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InvisibleSinbad
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Assumptions in the Mind
    #3822070 - 02/23/05 02:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Assumptions are similar to expectations. Due to our expectations we assume certain things. We assume meditation is going to produce certain effects. We assume we are capable or incapable or certain things. However, assumptions blind the mind. They make us incapable of seeing what is there, They are the basis from which we misinterpret experience and external data. For example, if we walk into a room of strangers and somebody frowns at us, we'll immediately think, 'That person doesn't like me.'We've made our assumption. What we didn't know was that at that moment we walked into the room that person had a really bad stomach ache and was frowning because of the pain. However, until something happens to dispel that assumption in our mind, we believe we 'know' that person doesn't like us. We are doing this constantly in our lives. It is a fundamental aspect of the way our minds are working in relation to the world and people around us.

When we meditate we inevitably make assumptions about what we should be able to do. One assumption we may make is that we should be able 'to clear the mind' because this is a dreadful phrase we have read in books. We also assume that we are going to be able to get rid of our thoughts and negative mind states because we have also read this in books. So we believe that when we sit down to meditate, we should somehow be able to click the mind into a different realm. If that doesn't happen, we feel that something has gone wrong. You wont believe the number of times Ive said to groups of people, 'When you meditate you cannot get rid of emotions,' and within ten minutes of the first exercise somebody will say 'When i started meditating, i couldn't get rid of these thoughts that kept coming back to me.'

When we are locked into our assumptions we do not hear or see. Information bounces off and goes into cyberspace and never comes back! it cannot penetrate our assumptions. We have to find out about our assumptions because they cause us to become completely deaf and blind.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/23/05 02:52 PM)


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Offlinethe_phoenix
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3822393 - 02/23/05 03:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Everyday I assume that reality will still be there to greet me when I wake up, for I have no definitive proof that it will. What we believe to be true (and assumptions are a type of belief) is true, to an extent that can be measured through experience, and the act of experience can in turn increase the extent. It is a fact that the world will continue existing tomorrow, barring a stray asteroid or some other disaster, as a result of our combined assumptions that it will.

We can make false assumptions, at the heart of which lies misunderstanding. But if we know all from foundation up, from core out, until where we are, then our further assumptions are necessarily true. Those that arise internally, for we can fully know the internal (in which case we realize the external is inside, not outside), can be true given a strong will, clear intent, etc. True assumptions? Indeed, language fails to describe the essence of magick, the notion that what we believe to be true is so.

And, I agree with the original post. :thumbup:


Edited by the_phoenix (02/23/05 03:22 PM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: the_phoenix]
    #3822514 - 02/23/05 03:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Every night when i go to sleep i am open to the possibility that i may not wake up. This helps me with lucid dreaming, becuase i take the presence of death with me when i fall to sleep, making me accutlely but lucidly aware of each passing moment.

Your world may not in fact exist when you wake up, becuase you may not wake up at all, its certainly a possibility, but to assume that you 'will' wake up is an assumption which blinds you to the possibility that you may not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3822577 - 02/23/05 03:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

attitude = expression and filter
the expression presses into the world
the filter allows some of what is expected back.
no match on the filter relys on assuption or basic reactions
then the next attitude mask is put forth.


each attitude mask is a full compliment of citta
or citta sequence.

i.e.
present the routine (attitude mask)
filter what comes back (filtering attitude goes with the mask)
chose next routine bassed on the results of filter (a list of responses goes with the mask).

if nothing came through the filter
chose next routine bassed on assumptions (a shorter conditional list).

this is the program of personality (50 to 500 masks)
even a monkey has it (fewer masks)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3823220 - 02/23/05 06:16 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

We have to find out about our assumptions because they cause us to become completely deaf and blind.

I agree with this assumption. the tricky thing about our assumptions is, they are generally invisible to us. they lie almost totally inside our blind spot(s). maybe parts of them stick out and that's the part you need to grab onto


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823269 - 02/23/05 06:24 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"Assume, be, and/or expect."
-unknown :P


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3823284 - 02/23/05 06:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Assumptions in the Mind

I have some assumptions in my knees as well


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823385 - 02/23/05 06:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"We have to find out about our assumptions because they cause us to become completely deaf and blind."

This is'nt an assumption, its a metaphorical fact!  :grin:

If you have assumptions in you knees, then get on them and bow to my feet, then your assumptions will be purified my son  :tongue2: :sun:

And while your down there.........  :rolleyes: :grin: :rotfl:


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Edited by Sinbad (02/23/05 07:01 PM)


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3823446 - 02/23/05 07:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This is'nt an assumption, its a metaphorical fact!

so some things we think are true are assumptions, and some things we think are true are facts? How do we tell which is which? I guess we'd have to go to your teacher?


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823463 - 02/23/05 07:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you observe your mind, you will soon discover the difference between an assumption and a fact based on your own experience.

First the teacher was my Guru
Then the teacher was my Circumstances
Then the teacher was my Mind

You can bypass the first two, and go straight to the source if you wish. Observe your teacher well, and you may discover how you really are.  :sun:


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Edited by Sinbad (02/23/05 07:14 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind [Re: Sinbad]
    #3823782 - 02/23/05 08:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

some things that we know are true are assumptions to sinbad
and some assumptions he makes are superceded in the next thread
one must be content to let all last words be shared in one way only.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Assumptions in the Mind are NOT Necessarily "Not Good"..... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3824325 - 02/23/05 10:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Sinbad, I have but 3 questions for you....    :grin:

3) Would it be "safe" for me to "assume" that you are indeed using a computer....?

