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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3866655 - 03/04/05 05:01 AM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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fearfect said: the belief in reincarnation assumes the existance of a soul and i don't believe such a thing exists.
No one can prove nor disprove the existance of a "soul"....However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul".
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fearfect said: ......a soul would have to store your own specific memories and thoughts for it to actually be your own,
which IS true.
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fearfect said: .....otherwise it would be more like a shell,
The body is the shell.
The brain is the "interface" that allows the "body/soul" connection to be perceived.
Have you ever heard the phrase..."In the name of the Father The Son and the Holy Ghost". Its a Christian terminology that represents the "Mind, Body and Spirit". All three exist with in each of US.
Father=Mind/brain
Son=Body/individualism
Holy Ghost=Spirit/soul
The spirit is the "eternal' part of the equation. That's the part that has to "evolve/learn" by experiencing new and challenging "bodies/life's".
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fearfect said: ...and without a brain to give you a sense of self, you would not be... well, anything.
Your sense of "self" is not necessarily the same as "individuality/personality". The sense of "self" that your referring to is your "soul". The personality faults that you have in this life are the challenges that the "soul" has to overcome in order to "evolve/learn".
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fearfect said: ....so if after our brains die and all the memories and egos are destroyed as the chemical reaction ceases
Memory hasn't been completely tied to chemical reactions........yet.
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fearfect said: ...some soul leaves and finds another host, that new host would have its own brain and own sense of self and be separate from you.
New brain and personality with flaws that the "self/soul" has to overcome.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3867141 - 03/04/05 09:42 AM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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Dealing with spirituality and reincarnation certainly expands ones idea of self. You are born into this world with no explicit memory of your past self because, of course, your brain has only been recording since your birth. However, even with no memory of your previous selves you are still you.
There are certain mind states where you can access those memories as mind is non-physical and the brain is a bio computer. You can "download" some of those past life memories and replay them if you know how.
If you were suddenly struck with amnesia in this life you would still be you- the essence of you. Essence means "spirit" and that's what we've been talking about- it is spirit that does the incarnating. What is YOU is the process, the thread that links all those lives together.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
#3867238 - 03/04/05 10:29 AM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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ninjapixie said:
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Psychoactive1984 said: Reincarnated Discordianism? Now theirs a notion for you beyond preincarnation and reincarnation by themselves. Our present selves effect our future and past selves all at once, and those possibilities effect and further deter our present being.. by the nature of that system no grand change is made but the change we induce onto ourselves. As it should be. Getting late here if you couldn't tell... when the creative juices begin to flow, or is that just insanity?
One last note. If you are sane... and can go insane.... why not outsane? Where I'm headed.
Fnord?
Exactly!
-------------------- "Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi "We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin "Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers." -It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall. -Substance over Style. -Common sense is uncommon.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
#3868222 - 03/04/05 02:29 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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Asking questions like "Who was I?/What did I do?" in a previous live is irrevelant. Only who you are NOW matters.
You missed the point. The spiritual teacher is asking who you are. The famous koan 'who are you?' What is it that is actually being passed on from generation to generation. Realise this and you'll see how pointless reincarnation is.
The only one trying to ARGUE any point is YOU.
And people have been arguing over this in this thread. People are stating their points of view and the reasons for them. And offering links to sites and calling people ignorant is claiming superior knowledge.
-------------------- Put that monkey back in the oven.
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
#3868241 - 03/04/05 02:33 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul".
If you look more deeply into buddhism or eastern philosopy (which is what reincarnation is based on), you'll realise that is not the case.
-------------------- Put that monkey back in the oven.
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
#3870115 - 03/04/05 08:43 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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"No one can prove nor disprove the existance of a "soul"....However the VAST majority of the human race does believe in a "soul"."
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"......a soul would have to store your own specific memories and thoughts for it to actually be your own,
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"which IS true."
I don't follow. You cannot prove what a soul is or even if it exists (by your own words), yet you can claim that it IS true that souls store memories?
When people get alzheimers disease, they lose their memory. their brains are damaged and render them unable to even recognize loved family members who they have known for years most of the time. This leads me to believe that our memories are stored in our brains; in something physical since this disease is physical as well.
also how can you explain the expansion of the population of humans. Thousands of years ago there was a fraction of the amount of people and animals that are present now. Is there just some soul bank where souls float around until needed? When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?
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ninjapixie
newbie
Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 417
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3870139 - 03/04/05 08:49 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?
Frogs and jellybeans.
-------------------- Put that monkey back in the oven.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3870926 - 03/04/05 11:11 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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Of course their specific memories are lost. If your hard drive crashes and you lose that wonderful story you wrote have you lost the specifics of the story? Yes, of course. But the general essence, the theme remains in your head. Because the hard drive was only a physical medium for storage. And where did that story come from? Science has never proven that the source of consciousness is in the brain, my friend. And it never will.
Amnesia victims, for example, lose their specific memories but their essential character survives. An angry person does not suddenly become a loving person and vice versa. The essence remains. Interesting word, "essence":
es?sence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns) noun.
