power? They just want to take left and right stances and argue about exactly what the government wants them to argue about. Divide and rule.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: faslimy]
    #3837820 - 02/26/05 06:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

faslimy said:
Yeah that much is obvious, it seems most people in this forum aren't interested in removing power?




I am interested in removing power but I'm unsure about the way to do it.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3848377 - 02/28/05 08:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

With the Texas band(sic) on sodomy case they established that citizens have the LIBERTY to do what they like in the privacy of their own homes.




That is what appears to have happened on the surface. However, I think the more lasting effect that decision will have is the squashing of state's rights by federal power. That case appears to have been a win for liberty, but really it was a win for big brother.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: Viveka]
    #3853348 - 03/01/05 06:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The federal gov't is actually unconstitutional. Any federal law completely violates the tenth amendment of states rights. I think that's what the American Civil war was all about, right? Big Brother (the federalists) won that war and has ruled ever since.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Our gov't hates psychedelic religion... new development in ayahuasca case [Re: dr0mni]
    #3853904 - 03/01/05 08:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i remember reading about this case last year. and the government mentioned International Treaty laws. can the federal government say the same thing about pot?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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