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Invisibleniteowl
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Reincarnation...do you believe in it?
    #3822396 - 02/23/05 01:19 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Do you beleive in reincarnation?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (02/23/05 01:18 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3822551 - 02/23/05 01:51 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

"i never believed in reincarnation in any of my previous lives, so why should i start in this one?"







:wink:


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care

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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3822579 - 02/23/05 01:58 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

It doesn't happen. The wages of ignorance is death of consciousness.


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Offlinebelowground
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3822619 - 02/23/05 02:08 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

i believe our consciousness never dies, but rather we are forced to float about freely and witness things, while retaining the essential mindset we held most of our lives.

this is why i try to stay laid back and mellow! i don't want to be an angry spirit after i die.

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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3822635 - 02/23/05 02:14 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I'm not sure on Reincarnation yet. I'm just sort of keeping my eyes and ears open at this point. I don't have a strong opinion on it either way.

Although I do like what Waking Life says that reincarnation is just a poetic expression of what happens with energy. (or whatever they said)

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: MOTH]
    #3823350 - 02/23/05 04:42 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Well, im not going to really give my answer on this... but ask some questions. These have easy explanations, but no definite answer.

Where do inate abilities come from? How can a 6 year old play a pagannini solo perfectly?

Have you ever had knowledge of something which no one has ever told you? People with children will understand this one when they come out with facts you didnt even know.

and here is a good story, about a woman who never visited england, and lived mainly in the south. Had a strong southern accent by accoutns from her family. She hit her head one day, went unconscious for a while, and woke up with a thick british dialect.

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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3823514 - 02/23/05 05:18 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

What happens if the world were to go up in a mushroom cloud?

Do we wait in the netherworld until living conditions permit life to come back or are we back instantly as cockroaches?


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3823523 - 02/23/05 05:20 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

no, probably just move on to another planet... like the rest of the smart souls....lol

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3823532 - 02/23/05 05:20 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I don't hold that belief.


>Where do inate abilities come from?
-Genetics.

>How can a 6 year old play a pagannini solo perfectly?
-Practise. While innate means "Possessed at birth," a 6 year old has had over 52 thousand hours of life experience. Remember we _learn_ to play music instruments... and a childs ability to learn compounded with a parents determination to see them succeed can go a long way.

>Have you ever had knowledge of something which no one has ever told you? People with children will understand this one when they come out with facts you didnt even know.
-There are many more ways to aquire knowledge than being told. And while I don't have any kids, I imagine that when I do I'll be able to, in general, form fairly accurate guesses by drawing on my own experiences as a child.

>A woman who never visited england, and lived mainly in the south. Had a strong southern accent by accoutns from her family. She hit her head one day, went unconscious for a while, and woke up with a thick british dialect.
-This story may be just that, a story. I have never heard of head trama resulting in such a thing. But I don't see how speaking differently after a head trauma would be evidence of reincarnation, especially given the age cues of this woman. Reincarnation means "Rebirth of the soul in another body" not "I hit my head and now I'm a different person" :wink:

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OfflineCaptainJailew
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3823553 - 02/23/05 05:25 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3235934.stm


Quote:


Last year, they confirmed that patients can develop a foreign accent without ever having been exposed to the accent.

This is because they haven't really picked up the accent. Their speech patterns have changed. Injury to their brain causes them to lengthen syllables, alter their pitch or mispronounce sounds. These changes make it sound like they have picked up an accent. They may lengthen syllables.

The first case of foreign accent syndrome was reported in 1941 in Norway, after a young Norwegian woman suffered shrapnel injury to the brain during an air raid.

Initially, she had severe language problems from which she eventually recovered. However, she was left with what sounded like a strong German accent and was ostracized by her community.







There is a story about a woman who had a stroke (same story?) and then came back with a british accent. It is called "Foreign Accent Syndrome" and has happened before, it still puzzles scientists though.


--------------------
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CaptainJailew]
    #3823689 - 02/23/05 05:52 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

OK, if it was genetics then identical twins would have the same and equal innate ability. Or we could just clone a person who has this inate ability and see if they have that same inate ability...

now, maybe a 6 year old has 52,000 hours of life so far, but i doubt the first two years.... easily couldnt be counted as practice. I am also willing to bet that even if you had 52,000 hours of practice you couldnt play la campenella on the violin perfectly.

I have always had musical ability. however, i cant draw a stick figure correctly to save my life, while everyone else in my family is talented with drawing, on both sides. Saying inate ability is due to genetics is like saying there is a gay gene.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3823690 - 02/23/05 05:52 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I'm not sure how to answer that. I believe that we are all part of a network of consciousness which is conscious in itself. So it's not like there's an individual consciousness which has a linear continuity(the concept of linear time is itself rather simplistic), but rather, we are all incarnations of the same consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. I am you. You are me. We are all one. I am a 15th-century aristocrat, and a beggar in India who hasn't been born yet. Our subjective experience hides this fact. So, in a way, I guess I would say I believe in incarnation, without the "re-" prefix.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3824033 - 02/23/05 07:01 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

>If it was genetics then identical twins would have the same and equal innate ability.
-That is very possibly true, but what kind of tests could we give to a newborn identical twins to confirm this? After birth, each child begins to develops a different perceptual set, so the more time spent before administering the test would include more and more extraneous variables.


>Or we could just clone a person who has this inate ability and see if they have that same inate ability...
-If the results confirmed this, then good for me. If the results did not confirm this, then it would mean that the presumed innate ability the experiment was set-up to identify... was not innate, and learned (still good for me)

>now, maybe a 6 year old has 52,000 hours of life so far, but i doubt the first two years.... easily couldnt be counted as practice.
-I calculated 52,000 hours of life experience. Obviously it's possible to learn a difficult song over this amount of time, and I'll draw on your example as my support.

Which one should Occam's razor cut?
A person who knew how to perfectly play la campenella on the violin died, was reincarnated into another body, managed to find a violin and recalled how to play that same song from the previous life
or
A child is given a violin and is encouraged to learn.
(and what an odd person that child would have been in past lives, being a mater violin player, but not being able to master deification or eating)

>Saying inate ability is due to genetics is like saying there is a gay gene.
-That statement is only logical when you can make the case that the being gay is innate (by birth) However, this is your claim and not mine and I will not defend it.

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3824161 - 02/23/05 07:30 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

a million tiny robot.
tiny toy.
fizzling around in joy.

engulfed in rage
the endless space
tiny dots embrace
create the gigantic face
behind the mage.

a million tiny robot.
i said
fizzling in my head.

a million tiny robot.
in my face
lift me up to space.

a million tiny robot.
told me to stay.
left me, and drifted away.

into daydream
bright and colorful
time gleam

a million tiny robot.
sets the pace.
sent out into space.

this might be me
being dead


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

Edited by slaphappy (02/23/05 07:33 PM)

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3824179 - 02/23/05 07:34 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I'd really like to believe it's true, but I doubt it....

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: slaphappy]
    #3824258 - 02/23/05 07:53 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I'd really like to believe its not.

death doesn't exist, and blowing your brains out wont help.

everything sucks and we will never get rid of the pain.

have a good day.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3824353 - 02/23/05 08:16 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I DO believe in reincarnation. This isn't something I have always believed in. I was raised in a Christian home(we all know what they believe) where reincarnation wasn't taught. As I have gotten older I have read about MANY different religious view points and the one that makes the MOST sense IMO is the belief in reincarnation.

