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InvisibleMOTH
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Pushing your own limits with high doses
    #3821492 - 02/23/05 11:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well, in 3 months it will be a year since I took my life-shattering 5 gram trip.  It's hard to believe how much has happened since then.  I've pretty much made a complete recovery from that terrifying and illuminating trip, and have even grown as a person. 

However, I'm going to try and get to that "place" again in May.  Part of me can't believe I'm going to do this again...but I can't explain it, I have to.  I have to go back there, and I have to submit.  I think I'll be much more prepared this time around.  No distractions.  I'm going to dose 5-5.5 and just remember to breathe. 

Anyway, do other people here feel driven to explore their own limits as a human with higher doses?  I take smaller doses often and find them rewarding.  But there is always a desire to test my own boundaries as an individual with psychedelics.  I don't know...maybe it's the adventurer in me.  :smile:

I don't know what I want out of this post, but feel welcome to share your thoughts.  :heart:


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3821676 - 02/23/05 12:31 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Terrence Mckenna calls them the Heroic Doses. I dont have many tripping buddies where i live. Most of them are beginners and just learning the ropes. When i trip with them, i only take 2-2.5 grams, because I would probably scare them if i went off the edge.
I have never had a bad trip...ever. So I am usually down with any reasonable dose. The next time i trip with experienced psychonauts though, i will be taking something ridiculous, like 7-8 grams. Also, usually to do the high doses, you need a weekend, easily, sometimes 4-5 days of doing nothing atleast. This is why I always go sack out at Bonaroo, it is the best environment to trip, and if you do end up going completely sideways, it is ok, because no one is going to hurt you or arrest you.
I see some people on here kind of looking at heroic doses as juvenile and just being a druggy. But the most enlightening and great trips i have ever had was taking copious amounts with equally experienced trippers, because you feed off each other and combine to become this super abstract computing machine. I always want to test my limits, and see how far i can take myself, but the opportunity only arises a few times a year.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3821711 - 02/23/05 12:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I think many are compelled to take large trips... but unlike McKenna, most don't make it a life-long project.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #3821718 - 02/23/05 12:41 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
Terrence Mckenna calls them the Heroic Doses. I dont have many tripping buddies where i live. Most of them are beginners and just learning the ropes. When i trip with them, i only take 2-2.5 grams, because I would probably scare them if i went off the edge.
I have never had a bad trip...ever. So I am usually down with any reasonable dose. The next time i trip with experienced psychonauts though, i will be taking something ridiculous, like 7-8 grams. Also, usually to do the high doses, you need a weekend, easily, sometimes 4-5 days of doing nothing atleast. This is why I always go sack out at Bonaroo, it is the best environment to trip, and if you do end up going completely sideways, it is ok, because no one is going to hurt you or arrest you.
I see some people on here kind of looking at heroic doses as juvenile and just being a druggy. But the most enlightening and great trips i have ever had was taking copious amounts with equally experienced trippers, because you feed off each other and combine to become this super abstract computing machine. I always want to test my limits, and see how far i can take myself, but the opportunity only arises a few times a year.




For me, tripping has been all about learning how to give up control.  That is why my 5 gram trip was so terrifying...it was completely out of my control.  It's been a gradual process.  A few weeks ago I took 4 grams and gave up all control for the first time.  It was so amazing to finally surrender.  That's why I am looking forward to taking a heroic dose again because it will be a test for me.  Can I surrender my ego peacefully this time around...we will see.  :smile:


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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3821744 - 02/23/05 12:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yes, it is beneficial to test yourself with higher doses if you ask me.
Higher doses is where all the magic is if you ask me. But, once you have visited the places that high doses take you, then you only need psilocybin. Any amount will do, I find even with a small dose, if I want to, I can meditate into the high dose areas even without being on a high dose.