2) Would it be "safe" for me to "assume" that you are indeed are connected to the internet...?

1) Would it be "safe" for me to "assume" that you are indeed making a thread (like this one) for others to read...?


?) I ASSUME that my teacher is teaching me "well"....  :wink:


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlineslaphappy Happy Birthday
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Assumptions [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3824867 - 02/23/05 11:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Assumptions is reality.

If you don't assume anything, nothing exists.

Thats the difference between an assumtion and a fact, assumptions exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without assuming that facts exist.

Assuming is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you assume that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing your assumptions by assuming that doing this or that will change them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (assumptions) by doing nothing.

I think thats pretty fucking grand.


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The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Assumptions in the Mind are NOT Necessarily "Not Good"..... [Re: slaphappy]
    #3824898 - 02/23/05 11:54 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well put....    :thumbup:

EVERYTHING  *seems* to be "fucking grand"....!  :wink:


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I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind are NOT Necessarily "Not Good"..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3825211 - 02/24/05 12:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

meditation = lazyness

:wink:

just kidding, it's beneficial.

it seems to be anyways.


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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions in the Mind are NOT Necessarily "Not Good"..... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3826091 - 02/24/05 04:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

A fact is something that you have discovered to be true, an assumption whether assumed to be safe or not, hasnt been proven to be correct or incorrect, i was pointing out that assumptions are not based on fact, therfore they are unreliable and blind you to the truth.

Without assumption we see things as they are and discover what is true and what is not based on fact. You can assume all you like, sometimes you maybe correct, other times you may not be, but with an assumption until th fact is proven, you will be blinded to the truth of the situation.

If im going to cross a road, and i assume there are no cars and cross, i may indeed get knocked over, then only when i am dead, injured, or on the other side will i discover truth of the situation. My assumption may have been correct, or i may have made a fatal error. However if i discover before i cross whether there are any cars comming, then i will be in possession of the knowlege and the truth of the situation, making it much safer to cross the road.

If you assume, how do you know? You dont, you are blind!

Observe your teacher well, before you do anything!


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions [Re: slaphappy]
    #3826099 - 02/24/05 04:45 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Assumptions lead to expectations which more often than not lead to disapointment. Did you not read me post? I can tell you now that if you 'assume' that you will be able to clear your mind of thoughts you 'Will not' be able to do it, and you will cause yourself much disapointment by blinding yourself that way.

Meditation is not simply 'doing nothing' you misunderstand. It is a method for removing obstacles to the natural state. Of course when you fully relax and observe your mind, you may discover that there is essentially 'nothing' to do, but assuming that there is 'nothing to do' is a big mistake, and an obstacle in itself.

Mediatating is not a way of changing relaity. Did you read my post at all?. It descirbes exactly how assumptions blind the mind.



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Edited by Sinbad (02/24/05 05:40 AM)


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Assumptions [Re: slaphappy]
    #3826296 - 02/24/05 07:59 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

slaphappy said:
Assumptions is reality.

If you don't assume anything, nothing exists.

That's the difference between an assumption and a fact, assumptions exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without assuming that facts exist.

Assuming is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you assume that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing your assumptions by assuming that doing this or that will change them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (assumptions) by doing nothing.

I think that's pretty fucking grand.





intentions < ... > assumptions


:sun:


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3826298 - 02/24/05 08:02 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

intentions is reality.

If you don't intend anything, nothing exists.

That's the difference between an intention and a fact, intentions exist, and make things exist.

Facts would not exist, without intending that facts exist.

intending is a great tool. Everything is a great tool. You are a great tool, and so am I.

If you intending that if you meditate you will clear your mind and become happy - that *will* work. Its just a way of changing your intentions by intending that doing this or that will change them.

Coincidentally, meditating is doing nothing, or close to it.

Meditating is aspiring to do nothing, and less.

Meditating is a way of changing reality (intentions) by doing nothing.

I think that's pretty fucking grand.  :sun:


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Edited by Gomp (02/24/05 08:03 AM)


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Assumptions [Re: Gomp]
    #3826349 - 02/24/05 08:44 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think you maybe confused. Intentions most certainly aren't reality. If you have no intentions then you would commit no actions within your reality, this doesn't mean that reality would cease to exist for you, unless you died of dehydration because you never had the intention to drink any water. :grin:

To act, you have to first intend to act. The facts exist regardless of ones intentions, for example the fact that the human body requires water isn't dependent on your intention to drink it. You may instictivley want to drink, but in order to act their must be an intention to do so.

Do you understand?

If your intention is to clear your mind, that is one thing (although in my experience this never functions), but expecting or assuming that this is going to happen, will most certainly have the opposite effect and create an obstacle. In short their should be no goal in meditation, you should just relax and observe your mind.

Changing ones intentions from selfish to selfless is good as a prerequisite to meditation, but to say that this changes reality itself is incorrect, maybe your perspective on reality will change, but the basic nature of reality itself is never affected.

Be careful, aspiring to do nothing, sounds alot like laziness. Do not be confused, mediation is there to wake us up to what is going in our minds, not to dull us into a state of nothingness.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/24/05 08:55 AM)


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