Lets look at how our society engages in "play". When playing a sport(baseball,football...) their isn't just "one strike and your out" in baseball. You get 3 attempts to hit the ball. The pitcher gets 4 attempts to throw a "hittable" pitch. Football is the same way, 4 tries to get your 10 yards not 1. Its the same in video games.

Life is like a video game, if you believe in reincarnation. In reincarnation, the "soul" gets to pick the life experience that will enrich itself the most. In a video game you get to pick the game that will be most challenging for you.

In MY view of reincarnation, if you die before learning the lesson this life has to give you have to start over. Yes I'm talking about a "do over" you start the whole life experience over again. Same parents same EVERYTHING until you get it right.

This answers MANY questions I have. Why do some people have "dreams" or "visions" about the near future that come tru. Coincidence? No. The "dreamer" is remembering important events from his/her last time around.

It also helps to understand that "time" as we see it is an illusion. Just like in a video game their is time, but it is separate from our time. You can save your video game and come back to it at the same "time" that you left, even if in the real world many days have gone by.

As I get older this view point is only reinforced. At a very young age I could not see myself as an old man. I thought that I would not see 40. This "feeling" never really went away, until recently. As I got closer to 40 I kept getting a feeling of dread, that something BAD was going to happen. I didn't know what but I was almost certain that "something" would happen to me and I would be killed before the age of 40.

Let me back up a little and explain why I no longer feel like I wont see 40. I have ALWAYS had a very bad temper. I knew that I needed to get some sort of control over this part of my personality. I believe that in this life I would be given "tests" to see if I could beat my "anger demon". It was almost like I could "sense" what was coming. The past couple of years tension in my personal and professional life has been building. Almost to the point of me loosing my temper and killing either myself or someone else. I was able (after years of learning how to meditate) to get rid of the anger and not let it control my actions.

Now that I past the test, I see myself living to be VERY old. Even having grandchildren.

The reason I could not see past 40 before is because in the last attempt at this life I couldn't control my anger and it destroyed me. Now I have moved past where I was at last time and is like I have a new lease on life. Things dint seem so difficult now. Like a load has been lifted.

By all accounts I should be a nervous wreck. I have been on medical "leave of absence" since Nov. due to shoulder surgery. My employer fired me 2 days after communing off the leave of absence. I have gotten SO far behind on bills it ain't funny but my stress levels are SURPRISINGLY low. I have no worries about the future. Little things that happen let me know that this was meant to be. My wife has recently gotten a new job. My health insurance will quit on the day that my wife's health insurance starts. Coincidence? I dint believe in it any more. It is "Gods" way of letting me know that this was meant to be.


The funny thing is their is NO way to prove or disprove this theory/belief. No amount of "reason" or "logic" can answer these kind of questions.

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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3825129 - 02/23/05 10:29 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

ha!

21 votes.

7
7
7

33%
33%
33%

muahahahahahahaha!

:lol::lol::lol:


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: JCoke]
    #3825296 - 02/23/05 10:57 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

WOW!

A three way tie!

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3825801 - 02/24/05 12:30 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

So, which one is it? is it genetics? or learned ability?

It isnt like the fetus comes out with a violin made out of placenta playing la campanella. If a kid has a knack for something, it will usually find them. Shoving a violin in someones hands and forcing them to play isnt going to make them master it. A previous affinity for it and that "like riding a bicycle" feeling just seems to point to knowledge pre birth. Now, im not saying it is past lives, it could be just a collective inducement of music, but there is a knowledge prior to birth IMO.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3825849 - 02/24/05 12:39 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Now, im not saying it is past lives, it could be just a collective inducement of music, but there is a knowledge prior to birth IMO.




Wher did the knowledge come from if not a previous life?

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3825977 - 02/24/05 01:19 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Gleaming something from the collective knowledge of the collective consciousness.

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InvisibleIntelligentMind
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3826024 - 02/24/05 01:40 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Hmm..I believe its possible. You should check out some books by Jane Roberts. Amazing books... they'll definately bring upon an open mind to you. Its believed that everything is happening now and that you control your past and your future. Time is just perceived as being linear (to us) Which in fact there is no past, no present, or future, just the "now". Jane Roberts channels an entity from higher realms who dictates how the structure of reality is formed. Seth claim that Jesus was composed of 3 different personalities.. thus, giving him full consciousness. Seth says that Jesus is the mediator to all that is (god) and it's up to us to find our multidimensional selves inorder to have full consciousness. The Christ happening was an actual drama created and played out in a number of dimensions and we percieved it as him dying on a cross in our three dimensional reality that we're in. The 12 decipiles of Chris were just different characteristics of his personality (His multidimensional selves). I don't want to spoil the rest of this so check out the books =P

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3835449 - 02/26/05 12:03 AM (19 years, 26 days ago)

>Shoving a violin in someones hands and forcing them to play isnt going to make them master it.
-Children can be molded, or at the very least influenced. I imagine many parents are trying to inspire their kids, or give them some talent that they can use. I have seen 4 year olds play the xylophones with success, so it can be done. There must be many more parents of non-impressive children than parents of savants... or raising a child like that wouldn't get television exposure.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3850817 - 03/01/05 04:54 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

TheShroomHermit said:
>Shoving a violin in someones hands and forcing them to play isnt going to make them master it.
-Children can be molded, or at the very least influenced. I imagine many parents are trying to inspire their kids, or give them some talent that they can use. I have seen 4 year olds play the xylophones with success, so it can be done. There must be many more parents of non-impressive children than parents of savants... or raising a child like that wouldn't get television exposure.





My daughter never touched a piano until she was about 5-6. Within a couple of DAYS she was able to play some simple songs by ear. We didnt shove the piano in her hand, she just had a "natural" ability.

Where did that "ability" come from? It could only have been prior musical experience from her past lives.

What other explanation is their?

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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3850854 - 03/01/05 05:42 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

my other explanation is that very young children have a great potential of learning, something we progressively lose while aging and cementing concepts about the world and its ways. maybe the potential really is at its maximum until the moment we enter school and start being molded through specific learning patterns and subjects.
I think a child with a free mind can use this potential to acquire abilities through different and more effective means.

doesn't mean rebirth ain't possible. but for the time being I have nothing telling me it is.

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InvisibleCherryBomM
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3851111 - 03/01/05 08:47 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
The reason I could not see past 40 before is because in the last attempt at this life I couldn't control my anger and it destroyed me. Now I have moved past where I was at last time and is like I have a new lease on life. Things dint seem so difficult now. Like a load has been lifted.





This is a brilliant self-observation about karma and reincarnation.

I find it hard to beleive that we have one chance to live this life and learn all there is to learn.  There is too much out there.  As humans, we are too slow, too simple too get it all done in one day so to speak.  How are we supposed to evolve into greater beings, how are we supposed to aquire the wisdom of the ages if we only get ONE chance at ONE life?

I think before we come here, we choose our challenges.  We choose our friends who help us learn, we choose our parents who guide us through childhood.  We may even choose our death.  If we fail the challenges that we set up for ourselves, we get a chance to do it again in this life, or the next until we get it right.

It's for our own good.  The more we learn, the better people we become.  Someone born into wealth and money will never know the humility of poverty.  To be a well-rounded soul both are important, both contain different lessons about human relationships and personal limitations.

It just.... makes sense.

You know?

