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Offlineesin
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Wild poppies galore!!
    #3821259 - 02/23/05 08:08 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

I'm in awe :shocked:

I was driving through an abandoned field when i spotted this year's first Red Poppies (Papaver Rhoeas). I was expecting this occasion for a while as i read they synergize surprizingly well with kratom.

I stopped my car, observed the flowers and took a look around to see if there's more. I spotted right away two white and deep purple degrad? poppies.

Took a look closer to find out they are Wild Poppies or Papaver Somniferum of the subspecies Setigerum, a species i knew existed in my country but had never found before.
[EDIT: My ssp. Setigerum identification stems from the fact that the only local wild somniferum is this subspecies as far as i know. The pics i've seen of it definitely match]

I was shocked. I looked around further and there are LOTS of still unopened flowers, lots in full bloom and lots of pods with no petals on them.

I just came home quickly and will now return there with my shitty camera and a bag, take some pics and harvest the mature ones. They are all very small pods but i think they are probably still useful.

I will probably have seeds of this wild variety soon so if anyone is interested hit me up in a few weeks. They should be a lot hardier than domesticated varieties.

I plan on collecting as many seeds as i can and spread them around everywhere as these are already acclimatized to our weather and soil.

God i'm so happy :biggrin:
Pics very soon!

Edited by esin (02/23/05 10:31 AM)

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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3821447 - 02/23/05 09:24 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

hehe
lovely news :smile:
cant wait for pics
:sun:


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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: butterflydawn]
    #3821630 - 02/23/05 10:15 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Well, here they are. Sorry about the nasty quality :crazy:


Beautiful MG like flowers.


Papaver Rhoeas in bloom.


Papaver Rhoeas seed pod.


You know what it is :wink:


Idem.


Bloom and seed pods.


More pods.


A nice bundle.


Soon to be blooms.


Two very different actives: Poppy and Phragmites Australis


The harvest.

-------------------

There was a huge amount of poppies that had been cut off and destroyed. This made me think the police or some anti-drug moron are on to them :mad2:

I only harvested the pods from a small portion of the destroyed plants as of yet.
Just grabbed a huge bundle and brought it home where i separated the pods.

I chewed on one small pod and it had a sweet taste, which makes me think maybe they are inactive...? :confused:
Only bioassay will tell i guess.

The seeds inside the pods are white and still fresh. I suppose i have to let the pods dry to harvest viable seed...?

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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3821751 - 02/23/05 10:51 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

whoooaaa!
great!
:smile:
hope you'll find your answers.

:sun:


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OfflineAtma
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: butterflydawn]
    #3822053 - 02/23/05 12:02 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Esin, this is VERY interesting to me. Thank you so much for sharing. I have never seen popppies in their native habitat. Awesome!

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OfflineWysefool
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Atma]
    #3822140 - 02/23/05 12:27 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Nice find!!!


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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3822981 - 02/23/05 03:32 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

kewl find dude :smile:
id definetly be interested in seeds :smile:


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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #3823764 - 02/23/05 06:09 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Glad you guys found it interesting :smile:

I probably had seen many of these before it even occured to me they might be something interesting. As this past year i've researched this plant quite a bit, it just caught my eye as soon as i spotted it.

Couple questions,

Do i have to let the pods dry in the plant to get viable seed? Or can i just dry the pods i cutted, remove the seed and expect them to be viable?

Does anyone know what would be a good *begginers* dose for these small hazelnut-sized pods?

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OfflineAtma
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3824339 - 02/23/05 08:12 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Yes, you should dry them before attempting to plant the seed. Bunch them together and hang them upside down in a dark room that is very dry. The seed crown vents will open a drop seed everywhere. I would really recommend you find the most mature pods for seed. This will be a good indicator that they fully developed. To tell if a pod is mature, look at the crown. If the crown is pointing upwards then they are good to go. If not, give em a few days. I would not use more than a sixth of those pods you have there. You might want to start even lower, as potency and such can vary alot, and as for wild poppies I have no clue as to potency. General rule: Start slow and small and work your way up. Very cool and thanks again for sharing. PM me if you ever get seeds available, I will certainly make it worth your while :wink:

Some questions for you: What kind of environment are those in? Is it woodsy, or more open field? How many(estimated) plants are in the area? Please let us know about the potency and effects!

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Atma]
    #3828342 - 02/24/05 04:01 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

In an open field with no trees and full sun. It's in the outskirts of a big city.

There are probably many hundreds of both Somniferum and Rhoeas scattered around the field. They're just weeds ya know...