It is so hard to surrender your ego peacefully. It will do anything it can to make you fight it. All those feelings of disorientation, nausea, just plain loathing, meaninglessness, all these things are your ego trying to keep hold. The game is over for the ego once you realize that desire leads to dissapointment, and the ego will give you every last piece of candy in the drawer to try to get you not to realize that all the candy is just sugar with flavors on it.


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OfflineTim3WorX
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: mecreateme]
    #3822201 - 02/23/05 02:48 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've dabbled in a few high doses but they never turned out too great because I definatly wasnt ready for it. I remember doing 7grams my 3rd trip cause at the time i figured more the better.. since then i have learned alot about mushrooms and that they require great amounts of respect. At any rate i hope to be doing high doses again when i have the time and proper setting till then i'll be sticking to 2-3 grams at most until i can easily control the letting go of myself


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OfflineZirus666
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: Tim3WorX]
    #3822952 - 02/23/05 05:26 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tim3WorX said:control the letting go of myself




That needed quoting :smile:


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OfflineJacquesCousteau
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3827337 - 02/24/05 02:35 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EllemyshShade said:
It was so amazing to finally surrender.  That's why I am looking forward to taking a heroic dose again because it will be a test for me.  Can I surrender my ego peacefully this time around...we will see.  :smile:




Ellemysh.. that's so fucking awesome! I'm glad you have finally felt the amazing power of surrender and yield. Much love to you.

Go - with - the - flow. :smile:

This upcoming weekend I am going to take my first strong dose in a long time. (as in strong enough to probably force me into ego confrontation and therefore leading me to an ego loss experience.)

Infact, it's been so long since I had one of these experiences, I've changed drastically as a person since then.

I know myself so much better... and I know how to handle the situation I'm going to be faced with SO much better.

The last time I ate an 8th and did not experience ego loss. it was as if I was never confronted with my ego in the first place... which I usually expect from a strong reality-bending dose.

And an 8th used to do that for me... it used to completely blow me away.

Now I don't know if those doses were just less potent (they were fairly old, and already ground up) or if the changes to my ego over the last year have essentially made it capable of adapting to the conditions I'm placed in an 8th dose trip.

So now I am thinking I might take 4 grams this weekend... a LITTLE more, but not TOO much more.

These are freshly dried homegrowns, so it could end up being REALLY intense...

But what I'm looking for is that "forced confrontation" I used to get... it's like my brain's interaction with the chemical creates such an overactive state of thinking that it's absolutely impossible for me to turn OFF my thinking... so instead I learn (and re-learn every time, it seems) how to move my center from the "positive space" that is occupied by my logical mind into the "negative space" that is occupied by... well... God, for lack of a better term. (Or everything that is not my logical thinking mind.)

Anyway.. THAT's what I want... because I have not visited heaven in a while. :smile:


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3827459 - 02/24/05 03:12 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Ellemy, I personally love high doses, I find them to be the most rewarding. I just recently had a fantastic experience with a good dose, there will be a trip report complete with pictures soon hopefully. I say go for it and don't look back. What would be your plan? Are you going to listen to music?


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: gdman]
    #3829173 - 02/24/05 09:03 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gdman said:
Ellemy, I personally love high doses, I find them to be the most rewarding. I just recently had a fantastic experience with a good dose, there will be a trip report complete with pictures soon hopefully.  I say go for it and don't look back. What would be your plan? Are you going to listen to music?




It's 3 months away so I have a lot of time to prepare.  :smile:  I am sort of thinking that I should do it in a dark room alone like I planned to do it the first time around with 5 grams (it ended up with me and two other people in the room; me-only would have been better).  Only I am even thinking that I might not include music this time either.  Last time I took a dose this high, music lost its meaning and just floated around as a distraction, if you know what I mean.  I was getting more "music" from my surroundings then the CD that was playing. 