:heart:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3851507 - 03/01/05 10:52 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

yes but mostly as an allegory for consciousness in this life.
every 3 seconds a new self receives control of the beast as if elected
from the ranks of delegates in the personality matrix.

occasionally one is re-elected for a few terms.
the proccess is relentless.

so, yes, we re-incarnate daily and more.

beyond that - well, something may seethe through the dimensions we do not understand, and that too may stick around for a while, carniciously.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3852250 - 03/01/05 01:29 PM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

TheShroomHermit said:
>Shoving a violin in someones hands and forcing them to play isnt going to make them master it.
-Children can be molded, or at the very least influenced. I imagine many parents are trying to inspire their kids, or give them some talent that they can use. I have seen 4 year olds play the xylophones with success, so it can be done. There must be many more parents of non-impressive children than parents of savants... or raising a child like that wouldn't get television exposure.





My daughter never touched a piano until she was about 5-6. Within a couple of DAYS she was able to play some simple songs by ear. We didnt shove the piano in her hand, she just had a "natural" ability.

Where did that "ability" come from? It could only have been prior musical experience from her past lives.

What other explanation is their?



Playing by ear is a talent that some people have and some people don't. I was able to play some simple songs by ear within hours of picking up a guitar. Now, if your daughter was able to play Pachabel's Canon in its entirety without having heard it before, then I'd be a little more likely to believe some supernatural explanation.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3855519 - 03/02/05 01:36 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Playing by ear is a talent that some people have and some people don't.

That explains absolutely nothing.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3855524 - 03/02/05 01:38 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Playing by ear is a talent that some people have and some people don't.

That explains absolutely nothing.



What is there to explain? The fact that people are different?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Silversoul]
    #3855612 - 03/02/05 02:09 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

Anyone believe in preincarnation? That is living in the future traveling back and ascending to another form by virute of what you did in the future? Or does in only go one way?  :laugh:



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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3855650 - 03/02/05 02:27 AM (19 years, 22 days ago)

reincarnation seems pointless to me


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SHiZNO]
    #3856387 - 03/02/05 09:00 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

SHiZNO said:
reincarnation seems pointless to me




:eek:  Pointless?!?!  :eek:

It's an opportunity to enrich your soul!  To learn amazing things about humanity and the universe...  It's one more chance to learn a new language, a new culture, to fall in love again and make babies or adopt babies.  It's one more chance to learn how pointless it is to hate, to learn patience and tolerance and wisdom.

No one can do all these things in one lifetime, but our souls can vibrate at amazingly high levels.  Essentially, we will do all these things...just not in one short but sweet lifetime.  :grin:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3856409 - 03/02/05 09:07 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

people seem to be applying terms relative to our single life view context, such as learning or progerssing upon a spiritual journey, and some like accountants are considering that crimes get paid for and benefits can be reaped.

it is easy to see how these explanations collect to guide the perplexed.

what if the whole re-incarnation thing (between birth and death and rebirth physically) is utterly incomprehensible to us while wearing our meaty minds?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3857827 - 03/02/05 03:07 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

It is pointless.

Even if it were true, if you can't take your memories of this life with you to the next, then this life would mean nothing to you then, just as your past lives mean nothing to you now.

It's just a futile hope to continue ones life beyond the grave, taking the focus of the life you have now.

It's simply a refusal to accept the realities of life, the reality of change. Nothing is permanent. 'You' will die!


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3857858 - 03/02/05 03:11 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

i didn't have time to read all the responses (being at work and all), but yes. in one way or another we are re-born into a new form after death. even the afterlife would be a realm of reincarnation, the only way i know to escape it (reincarnation) is to stop existing all together.. Just my 2 cents.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3857882 - 03/02/05 03:17 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what if the whole re-incarnation thing (between birth and death and rebirth physically) is utterly incomprehensible to us while wearing our meaty minds?




Non-existence is totally incomprehensible to our meaty minds. Hence, the creation of life after death.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3857887 - 03/02/05 03:18 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

How does it follow that since you can't recall previous lives they are all meaningless? I can't make the leap. Is it because the sheer number of lives renders your single current life meaningless by comparison? Does a mother's love diminish for her second child? Her third?

Also how does a belief in reincarnation = removing the focus off this one?? I don't understand how you reached these conclusions.

'You' will die!

Yes, but futures 'You's may be born from the ashes of the old! (Just like nature renews itself every spring).


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3858016 - 03/02/05 03:40 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If you have no memory of your previous lives, what can it mean to you? It may as well not exist. They won't mean anything to you just as your current life will mean nothing to you in your next life.

Reincarnation is a corrupt concept used to control the masses. It justifies the postion of the rich, where they can say they earned their position from their previous lives. And keeps the poor in their place, making them believe things will be better in the next life, hence the removed focus of this life.

Any concept that promises something beyond the grave will take the focus of this life.

'You' are constantly changing, so the 'you' that dies will not be the 'you' that is born again.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3858115 - 03/02/05 04:01 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If you have no memory of your previous lives, what can it mean to you? It may as well not exist.

Yes, but you seemed to include current lives in that. How is my current live rendered meaningless? And they do mean something as the past lives provide the foundation for the current one. If they didn't exist I wouldn't exist, at least not as I am today. That means a lot!

And keeps the poor in their place, making them believe things will be better in the next life, hence the removed focus of this life.

Not at all. Unless a person continually makes spiritual advancements there is no guarantee he will have a better life next time. This is known as karma and goes hand-in-hand with the concept of reincarnation. Also mistreating the poor will result in bad karma in the next life, possibly even reincarnation birth into poverty.

You are making HUGE leaps..saying just because someone believes in reincarnation they also must believe such-and-such. That just IS NOT true and you haven't even attempted to show why you make such leaps.

Reincarnation is not corrupt, it is a beautiful belief that puts each individual in control of his own destiny. Of course, ANY belief can be used to control the masses! That does not mean the concept itself is flawed, just that people are flawed.

Any concept that promises something beyond the grave will take the focus of this life.

Another unfounded statement. One thing doesn't necessarily follow the other!

'You' are constantly changing, so the 'you' that dies will not be the 'you' that is born again.

Yep. Pretty cool huh?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3858393 - 03/02/05 04:47 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

I'm flying (incarnating) though Me's at an almost "uncomfortable" paste, in lack of other words.. :P

oh well, good night.. this being, influenced, serves better of in dreamland :wink:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? *DELETED* [Re: Gomp]
    #3858473 - 03/02/05 05:03 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858505 - 03/02/05 05:09 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Reincarnation is not a religion.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? *DELETED* [Re: zorbman]
    #3858529 - 03/02/05 05:13 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858567 - 03/02/05 05:18 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Nope.

re?li?gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n.

Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.

The life or condition of a person in a religious order.

A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.
---------------------------------------------------
Reincarnation is a component of many religions, but is not a religion in and of itself.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? *DELETED* [Re: zorbman]
    #3858645 - 03/02/05 05:32 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858801 - 03/02/05 05:57 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Okay okay. I admit it. I'm a high priest in the religion of Reincarnation.    :rolleyes:

Again, there is no such religion as reincarnation! It is one facet of several religions not the religion itself. And how do I use it as a crutch?? You don't know me or how I apply this belief in my life. That is extremely condescending. One can have a belief without using it as a crutch. Reincarnation is the polar opposite of a crutch because the only thing you have to rely on ultimately is how you treat others. You and ONLY YOU are responsible for your circumstances. How is that a crutch?

Just because I'm arguing for something does not make it a religion! If I try to get you to believe in existentialism does that make it a religion? Of course not, it's a philosophy. If I argue in favor of baking a cake does that make me the High Priest of the Cake religion?

