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OfflineZekebomb
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the infinite wheel revisited
    #3821868 - 02/23/05 01:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

okay, picture a universe which consists only of a human-sized observer and an infinitely humungous rotating wheel. there's nothing else. oh, I guess there's some 'empty' space between them, and just around, and between the spokes etc.

funny how the observer's POV makes it seem as if it's the wheel moving, but from the wheel's perspective it would look like the observer were the one moving. Perhaps to an observer outside the system (God, let's say) it would look more like a stationary infinite wheel with a tiny (infinitely tiny, in fact) observer orbiting the wheel's centre. As the observer moves out, it orbits faster; as moves in, orbits slower.

hmm, on second thought... maybe it's wrong to say that God sits outside the universe looking in. Better, maybe, to say that He is inside everything---His POV is everywhere. He observes from absolutely every point. To Him, neither the wheel nor the observer would be moving, or both would. (can a whole universe be rotating?) (if this universe is rotating, I am its axis...)

Oooor, lacking God's omni-perspective, perhaps consciousness itself (the observer) provides a frame-of-reference, which acts as a sort of anchor. so even an infinitesimal speck of consciousness anchors the universe in which the wheel is forced to spin. Or, maybe the bigness of the wheel is anchor enough.

or maybe this whole question is totally bogus.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3822991 - 02/23/05 05:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps it is, but you do have a good idea driving you.

This sort of has to do with the theory of relativity. Perception and coordination always depends on the POV of the observer. "I'm not tall, you're short", "I'm not short, you're tall". Neither is true. the only truth is that there is a certain relationship between two variables.


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Offlinedr0mni
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: dr0mni]
    #3822993 - 02/23/05 05:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This can be discussed indefinitely...


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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: dr0mni]
    #3823201 - 02/23/05 06:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"I'm not tall, you're short", "I'm not short, you're tall".

but what about "I'm not rotating, you're rotating"?

let's say the universe consisted of two dudes hanging out in front of a convenience store. one's taller than the other. there's really no argument, I mean sure they could run through the whole ]"I'm not tall, you're short", "I'm not short, you're tall" thing over and over, but if they just side-stepped that, they'd arrive at "I'm taller than you", "I'm shorter than you" and both be able to agree.

but in the universe of one teensy observer and one infinite wheel, it's a bit different, a bit trickier to get both to agree. you have to be God. and the thing is, when you do thought experiments like this, in a way You are God, in that your POV can zoom around where ever you want it to, you can slow down or speed up time, you can even reverse time, you can pause everything, you can introduce new variables out of nothing whenever you want, you can have a black hole swallow everything up at the end and start fresh, etc.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823884 - 02/23/05 08:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

There are actually four.

Shortie says: I'm not short, but you are taller than me. I'm tall, and you are just not as short than I.
Mr. Tall says: I'm not tall, you just happen to be shorter than me. I'm short, you are just not taller than me.


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3823917 - 02/23/05 08:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

funny how the observer's POV makes it seem as if it's the wheel moving, but from the wheel's perspective it would look like the observer were the one moving. Perhaps to an observer outside the system (God, let's say) it would look more like a stationary infinite wheel with a tiny (infinitely tiny, in fact) observer orbiting the wheel's centre. As the observer moves out, it orbits faster; as moves in, orbits slower.

.. and if the observer were at the absolute centre? He would appear stationary from every part of the wheel.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: the infinite wheel revisited [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3824089 - 02/23/05 09:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

>and if the observer were at the absolute centre? He would appear stationary from every part of the wheel.
-So, from the perspective of spoke #1 the person is facing away. I would expect that if the wheel turned 180 degrees and the person at the center stayed still, then the perspective from spoke #1 would be of the person facing towards the spoke. But you say this isn't true, the person would still be facing away.


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