However, I also really do like the way music makes me feel on mushrooms, so I'll have to see.  :grin:

Thanks for the replies, everyone.  :heart:


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InvisibleHelp on the Way
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3829505 - 02/24/05 09:47 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

hell yea i love high doses

they can be rough, but its worth it to experience something completely beyond anything you ever thought was possible


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InvisibleDepthToTheCore
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: Help on the Way]
    #3831472 - 02/25/05 03:47 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Not thread-jacking here but something related to everyone here talking about the "struggle" with your ego and letting go. I was just curious as to what happens when you do "let go." Is it a time of immense relief, joy and euphoria? Is it nothingness? All i want to know is the state afterwards because people often talk about the point before ego dissolution as being traumatic, im curious to see what its like on the other side.

SOrry Ellemy if im stealing your thread, just thought it was a relevant question to ask...


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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: DepthToTheCore]
    #3831806 - 02/25/05 07:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

As I first stepped into the mushroom world I chose to begin with smaller doses, they put you in an alternate perception of reality but to me it was along the same lines as intense meditiation.  I was able to focus my mind to where I would feel a bit out of control but I could always pull myself back with relative ease.  Then I moved to higher doses, between 5-12g of dried homegrown shrooms, when I first felt my ego slipping away it was like I was slipping away, but regardless the fight I couldn't win, and eventually I'd lose any notion of 'me' as an entitity.  I find my thoughts to be more objective and based to evidence when not attached to my experiences and though some thoughts are still random and nonsensical I'd say I return to 'me' with greater insight and clarity than what I began with, and that is one of the reasons I continue to use mushrooms as well as other hallucinogens.

Now when I'm preparing for an ego loss trip I recount everything that has been bothering me/things I've been thinking about, I go through them in my mind and sort them out, leaving questions to be answered running through my mind as I begin and resolving all other issues. As the trip comes on and I start to feel a tug on my ego I notice I'm no longer self concious about losing my identity as a person, because I know that even though I may not be 'me' in the normal sense for a while I am still the sum of what I have learned and experienced in my lifetime, and any viewpoint I have regardless of the source is dependent on just that, my experiences.  That's what I've gleaned from a large number of ego loss trips.  And though the experience may seem to pass you in a moment the impression on you is like a form of branding and it will show on you forever, but it's entirely up to you to put to use what you've learned, perhaps improve yourself, and though a small change in you as one person may not have a net effect on humanity it's a large number of small changes over time that makes a difference, and in a social sense that's evolution :wink:

You can push your limits but don't push yourself off the edge, it's a long fall and an even longer climb back up.


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Offlinetheorganicdomino
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3832023 - 02/25/05 09:49 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've found trust is the key with high doses - that and making the environment as comfortable as possible.

I've had 10 5g trips in the past 18 months (and one 10g one - which was by accident, due to fucking up the measuring, and truly beyond description) and no matter what comes up I assure myself that I am going through a processes of cleansing and trust the shrooms will lead me through the path I need to pass through.

Try not to see it as an obstacle and more as a priviledge.

I had some scary high level trips early on, which I thought would put me off forever - but analysing the beneficial things that transpired in my life due to these trips I appreciated the lessons an intense trip can give you. Once I got this thought under my belt I never looked back and every trip is a smooth ride.

You've got plenty of time to prepare and sound like you've got the determination to pull off a momentous trip for yourself.


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: DepthToTheCore]
    #3832121 - 02/25/05 10:24 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

the_notorious said:
Not thread-jacking here but something related to everyone here talking about the "struggle" with your ego and letting go. I was just curious as to what happens when you do "let go." Is it a time of immense relief, joy and euphoria? Is it nothingness? All i want to know is the state afterwards because people often talk about the point before ego dissolution as being traumatic, im curious to see what its like on the other side.

SOrry Ellemy if im stealing your thread, just thought it was a relevant question to ask...