Nice try, but reincarnation is neither a religion nor a crutch. I think you should examine why you are so determined to affix a negative label to it. Could it be that you don't want to be bothered to consider it honestly, you just want to place it on your mental shelf and forget about it so you can avoid thinking about it?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? *DELETED* [Re: zorbman]
    #3858844 - 03/02/05 06:00 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858868 - 03/02/05 06:03 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

puritybinge said:
reincarnation would suggest a spirit correct? i dont believe in spirit, or souls, and there is no evidence of such scientifically




Just because something cant be proved scientifically (yet) dosent mean it cant be true.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858887 - 03/02/05 06:07 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

I love how you gave all of three minutes max to considering what I had to say without even attempting to answer any of my questions. I tried to answer your questions and dealt with you respectfully. It's clear that discussing this issue with you further is pointless.

Anyone here want to tackle this subject in a serious way?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3858892 - 03/02/05 06:07 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

puritybinge said:
reincarnation would suggest a spirit correct? i dont believe in spirit, or souls, and there is no evidence of such scientifically




Just because something cant be proved scientifically (yet) dosent mean it cant be true.



True, but it can't be proven, so any belief in it is pure speculation.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? *DELETED* [Re: Silversoul]
    #3858976 - 03/02/05 06:23 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: wishcouldeletethis]
    #3858985 - 03/02/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

i just like arguing, plain and simple.

I can't take you seriously.

Next.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3859093 - 03/02/05 06:47 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)


Yes, but you seemed to include current lives in that. How is my current live rendered meaningless? And they do mean something as the past lives provide the foundation for the current one. If they didn't exist I wouldn't exist, at least not as I am today. That means a lot!

Your current life will be meaningless to you in your next life. Think of anything that isn't you; a tree, grass, a flower, a catholic in Rome, what would you mean to them? They have no memory of you, and so you would mean as much to them as you will mean to yourself in your supposed next life.

You accuse me of making big leaps when you make a huge one here yourself. How would you know your past lives have built the foundation for your current one if you can't prove you had past lives?

Not at all. Unless a person continually makes spiritual advancements there is no guarantee he will have a better life next time. This is known as karma and goes hand-in-hand with the concept of reincarnation. Also mistreating the poor will result in bad karma in the next life, possibly even reincarnation birth into poverty.

That is known as the degenerated version of karma, one used to take the focus of this life. 'Oh no, I mustn't do anything bad in this life or I'll end up in poverty the next'. Karma was never meant to mean that. All it means in sanskrit is 'Your Doing', and that's all it means. 'Your conditioning' is a more accurate interpretation of karma.

Another unfounded statement. One thing doesn't necessarily follow the other!

Go back and have a look at Clones response in this thread. If you can't finish everything in this life, don't worry, you'll finish it in the next. That's taking the focus of this life.

Yep. Pretty cool huh?

Saying 'you' in the next life will not be the same as 'you' this life just confirms its pointlessness. You may as well be dead as 'you' as you are now, aren't there anymore.

You can say that we are continually dying and being reborn but most people don't see themselves that way. We think 'I' am fixed and will go on and on into the next life. This illusion of a permanent self is caused by our memories. But what happens when we take those memories away (which will happen when our bodies physically die)? There isn't anything there to continue.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3859232 - 03/02/05 07:14 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Your current life will be meaningless to you in your next life. Think of anything that isn't you; a tree, grass, a flower, a catholic in Rome, what would you mean to them?

If I grew into another form then the future me would be a continuation of my current self and it would exist not in the present (like your examples) but in the future. What I call "me" is a continuation of who I was when I was a child who was very important since he set the stage for who I am today. My physical form has changed over the years of course, but I am still me.

That is known as the degenerated version of karma, one used to take the focus of this life. 'Oh no, I mustn't do anything bad in this life or I'll end up in poverty the next'. Karma was never meant to mean that. All it means in sanskrit is 'Your Doing', and that's all it means. 'Your conditioning' is a more accurate interpretation of karma.

There is nothing even slightly degenerate about it. And there is nothing to "use" it for. It is merely the Law of Cause and Effect. Fate in Sanskrit is called karma, meaning the rhythm of past actions.

Reincarnation in no way takes the focus off of this life as you continually state; To the contrary, it gives life added meaning by placing it into an eternal context where one's actions have deep repercussions forever. Focusing on ones current life and believing in reincarnation are not mutually exclusive. That just doesn't follow and repeating it over and over will not make it so.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3859498 - 03/02/05 07:58 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

If I grew into another form then the future me would be a continuation of my current self and it would exist not in the present (like your examples) but in the future.

It doesn't matter if they exist in the future or present. What matters is they do not have a memory of you, just as you will have no memory of yourself in the next life. Because of that, you mean nothing to them just as you will mean nothing to you in your next life.

My physical form has changed over the years of course, but I am still me.

You still believe in the idea of a permanent unchanging self/soul. You're not addressing what you will think of yourself without your memories.

It is merely the Law of Cause and Effect.

Karma is not the law of cause and effect. Alan Watts made it very clear. It simply means 'your doing'.

To the contrary, it gives life added meaning by placing it into an eternal context where one's actions have deep repercussions forever.

If you have to think about the repercussions of you actions outside this life (your next life etc), then you are taking the focus away from your current life. It's pretty simple really.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3859635 - 03/02/05 08:29 PM (19 years, 21 days ago)

you mean nothing to them just as you will mean nothing to you in your next life.

My past selves mean a great deal whether I remember them or not because their actions created me! If that isn't meaningful I don't know what is.

Karma is not the law of cause and effect.

It is indeed the Law of Cause and Effect as many great teachers througout history have pointed out. There are many resources available on the net to help you on this point.

If you have to think about the repercussions of you actions outside this life (your next life etc), then you are taking the focus away from your current life.

Not at all. Knowledge of reincarnation helps me greatly in my current life. I simply live my life as if everything I do will return to me eventually. This doesn't detract from the focus of my current life in the slightest. On the contrary, it shows me that I cannot escape the effects of my actions and allows me to focus more on what I'm doing in this life.

Contrast that with Christianity. You really are never held accountable because all your sins are unloaded onto Jesus. You can do whatever you want- you are forgiven and will get to Heaven no matter what. With reincarnation you can never escape the effects of your actions- not even after death! Earlier some ignorant person called that a "crutch". That's about as far from a crutch as I can imagine.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3860729 - 03/03/05 12:27 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

My past selves mean a great deal whether I remember them or not because their actions created me! If that isn't meaningful I don't know what is.

You assume their actions created you. A leap of faith.

So your past lives mean something to you because you believe in reincarnation. What about your next life when you're a tree or some catholic and you don't believe in reincarnation? Is your life now going to mean anything to you then?

Without a way to carry your memories onto the next life, without some permanent self to carry, reincarnation whether true or not means jack. You still have avoided this problem of memories, as with the concept of an impermanent self.

It is indeed the Law of Cause and Effect as many great teachers througout history have pointed out. There are many resources available on the net to help you on this point.

A direct quote from the Alan Watts lecture Intellectual Yoga (right on the 5 min mark). 'Karma means action, and incidently that's all it means. It does not mean the law of cause and effect. When we say something happens to you is your karma, all it's saying is it is your own doing.'

I have read other definitions that state it is the law of cause and effect but I prefer Watts. Of the other definitions I've read, many say the idea of actions in this life being punished or rewarded in the next life is not taken seriously and seen as a misinterpretation by the west.

On the contrary, it shows me that I cannot escape the effects of my actions and allows me to focus more on what I'm doing in this life.