Most of the pods are ridiculously small though as they don't have the 'commodities' of domestic poppies. No loose soil, no ferts, growing amongst other weeds...
Especially this winter which was the driest i ever saw here (some horticulutural products have tripled their price, wheat plantations in critical areas tottaly destroyed, etc..).

I tried spreading domestic turkish poppy seeds in places with loose soil to no luck. The few which germinated died soon after from thirst. Little did i know what i was going to find a couple of months later in the place i least expected :wink:

I guess i'll have to return there tomorrow again and pick up another big bundle of cut down poppies as it is going to rain this weekend, so i heard.
I'll wait for the intact ones to ripen to harvest seed.

Will definitely post something once i have the chance to bioassay them.
Turns out the sweet taste from the pod i ate was from the seeds inside. I tried chewing another one last night after removing all of the seeds and it tasted *very* bitter.

Thanks a lot for the help Atma :sun:
I'll drop you and Vertigo a line once i get ripe seeds :smile:

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Offlinetheocean06
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3828351 - 02/24/05 04:03 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

Remember though, they are a weed.  The places you plant seeds, give them a few years, they could take over the place.  They are very hardy, so be careful where you plant them.

Edit:  They are pretty though, one of the nicer looking weeds.  Nice find esin :thumbup:


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Edited by theocean06 (02/24/05 04:29 PM)

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: theocean06]
    #3828636 - 02/24/05 05:19 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

I won't need to spread any more seeds around if this field keeps producing them and they are active :wink:

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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3845728 - 02/28/05 08:10 AM (19 years, 23 days ago)

They're not active. I've come across them before (rather common in south east NSW) and although they look close to opium poppy, they're not.


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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Starter]
    #3846222 - 02/28/05 10:52 AM (19 years, 23 days ago)

Perhaps. I've been researching this poppy these last few days.
Apparently some consider it a different species than somniferum, but my country's legislation considers it a subspecies of somniferum.

Its major alkaloid is papaverine, but it does contain morphine and codeine: less than ssp. somniferum but supposedly still enough to be used recreationally.
http://cccc.uochb.cas.cz/Vol/61/No07/19961047.html
http://www.rsnz.org/publish/nzjb/1990/36.php
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bulletin_1953-01-01_1_page005.html

I blended 20g of fresh pods (seeds and all) and upper stems in hot water and downed it last night. Considering the seeds make up for 50% of pod weight i took prolly the equivalent to 12,5g of fresh empty pods + upper stems, which is a very low dose as far as i know - even for p. somniferum.

It produced some sedation and itchiness. No euphoria at all.
Judging by last night's experience i would much rather have drunk a nice dose of kratom, but i'm not ready to give up yet.
Will dry my pods and remove the seeds so i can accurately judge the dose based on the recommended dose of somniferum dried pods. Only than will i be willing to accept its inactivity (or activity) :wink:

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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3846803 - 02/28/05 01:07 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

I would not take 12.5gm of opium poppies like that. You could OD very seriously on that amount.


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InvisibleStarter
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3847150 - 02/28/05 02:28 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

esin, I've grown both and compared. Here's some pics. Note P.somniferum, the mauve one in left pic and compare to what isn't P.somniferum in middle and right pic.



If I were you, I'd get onto the real thing and sow where you've found those wild poppies. Go for a Tasmanian strain. It will naturalise.



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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Stonehenge]
    #3847504 - 02/28/05 03:47 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

Stoney, as far as i read a dose of dry p. somniferum pods is 5-10g.

I was taking 12,5g of fresh p. setigerum pods and stems. This (sub)species being considerably weaker than somniferum. 12,5g fresh would dry to be at most 5g dried.

I thought that would be a lower end dose.

Would 12,5g fresh somniferum pods be an OD?

---

Starter, will definitely try that next season :wink:
Think they'd grow even without turning and loosening the soil?

I am currently growing somniferums at home but i don't think i will ever again after this year, as poppy cultivation is very illegal where i live, whatever the purpose :whistling:
There is no tradition of using poppies for ornamental purposes or of using poppy seeds in food. There would be no excuse in the eventuality that i'd get caught

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OfflineAtma
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3847514 - 02/28/05 03:49 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

I'm wondering if this wild poppy is the parent plant of our modern domesticated Papaver Somniferum.

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Atma]
    #3847562 - 02/28/05 03:57 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

It was originally thought to be.