Definately.  :smile: 

Okay, when I fight my ego, the trip gets overrun with negativity and I start to wonder if I am going insane.  This can be the most terrifying thing you can ever imagine.  My first 5 gram trip was like this.  My ego was fighting for all it was worth, trying to stop it, couldn't accept it.  Everything was bad, everything was me.  A very horrifying experience.  I experienced existence as universal patterns and as 'myself,' but yet "i" couldn't find myself.  It was like being everywhere and nowhere at the same time, continously being pulled apart.  Honestly, I suspect if there was a hell, this would have been it.  I have NEVER gotten my ass handed to me so hard on any psychedelic EVER.  All beauty in the world became hideous.  That was on 5 grams. 

Anyway, when I let go of my ego for the first time (months after the scary trip), it was SO SO SO different.  Not crazy, not bizarre, not scary.  Perfect.  Everything became one organism.  THat's the only way I can explain it.  There was only one "I" and it was everything, and there was bliss, and happyness, and satisfaction.  Everything was one thing.  It was weird because after I surrendered I started to have a dialog with the chemical.  For example, I could feel it asking for a little more, and I would give it.  I didn't feel fear or paranoia or anything, it was as though everything in the universe was suspended from ME.  That's the only way I can describe this experience:  Suspended motionless in time.  My awareness became a passive observer.  My friend Kristi experienced this as well, and she described it as "a place of supreme bliss, the universe making love to itself."  This was on 4 grams. 

One interesting thing, is that the scary trip left much more of an impression on me then the other egoloss trip did.  I will always remember the 4g trip as being the first time I've ever let go, which is an important lesson that I am thankful for.  After that trip, I felt I finally knew what psychedelics were all about, and I felt as though I had passed the test. 

But...I still have flashbacks from my 5 gram trip.  It's been haunting me for awhile.  I know it's vital to "face" what had horrified me so much last time.  Set and setting will be strictly adhered to this time.  I think part of my downfall last time was inviting two non-trippers into my space because I wanted to talk to them.  But soon I was too far gone to tell them to leave and was 'caught' up in the trip kicking my ass...so you know how it is.  It just started to snowball into a nightmare. 

Yeah, I found out that night that on high-doses, the only person you can count on is yourself.  :tongue:

THanks for the replies in this thread!  It feels great to be able to talk about this.  :heart:

truly,

*me*


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InvisibleMOTH
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: theorganicdomino]
    #3832127 - 02/25/05 10:25 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

theorganicdomino said:
I've found trust is the key with high doses - that and making the environment as comfortable as possible.





I totally agree. Trust is paramount. I tell this to every new person I trip with, since I wish someone had told me that before I started tripping. It really puts a comfortable spin on tripping for me now that I actually have placed trust in the drug I am taking.


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OfflineBardonic
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3832173 - 02/25/05 10:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a musician but at high doses I agree that sound loses all meaning. The relativity of the frequencies is percieved, and becomes chaos to the ear


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InvisibleDepthToTheCore
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: Bardonic]
    #3835358 - 02/26/05 01:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Good response Ellemy, thanks for that.


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InvisibleTM
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Re: Pushing your own limits with high doses [Re: MOTH]
    #3839885 - 02/27/05 03:12 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I've never been all the way there. Once, on 5 grams of very potent cubes I had the brief experience of being at the threshold of ego loss... I started to lose my sense of self and I fought it. I was on my boat in the middle of a lake at the peak of a strong 'level 4' trip and all of a sudden I was staring through a doorway to nothingness, but I kept reminding myself, "I'm a human being on my boat, on the lake and I'm just tripping". After about 20 seconds I was back into the 'level 4' zone and quite relieved.

Subsequently, I did 7 grams, my record dose. I was listening to my usual trip tracks through headphones, as usual, and the music began to sound weird. My brain could no longer comprehend the sounds. The vocals were slowing down and the melody became unrecognizable. I knew that if I removed the headphones, I'd lose my ego for sure. The music was all that was keeping me 'grounded'. I chickened out and kept trying to hear the music. After about 3 minutes I was back to a strong 'level 4' and the music sounded fine.

I don't know when I'll ever be ready to do like 8 grams with no music and just let go. It's scary. Some day I will, I just don't know when.


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