That's fine if you believe your actions will come back to you in this life, but as soon as you believe your actions will effect you in the next life you've lost it.

With reincarnation you can never escape the effects of your actions- not even after death!

Once again a leap of faith.

And why bring up christianity? I think it's safe to assume anyone still reading this thread doesn't take christianity seriously.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3860945 - 03/03/05 01:10 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

Karma It does not mean the law of cause and effect.

That is false. Teachers throughout history agree. Alan Watts is clearly off track here (which is not unusual for him). Karma is simply the Law of Cause and Effect- every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This is exactly how karma operates. I can provide some links on karma if you'd like.

You still have avoided this problem of memories, as with the concept of an impermanent self.

How am I avoiding it? Reincarnation implies a permanent self that carries those memories. It's not a problem and I am not avoiding it in the slightest. I believe in that permanent self. I am that.

as soon as you believe your actions will effect you in the next life you've lost it.

Not at all. In fact I've gained a great deal. Knowledge of reincarnation and karma has helped me understand what lies behind the process of life and given me a greater appreciation for my life and that of others. Nothing negative has come out of it. When you gain perspective on things it clears up a great deal.

What about your next life when you're a tree

I don't think you have a real good understanding of what we're talking about here. Reincarnation has nothing to do with coming back as a bird or insect! One returns as a human being. What you're talking about is the belief in transmigration- that's related to an earlier, primitive doctrine and few now hold that view.

I have some resources on reincarnation if you would like to look through them to give you a better understanding of the subject.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3861031 - 03/03/05 01:36 AM (19 years, 21 days ago)

I know that's what other people say about karma. They could be right but I'm siding with Watts on this one.

And how many of them seriously believe what you do in this life affects what happens in the next? Do a search for it yourself. There's plenty of sites that say this is an error.

How am I avoiding it? Reincarnation implies a permanent self that carries those memories. It's not a problem and I am not avoiding it in the slightest. I believe in that permanent self. I am that.

Strange that you believe in a permanent self as the buddhists say the self doesn't even exist. Show me your self. What is this permanent thing that gets passed on? The famous koan "who are you?"

As I said before, it's because of our memories that we have this illusion of a permanent self. What happens when we take these memories away?

I don't think you have a real good understanding of what we're talking about here. Reincarnation has nothing to do with coming back as a bird or insect! One returns as a human being. What you're talking about is the belief in transmigration- that's related to an earlier, primitive doctrine and few now hold that view.

One doesn't always return as a human being. Being born a human is seen as a great thing as it is only in the human state that one can become a buddha.

Besides, it doesn't matter whether you come back as a tree or a human, the point is you don't have anything to remind you of this life and so this life will mean nothing to you in the next. And don't assume you'll believe in reincarnation in your next life. You could be catholic.

Don't need the links thanks. I've read enough about it to know how pointless it is.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3861294 - 03/03/05 05:00 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
what if the whole re-incarnation thing (between birth and death and rebirth physically) is utterly incomprehensible to us while wearing our meaty minds?




Non-existence is totally incomprehensible to our meaty minds. Hence, the creation of life after death.




existence as part of a greater being is acceptible though: break off, carnate, discarnate, resorb into the greater multidimensional being.
yet as a more complex dimensional element is involved, we cannot fathom why, how, and any moral values would be projections.

if we are only partly broken off to be carnate (and this is also likely) then we may still have access to inspirations that include memories of other lives ever lived, and, more than one child could be the reincarnated tulku...


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3861694 - 03/03/05 09:34 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
If you have to think about the repercussions of you actions outside this life (your next life etc), then you are taking the focus away from your current life.

Not at all. Knowledge of reincarnation helps me greatly in my current life. I simply live my life as if everything I do will return to me eventually. This doesn't detract from the focus of my current life in the slightest. On the contrary, it shows me that I cannot escape the effects of my actions and allows me to focus more on what I'm doing in this life.

Contrast that with Christianity. You really are never held accountable because all your sins are unloaded onto Jesus. You can do whatever you want- you are forgiven and will get to Heaven no matter what. With reincarnation you can never escape the effects of your actions- not even after death! Earlier some ignorant person called that a "crutch". That's about as far from a crutch as I can imagine.





:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


It is amazing to me that people will argue about an issue that can not be proved. I started this topic to see who believed in the theory of reincarnation. It is an ideology that can neither be proved nor disproved.(kinda like "human evolution") For one person to call another persons "belief" wrong is, in itself "wrong".


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3861697 - 03/03/05 09:34 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Of course you have things to remind you of your past lives. Has anyone ever heard of Cell Memory?

Here is a breif overview. Your soul remembers your past lives. Every second of every day. You don't because such time would be a terrible burden on your temporairaly human mind. When you die all will be returned to you. When you are born human, your soul makes itself comfortable in your body. As you grow up, and live and learn your soul is still remembering past lives.

Say in a past life, you were a soldier in WW1 and on your 21st birthday you died from a gunshot wound in your chest. In this life, your soul is likely to remember that cellular trauma and on your 21st birthday you could get an aching pain that you can't figure out in your chest. It might go away right away, or it might stick around.

I have read thousands of cases where people have been healed of unidentified traumas by being hypnotized to rememeber a past life. Remembering heals, and it's possible. You are capable of remembering. Children are especially capapble of remembering. They don't even need to be hypnotized, they just come out with it on occasion.

And coming back as a tree? That is rediculous. That is an ancient teaching of trans-migration and it's no longer followed. There is a life force that teaches us to move forwards towards soul evoloution.

I'm not entirely sure about how it works, but I beleive that animals can be reborn as new animals...cats to cats, horses to horses, etc. Insects, not so much. There is a big difference between an insect and an animal with more instincts. I will look that one up.

If an animal passes and he/she is evolved enough, I think several animal souls can make up a human soul. Kind of like chinese astrology, or indian doctrine. One advanced human soul can not only contain the wisdom of human emotion, but the loyalty of a good dog, the pride of an eagle and the stealthy ninjabilites of a cat.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CherryBom]
    #3861743 - 03/03/05 09:55 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

coming back as a tree or anything else may be just as possible as only being one person at any one time through history on any planet or in any single dimension.
or just as absurd as ever just being one being.

cellular memory?

among the things discussed, the cellular memory issue could be taken apart on biological terms, but it is as logical as any of the proposals reagarding this topic area which nobody can prove or disprove.

we make it up as we go along, like a bridge into a darkness we all share.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3861931 - 03/03/05 10:49 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I really think you should check out some information about reincarnation as you are gravely mistaken about many fundamental aspects of it..thinking one could come back as a bird or insect for example.

Discussing it with you further is pointless until you learn the basics of reincarnation.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3862052 - 03/03/05 11:19 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

but zorby, the basics are constructs.

this is one area of discussion that has to be most tolerant of variance.

some religious groups say you can
some say you can't
some parallel the essence of re-incarnation to soul or spirit or self and others accredit it to a pervasive creator (or matrix) which we calve off of, cleave unto, and return to - and that allows mixing subcalving and fractionating into insects and trees as well ...


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3862108 - 03/03/05 11:27 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

As Cherrybomb said, the idea that humans become insects or birds is another doctrine called transmigration. It is a primitive idea held by a tiny minority of those who hold reincarnation to be true.

When I'm having a political discussion with someone and they see me, for example, as a conservative but try to discredit conservatism by pointing out abortion clinic bombers I turn off. Attempting to define someone by the most radical elements in a movement is ignorant at best and intellectually dishonest at worst.