However,

Quote:

The cytological evidence of a close affinity between P setigerum and P somniferum is discussed by Fulton ([14] ). P. somniferum is diploid ( n=11) and P. setigerum is tetraploid ( n=22) with exactly twice the number of chromosomes. No other species of Papaver is known to have the number n=11 or a multiple of this number. This information indicates that P setigerum is not the wild ancestral species of the cultivated P somniferum, as was formerly believed since a diploid would not be derived from a tetraploid plant.



from:Detection of Morphine in Papaver setigerum DC

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OfflineAtma
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3847583 - 02/28/05 04:01 PM (19 years, 23 days ago)

Very interesting, thanks! :thumbup:

Now, I wonder where our modern poppy originated from.

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3897837 - 03/10/05 01:17 PM (19 years, 13 days ago)

I finally have some dried pods and seeds. I'm testing the seeds for viability at the moment.

I found another document of interest, this one deals with quantitative analysis of P. Setigerum alkaloids. Seems setigerum's opium has roughly half the amount of morphine than that of somniferum's opium, and also different ratios of the other alkaloids. http://www.poppies.org/news/9950200651486.shtml

I'm planning to have a last try with setigerum tea tonight. If it fails to produce some sort of pleasant effects i will give up on them and hope my flowerpot 'Danbrogs' will grow me a dose for me and a friend.


6g of dried pods were finely grinded. Added boiling water and stirred the powder in.
6g dried was something like 55 pods, way more than i drank last time. This time the tea is much darker and bitter. The bitter taste is not unlike that of kratom tea.

I will drink it in a few hours, after i have dinner. Meanwhile it is resting in the fridge. Should i drink the 'mud' as well (like kratom) or is it better to filter it out?

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Offline88mustanggt
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3899104 - 03/10/05 05:31 PM (19 years, 13 days ago)

filter

good luck, report back :smile:

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: 88mustanggt]
    #3901329 - 03/11/05 05:59 AM (19 years, 12 days ago)

Well, nothing besides a mild body high and some itchiness.

I smoked some hash and got really messed up, and i don't get messed up on hash alone anymore. Nothing that couldn't have been placebo though :shrug:

Seems cyber was right and there's not much to these poppies besides giving a beautiful purple tone to the fields, at least in reasonable doses.

I bet some sort of extraction would result in an interesting but severely addictive white powder - but i will not go there.

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OfflinePsilopleix
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #3914044 - 03/13/05 10:44 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

i went for a bike ride today and came across a small field of poppies, hundreds of very large specimens.
large red flowers but small, acorn sized pods. are these opium poppies?
i picked a couple pods for my own investigation...

they dont look like the pods im used to seeing.
whats the deal? :confused:

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OfflineAtma
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Psilopleix]
    #3914079 - 03/13/05 10:51 PM (19 years, 10 days ago)

Psilo, unfortunately those are not papaver somniferum. The pods look more closely to Papaver Rhoaes or Papaver Orientalis. Most like Rhoaes(red poppy). They are inactive, but very beautiful to look at!

Ps - Esin, how goes the seeding of these? Any germination? Very interested in this.


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Edited by Atma (03/13/05 10:52 PM)

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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Atma]
    #3917412 - 03/14/05 05:13 PM (19 years, 9 days ago)

Psilo, sounds like rhoeas. In my 2nd post in this thread there's a picture of one in bloom and also a pod.

They contain alkaloids but are pretty much inactive. I did read in Daniel Siebert's kratom guide that they synergize well with kratom though.

Atma, no germination yet but it's only been 4 or 5 days. I didn't forget ya :wink: If these are unviable i'll go to the field and hunt for pods that naturally dried in the plants.

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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #4064858 - 04/17/05 05:14 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i recieved some seeds from esin and one of em has germinated :smile:
ill be documenting the grow in the page in my siggy \/\/\/

EDIT:

oopsie, i had mistaken one of my p. somniferums for it...
nothing yet but will post pics when something sprouts.


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Edited by Vertigo6911 (04/19/05 12:43 PM)

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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4111689 - 04/29/05 03:38 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

ok this time i got one for real.
its too small to get on cam but as soon as it gets big enuff ill post some pics...


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Offlineesin
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: Vertigo6911]
    #4114319 - 04/30/05 10:42 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Nice! i was starting to get worried that the seeds i had sent ya weren't viable.
They had to be though as i harvested them from dried fully mature pods such as these



Than i remembered it might be a mechanism as to not germinate in the hot summer months. They might need cold temps to germinate, or even stratification.

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OfflineVertigo6911
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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #4126375 - 05/03/05 01:28 AM (18 years, 10 months ago)

mmm i dont think so, my somniferums sprouts 90% at least.
i think in the wild this is how it works, only a few seeds survive
the elements and sprout...

if all goes well this lill guy will yield some more seeds:



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Re: Wild poppies galore!! [Re: esin]
    #4278876 - 06/10/05 05:47 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

little guy is doing well :smile:


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