1) The intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something. 2) The most important ingredient; the crucial element. 3) The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. 4) An extract that has the fundamental properties of a substance in concentrated form. 5) One that has or shows an abundance of a quality as if highly concentrated: a neighbor who is the essence of hospitality. 6) Something that exists, especially a spiritual or incorporeal entity.
Who are you really? Your name, your job, your home, your family, even your memories, all of these things can be stripped away and yet you are still you! Your character and the events that shaped it don't just dissapear because the memories associated with them did. That's why the possessive pronoun "your" is always found in front of all those things. They are your possessions, not your very self! "Your" body..hmm..
Like a guttering candle lighting a fresh one.. we pass from body to body without being extinguished. The universe is incredibly efficient. No one is ever lost or forgotten. Only the form changes. The spirit remains. Always. Know that.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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SamoFilling
Little Elf Dude
Registered: 02/21/04
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: zorbman]
#3871005 - 03/04/05 11:27 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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" Life is but a stone in a sling, live it as your last and you will finally be cast into the uni-verse "
-------------------- I Found The Gift. Its not Much But Its alot for me.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: SamoFilling]
#3871018 - 03/04/05 11:29 PM (19 years, 19 days ago) |
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-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc:
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3872745 - 03/05/05 12:04 PM (19 years, 18 days ago) |
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fearfect said: When people get alzheimers disease, they lose their memory. their brains are damaged and render them unable to even recognize loved family members who they have known for years most of the time.
The "soul" can only inlfuence "us" thru the brain. The soul experiences our life excperience thru the brain. If some disease or injury occurs, the brain can loose its ability to "hear" what the soul has to offer.
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The brain has the capasity to only store what it has experienced. If its damaged ..... its damaged... not the soul.
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fearfect said: also how can you explain the expansion of the population of humans. Thousands of years ago there was a fraction of the amount of people and animals that are present now. Is there just some soul bank where souls float around until needed? When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?
Our soul comes from the "GreatSpirit" or "Mother Earth" We will continue to prosper as long as we dont destroy the "Mother Earth".
If we can learn to live in harmony with our environment their is no limit to how many "souls" the "GreatSpirit" can produce.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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niteowl
GrandPaw
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Posts: 16,291
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: ninjapixie]
#3872774 - 03/05/05 12:12 PM (19 years, 18 days ago) |
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ninjapixie said: Asking questions like "Who was I?/What did I do?" in a previous live is irrevelant. Only who you are NOW matters.
You missed the point. The spiritual teacher is asking who you are. The famous koan 'who are you?' What is it that is actually being passed on from generation to generation. Realise this and you'll see how pointless reincarnation is.
If you focus on living your life in harmony.
Learn the lessons you need to learn in "this life".
Then reincarnation is pointless, because you accomplished your "mission" in this life.
You would have passed the need for a "physical" form.
You would have become a "perfect soul". And when you die you will go to "Nirvana/Heaven/Valhalla(sp?)" not back in to another "body"
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: fearfect]
#3872857 - 03/05/05 12:33 PM (19 years, 18 days ago) |
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When more and more people begin to populate the earth, where are you supposed to get the new souls to inhabit them?
We are all a part of God and we all come from God. God is infinite. An example from the Bible would be Jesus dividing the fishes and loaves to feed as many people as needed. God has no lack for anything.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Anjaba
Yet to trip....
Registered: 01/12/05
Posts: 466
Loc: Tampa
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: niteowl]
#3874000 - 03/05/05 06:17 PM (19 years, 18 days ago) |
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niteowl said: In MY view of reincarnation, if you die before learning the lesson this life has to give you have to start over. Yes I'm talking about a "do over" you start the whole life experience over again. Same parents same EVERYTHING until you get it right.
I accept the fact that I do not know what is going to "happen" and also believe in some higher power, but what you are saying here doesn't make much sense. How can you live the same life over again? What about all the poeple in your life that you encounter, or me sitting here at my computer. Say you're living your 7th live so far, all of them identical. Then lets say during your 6th life I or anyone else "achieved" what they needed to and did not need to live another life.. If that were true then how would I or anyone else whose "achieved" their purpose still exist in your next life? If what you are saying is true, then nobody except yourself would have a soul, but would be programmed to live in your life, and I definitely have a soul. I don't know if that will make sense to everyone, but it makes perfect sense to me.
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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Re: Reincarnation...do you believe in it? [Re: Anjaba]
#3874471 - 03/05/05 07:48 PM (19 years, 18 days ago) |
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Anjaba said: I accept the fact that I do not know what is going to "happen" and also believe in some higher power, but what you are saying here doesn't make much sense. How can you live the same life over again? What about all the poeple in your life that you encounter, or me sitting here at my computer. Say you're living your 7th live so far, all of them identical.
Again this is still a working "theory".....(the evolution of a theory)
Either I have been thru this life B4......or I have a better recollection of the challenges of this life. I can almost "feel" tension in the air months before anything stressfull actualy happens.
Those are the only two explanations I can come up with for these feelings.
Not saying Im right......just a theory.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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