I'm here to have a serious discussion about this subject and people who are uninformed or have ill intent don't contribute to that.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3862135 - 03/03/05 11:35 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
some parallel the essence of re-incarnation to soul or spirit or self and others accredit it to a pervasive creator (or matrix) which we calve off of, cleave unto, and return to - and that allows mixing subcalving and fractionating into insects and trees as well ...





Being rebirthed as a tree or insect is not impossible.....just not likley.

If you believe in the evolution of the soul then the soul would have to have done some very bad things in their past life to warrant it being sent that far back.

If you believe in the idea that ALL things...mineral, and animal vibrate with a scertain frequency or density(go here for a better explanation of it) then you cant go from a 3rd density "spirit" (humans) back to a 2nd density "spirit" (plants and animals).


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3862159 - 03/03/05 11:42 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I am not sure we are qualified to judge the spiritual progress of a butterfly or of a rock only that each is equal to us somehow in the miracle of creation

those density issues are constructs - always fun to surmise about constructs.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3862206 - 03/03/05 11:55 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Nobody's going to answer my question? I want to know If I can send a message to one of my future selves via fed-ex to alter what I am now. (I'd assume I'd need someone that is a psychic, clairavoyant, large-medium, or something to that degree to determine who/what I'm mailing the message to, and when).


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"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3862240 - 03/03/05 12:04 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I think Outlook Express has a menu sequence for that


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3862273 - 03/03/05 12:11 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I want to know If I can send a message to one of my future selves via fed-ex to alter what I am now.

You would just get a 'Return to Sender'. Because you can already alter yourself by treating others with kindness and respect and being of service to your fellow human beings.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3862426 - 03/03/05 12:57 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
I want to know If I can send a message to one of my future selves via fed-ex to alter what I am now.

You would just get a 'Return to Sender'. Because you can already alter yourself by treating others with kindness and respect and being of service to your fellow human beings.




So reincarnation isn't one way then and solidified by our prior actions in their past lives. Thanks for clarifying that it goes "both ways" :lol:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3862479 - 03/03/05 01:09 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

My statement is commonly known as a "joke"  :wink:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3862551 - 03/03/05 01:28 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

zorbman said:
I want to know If I can send a message to one of my future selves via fed-ex to alter what I am now.

You would just get a 'Return to Sender'. Because you can already alter yourself by treating others with kindness and respect and being of service to your fellow human beings.




So reincarnation isn't one way then and solidified by our prior actions in their past lives. Thanks for clarifying that it goes "both ways" :lol:




and in past actions? you and me are already dead? :smile:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Gomp]
    #3862576 - 03/03/05 01:37 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Gomp said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Quote:

zorbman said:
I want to know If I can send a message to one of my future selves via fed-ex to alter what I am now.

You would just get a 'Return to Sender'. Because you can already alter yourself by treating others with kindness and respect and being of service to your fellow human beings.




So reincarnation isn't one way then and solidified by our prior actions in their past lives. Thanks for clarifying that it goes "both ways" :lol:




and in past actions? you and me are already dead? :smile:




Yup. Better explanation on par with evolution, as we grow to better higher forms in the future by the resulting dilemma of our future actions (higher form, greater power, greater abuse) we continually de-evolve in our past lives till we are nothing more the proto-plasm, and gelataneous creatures  :tongue:.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (03/03/05 04:12 PM)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3863827 - 03/03/05 05:11 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
I really think you should check out some information about reincarnation as you are gravely mistaken about many fundamental aspects of it..thinking one could come back as a bird or insect for example.

Discussing it with you further is pointless until you learn the basics of reincarnation.




I gave examples of coming back as humans as well and you ignore those and focus on my animal/plant examples and say how wrong they are.

I think you need to look deeper into eastern philosophy and find out just what exactly is being passed on. You're still dodging the issues of memory and a permanent self. Tell me what this self is. Who are you? Who are you without your memories or beliefs?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3863884 - 03/03/05 05:22 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Are people bound by their memories and beliefs? I most certainly don't choose to believe that is the case. People change, and alter themselves regardless of their previous belief systems all the time. If its basis is applicable to this life, how much would and purported former lifestyle actually be able to affect the current one? (Note: this is in regards to reincarnation, [preincarnation and it's premise are even more difficult to understand])

Dunno, I'm constantly evolving my beliefs to be better, not to stagnate on something that simply doesn't work. I see that a feeling of permanancy in any train of thought is either known to be perfect or flawless.. If it has flaws, then continue to look for something that is infallible.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3863913 - 03/03/05 05:29 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

People are bound by their memories and beliefs at the time. As time changes, memories and beliefs change, but one is still bound by them in the present moment.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3863931 - 03/03/05 05:34 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Indeed, but by the mere nature of change, (supposing that we all came to the belief that reincarnation is real)... by virtue of one's ability to change in their current existance, and their previous lifestyles not having a form of permanancy on their beliefs; Why would a past life's "memory" have any more relevance?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3864022 - 03/03/05 05:53 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

A past life's memory shoudn't have any more relevance or significance then one's own memories now. It's all bound to change anyway. I think it's sad if one has to look at their past life's memories to give meaning to their present life. Isn't their present life good enough?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3864097 - 03/03/05 06:02 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

:thumbup:

"Remeber the past, stay in the present, look towards the future"
-me

Also, the past shapes the present regardless of it's hold on you, so in a sense our past inherently is the primary determination of our future. Dunno, the present life is never good enough.... life should never be good enough, we should never settle for good enough, that is why so many people are in a slump. They settle on that which was forged, not necessarily to their own liking, rather then forging something that could be better.

If it works, don't fix it... on the same token, if it doesn't work well enough, then make it work better.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3864197 - 03/03/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Yes the past shapes the present so long as you remember the past.

Life can be good enough. At this particular moment my life is more then good enough. Will it be good enough in an hour? Who knows? Maybe in a week I'll be suicidal :smile:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3864200 - 03/03/05 06:25 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

:lol: aye, what makes life enjoyable.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3864467 - 03/03/05 07:08 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I'm using my friends comp, havent joined the site yet. I don't believe in reincarnation and but I do in the collective consciousness. Our bodies and minds are a bioligical biodegradable being. We can create the energy of sensory perception and collect it for analysis, but as far as extra-sensory perception is concerned: we don't create it and just to sense it we must expand our confined perceptions to encompass the limitless possibilities available. ie: psyachadelic drugs and/or meditation. To analyse and understand the information is even more complex. I Think that child prodigies are kids that have a heightened sense of the collective consciousness and are able to tap into the immense wealth of knowledge available, as well as being able to learn/ absorb the information easily. Some kids have one or the other: kids who are fast learners can pick things up quickly after only a little practise, kids sensitive to the collective consciousness can remember information that they never have learnt. It is no coincidence that in Tibet, where kids practise meditation, they are able to tap into the collective consciousness more easily and pick out the belongings of the previous Dali Lama for religious administrators during the test. With increasing population in the world, perhaps human being's capacity to relate to the collective consciousness is diminishing, and maybe that's what we can all sense. (the mass premonition thread) You could even go as far as to say that human being's self-destructive tendencies and desires to kill others are a method of population control and reducing the stress on the collective consciousness. Or you could go even farther to say that the planet Earth feels the stress of the collective consciousness uses natural disasters as a method of population control.


--------------------
"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: CeeThruMeer]
    #3864501 - 03/03/05 07:14 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Well I thought of that, in the past. Then I realized that if you're going to suggest something of that nature you ought to have a full understanding of what mankind is capable of doing. For instance, it is well in the realm of man to create Tsunamis if he so desired to, simple concept of formation, just create an explosion in a particular area under sea. Same thing goes for Earthquakes among other things, Nikola Tesla had created a device which bounced back, and strengthened sound waves, which further amplified them to the extent that they created an earthquake. No time for links, PM me if you want, off to spam.

Not suggesting that this is the reasoning for any of it by far, just offering another alternative thought.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3864517 - 03/03/05 07:17 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
A past life's memory shoudn't have any more relevance or significance then one's own memories now. It's all bound to change anyway.






Thats sorta like saying "Why learn about human history"


Your own personal (past) history (when you were born,went to school...) defines who you are today.


Knowing where we came from helps us understand why we are in the situation we are in today.


Spiritualy and physically.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3865131 - 03/03/05 09:12 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Your own personal (past) history (when you were born,went to school...) defines who you are today

Which is what I've been saying.

The point I was making was that a past life's memory (if you have a memory of your past life) shouldn't mean more then those memories of your present life? Never said a past life memory (if you have one), means nothing.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3865220 - 03/03/05 09:30 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
The point I was making was that a past life's memory (if you have a memory of your past life) shouldn't mean more then those memories of your present life? Never said a past life memory (if you have one), means nothing.





I don't think anyone said that either past or present "memories" has any sort of priority.

Just that both of them do exist.

Obviously the "lessons" of the current life are what we need to focus on in this life. Trying to realize what the lessons of this incarnation are may be easier if you believe in reincarnation.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3865518 - 03/03/05 10:37 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Well said, niteowl.

If anyone wants more information on how reincarnation works I have several excellant links and books to recommend. There is a lot of ignorance on the subject here so study up folks! It never hurts to learn about a different point of view especially a simple belief that explains so much like reincarnation.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3865695 - 03/03/05 11:18 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Reincarnated Discordianism? Now theirs a notion for you beyond preincarnation and reincarnation by themselves. Our present selves effect our future and past selves all at once, and those possibilities effect and further deter our present being.. by the nature of that system no grand change is made but the change we induce onto ourselves. As it should be. Getting late here if you couldn't tell... when the creative juices begin to flow, or is that just insanity?

One last note. If you are sane... and can go insane.... why not outsane? Where I'm headed.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3865749 - 03/03/05 11:33 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

If you ask a spiritual teacher who you were in your past incarnations he would reply, 'Who's asking the question?'

You've avoided this question twice before which shows you either skimped over my posts not reading them, or you simply can't answer it. I'm starting to think it's the latter.

You continually claim superior knowledge by offering links and calling people ignorant, yet won't answer this simple question which will show reincarnation for what it really is.

I guess there's no point arguing with someone so attached to their life extension program.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3865758 - 03/03/05 11:35 PM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Reincarnated Discordianism? Now theirs a notion for you beyond preincarnation and reincarnation by themselves. Our present selves effect our future and past selves all at once, and those possibilities effect and further deter our present being.. by the nature of that system no grand change is made but the change we induce onto ourselves. As it should be. Getting late here if you couldn't tell... when the creative juices begin to flow, or is that just insanity?

One last note. If you are sane... and can go insane.... why not outsane? Where I'm headed.




Fnord?


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3865859 - 03/04/05 12:17 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

I can't take you seriously. I've already answered your question while you have not even attempted to answer one of mine. You haven't demonstrated even the most basic understanding of reincarnation..saying silly things like its about people returning as birds and insects.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the time to run a class on Reincarnation 101. I've offered you some resources on the subject and you seem to lazy to check them out.

Discussing this with you is pointless and you will get no further feedback from me until you show you know what you're talking about.

I'm not holding my breath.


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Edited by zorbman (03/04/05 12:23 AM)

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3865865 - 03/04/05 12:19 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

"Outsane". Nice word.  :grin:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3865894 - 03/04/05 12:26 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Just the reply I expected.

You can't answer it which shows you lack an understanding of eastern philosophy. It is you who doesn't understand reincarnation.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3865930 - 03/04/05 12:38 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Knowing where we came from helps us understand why we are in the situation we are in today.

Exactly. I liken it to cosmic balance. Everything seeks to be in harmony. Most of our helpful human traits when taken to an extreme turn negative. For example, it's great to love your family (however you may define it) but if you love them to the exclusion of everyone else you've got a problem: racism, nationalism, etc. In that case you may find yourself being born as a minority to experience the negativity you created from the receiving end.

And once you've experienced that pain you are far less likely to repeat it in future lives. The specifics of the memory are gone, but that impression remains as instinct.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3866572 - 03/04/05 04:08 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
If you ask a spiritual teacher who you were in your past incarnations he would reply, 'Who's asking the question?'




Asking questions like "Who was I?/What did I do?" in a previous live is irrevelant. Only who you are NOW matters.


Quote:

ninjapixie said:
You've avoided this question twice before which shows you either skimped over my posts not reading them, or you simply can't answer it. I'm starting to think it's the latter.




Does that answer your question to your satisfaction.?


Quote:

ninjapixie said:
You continually claim superior knowledge.....




Not superior knowledge......just knowledge.



Quote:

ninjapixie said:
I guess there's no point arguing with someone so attached to their life extension program.





The only one trying to ARGUE any point is YOU.


All I did was ask the question "Do you believe in reincarnation?" I know that many people DO believe in the theory of reincarnation(it is a theory btw).

Arguing about it is pointless.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3866585 - 03/04/05 04:15 AM (19 years, 20 days ago)

the belief in reincarnation assumes the existance of a soul. and i don't believe such a thing exists. a soul would have to store your own specific memories and thoughts for it to actually be your own, otherwise it would be more like a shell, and without a brain to give you a sense of self, you would not be... well, anything. so if after our brains die and all the memories and egos are destroyed as the chemical reaction ceases, some soul leaves and finds another host, that new host would have its own brain and own sense of self and be seperate from you.

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3866655 - 03/04/05 05:01 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
the belief in reincarnation assumes the existance of a soul and i don't believe such a thing exists.




No one can prove nor disprove the existance of a "soul"....However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul".


Quote:

fearfect said:
......a soul would have to store your own specific memories and thoughts for it to actually be your own,



which IS true.


Quote:

fearfect said:
.....otherwise it would be more like a shell,





The body is the shell.

The brain is the "interface" that allows the "body/soul" connection to be perceived.


Have you ever heard the phrase..."In the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Ghost". Its a Christian terminology that represents the "Mind, Body and Spirit". All three exist with in each of US.

Father=Mind/brain

Son=Body/individualism

Holy Ghost=Spirit/soul


The spirit is the "eternal' part of the equation. That's the part that has to "evolve/learn" by experiencing new and challenging "bodies/life's".





Quote:

fearfect said:
...and without a brain to give you a sense of self, you would not be... well, anything.




Your sense of "self" is not necessarily the same as "individuality/personality". The sense of "self" that your referring to is your "soul". The personality faults that you have in this life are the challenges that the "soul" has to overcome in order to "evolve/learn".



Quote:

fearfect said:
....so if after our brains die and all the memories and egos are destroyed as the chemical reaction ceases





Memory hasn't been completely tied to chemical reactions........yet.





Quote:

fearfect said:
...some soul leaves and finds another host, that new host would have its own brain and own sense of self and be separate from you.





New brain and personality with flaws that the "self/soul" has to overcome.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3867141 - 03/04/05 09:42 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Dealing with spirituality and reincarnation certainly expands ones idea of self. You are born into this world with no explicit memory of your past self because, of course, your brain has only been recording since your birth. However, even with no memory of your previous selves you are still you.

There are certain mind states where you can access those memories as mind is non-physical and the brain is a bio computer. You can "download" some of those past life memories and replay them if you know how.

If you were suddenly struck with amnesia in this life you would still be you- the essence of you. Essence means "spirit" and that's what we've been talking about- it is spirit that does the incarnating. What is YOU is the process, the thread that links all those lives together.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3867238 - 03/04/05 10:29 AM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Reincarnated Discordianism? Now theirs a notion for you beyond preincarnation and reincarnation by themselves. Our present selves effect our future and past selves all at once, and those possibilities effect and further deter our present being.. by the nature of that system no grand change is made but the change we induce onto ourselves. As it should be. Getting late here if you couldn't tell... when the creative juices begin to flow, or is that just insanity?

One last note. If you are sane... and can go insane.... why not outsane? Where I'm headed.




Fnord?




Exactly!


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3868222 - 03/04/05 02:29 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Asking questions like "Who was I?/What did I do?" in a previous live is irrevelant. Only who you are NOW matters.

You missed the point. The spiritual teacher is asking who you are. The famous koan 'who are you?' What is it that is actually being passed on from generation to generation. Realise this and you'll see how pointless reincarnation is.

The only one trying to ARGUE any point is YOU.

And people have been arguing over this in this thread. People are stating their points of view and the reasons for them. And offering links to sites and calling people ignorant is claiming superior knowledge.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3868241 - 03/04/05 02:33 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul".

If you look more deeply into buddhism or eastern philosopy (which is what reincarnation is based on), you'll realise that is not the case.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3870115 - 03/04/05 08:43 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

"No one can prove nor disprove the existance of a "soul"....However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul"."

+

"......a soul would have to store your own specific memories and thoughts for it to actually be your own,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"which IS true."




I don't follow. You cannot prove what a soul is or even if it exists (by your own words), yet you can claim that it IS true that souls store memories?

When people get alzheimers disease, they lose their memory. their brains are damaged and render them unable to even recognize loved family members who they have known for years most of the time. This leads me to believe that our memories are stored in our brains; in something physical since this disease is physical as well.

also how can you explain the expansion of the population of humans. Thousands of years ago there was a fraction of the amount of people and animals that are present now. Is there just some soul bank where souls float around until needed? When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?

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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3870139 - 03/04/05 08:49 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?

Frogs and jellybeans.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3870926 - 03/04/05 11:11 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Of course their specific memories are lost. If your hard drive crashes and you lose that wonderful story you wrote have you lost the specifics of the story? Yes, of course. But the general essence, the theme remains in your head. Because the hard drive was only a physical medium for storage. And where did that story come from? Science has never proven that the source of consciousness is in the brain, my friend. And it never will.

Amnesia victims, for example, lose their specific memories but their essential character survives. An angry person does not suddenly become a loving person and vice versa. The essence remains. Interesting word, "essence":

es?sence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns) noun.

1) The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something.
2) The most important ingredient; the crucial element.
3) The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things.
4) An extract that has the fundamental properties of a substance in concentrated form.
5) One that has or shows an abundance of a quality as if highly concentrated: a neighbor who is the essence of hospitality.
6) Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.

Who are you really? Your name, your job, your home, your family, even your memories, all of these things can be stripped away and yet you are still you! Your character and the events that shaped it don't just dissapear because the memories associated with them did. That's why the possessive pronoun "your" is always found in front of all those things. They are your possessions, not your very self! "Your" body..hmm..

Like a guttering candle lighting a fresh one.. we pass from body to body without being extinguished. The universe is incredibly efficient. No one is ever lost or forgotten. Only the form changes. The spirit remains. Always. Know that.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
    #3871005 - 03/04/05 11:27 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

" Life is but a stone in a sling, live it as your last and you will finally be cast into the uni-verse "


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SamoFilling]
    #3871018 - 03/04/05 11:29 PM (19 years, 19 days ago)

Sweet!  :mushroom2: :sun: :heart:


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3872745 - 03/05/05 12:04 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

fearfect said:
When people get alzheimers disease, they lose their memory. their brains are damaged and render them unable to even recognize loved family members who they have known for years most of the time.




The "soul" can only inlfuence "us" thru the brain. The soul experiences our life excperience thru the brain. If some disease or injury occurs, the brain can loose its ability to "hear" what the soul has to offer.

+

The brain has the capasity to only store what it has experienced. If its damaged ..... its damaged... not the soul.


Quote:

fearfect said:
also how can you explain the expansion of the population of humans. Thousands of years ago there was a fraction of the amount of people and animals that are present now. Is there just some soul bank where souls float around until needed? When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?




Our soul comes from the "GreatSpirit" or "Mother Earth" We will continue to prosper as long as we dont destroy the "Mother Earth".

If we can learn to live in harmony with our environment their is no limit to how many "souls" the "GreatSpirit" can produce.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
    #3872774 - 03/05/05 12:12 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

ninjapixie said:
Asking questions like "Who was I?/What did I do?" in a previous live is irrevelant. Only who you are NOW matters.

You missed the point. The spiritual teacher is asking who you are. The famous koan 'who are you?' What is it that is actually being passed on from generation to generation. Realise this and you'll see how pointless reincarnation is.





If you focus on living your life in harmony.

Learn the lessons you need to learn in "this life".

Then reincarnation is pointless, because you accomplished your "mission" in this life.

You would have passed the need for a "physical" form.

You would have become a "perfect soul". And when you die you will go to "Nirvana/Heaven/Valhalla(sp?)" not back in to another "body"


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
    #3872857 - 03/05/05 12:33 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?

We are all a part of God and we all come from God. God is infinite. An example from the Bible would be Jesus dividing the fishes and loaves to feed as many people as needed. God has no lack for anything.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
    #3874000 - 03/05/05 06:17 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
In MY view of reincarnation, if you die before learning the lesson this life has to give you have to start over. Yes I'm talking about a "do over" you start the whole life experience over again. Same parents same EVERYTHING until you get it right.




I accept the fact that I do not know what is going to "happen" and also believe in some higher power, but what you are saying here doesn't make much sense. How can you live the same life over again? What about all the poeple in your life that you encounter, or me sitting here at my computer. Say you're living your 7th live so far, all of them identical. Then lets say during your 6th life I or anyone else "achieved" what they needed to and did not need to live another life.. If that were true then how would I or anyone else whose "achieved" their purpose still exist in your next life? If what you are saying is true, then nobody except yourself would have a soul, but would be programmed to live in your life, and I definitely have a soul. I don't know if that will make sense to everyone, but it makes perfect sense to me.


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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Anjaba]
    #3874471 - 03/05/05 07:48 PM (19 years, 18 days ago)

Quote:

Anjaba said:
I accept the fact that I do not know what is going to "happen" and also believe in some higher power, but what you are saying here doesn't make much sense.  How can you live the same life over again?  What about all the poeple in your life that you encounter, or me sitting here at my computer.  Say you're living your 7th live so far, all of them identical.





Again this is still a working "theory".....(the evolution of a theory)


Either I have been thru this life B4......or I have a better recollection of the challenges of this life. I can almost "feel" tension in the air months before anything stressfull actualy happens.


Those are the only two explanations I can come up with for these feelings.

:shrug:


Not saying Im right......just a theory.


:peace: :peace: :peace:


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