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OfflineZekebomb
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the infinite wheel
    #3820718 - 02/23/05 01:04 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

(disclaimer: I use the words 'infinite' and 'infinitely' way to much below)

picture a wheel, rotating on an axis. you with me so far? the outside always moves faster than the inside, even though it travels the same amount of degrees. There's an imaginery point, right in the very centre of the wheel, which isn't moving at all, but which is still rotating. yes?

how much faster the outside moves than the inside is a function of how long the wheel's spokes are. er whatever. the spokes magnify motion from the centre.

Now imagine a wheel whose spokes are infinitely long. if the centre moves at all, even infinitesimally, the outer edge of the wheel (which lies infinity leagues away) will be moving at an infinite speed. this is because the motion at the centre of the wheel is infinitely magnified.

So, my question is, does the centre of the wheel actually have to move at all for the outside to move? remember, the centre only has to move infinitesimally and the outside moves infinitely fast. so is there a difference between 'infinitely small' and 'zero'? (something that is 'infinitely small' is still something, of course, but I'm not sure about that actally, because it's not just really really small, it's 'infinitely small'.)

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Invisiblepupil
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3820763 - 02/23/05 01:17 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

i would like to answer you, but i am too mezmorized by your infinite wheel...


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3820795 - 02/23/05 01:31 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Nothing wrong with INFiNiTEE, no matter how many times you use it....  :wink:

I think the BIGGER question *might* be....: 
Would there be an infinitely possible way to not have that wheel move at any given point in time....? 
Perhaps imperturbable....?    :ooo: 

Anything is possible, right....?  Is anything impossible....?  Or perhaps just unplausible....?!?

What a silently impinging infinite pinnacle-axis of impetus motionlessness....  :what:

Perhaps infinitely is  perpetual, or perhaps that is implied....?    :shiftyeyes:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: pupil]
    #3820806 - 02/23/05 01:37 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

pupil said:
i would like to answer you, but i am too mezmorized by your infinite wheel...




Pupil, FOCUS....  :eek:

You didn't look at the possibilities....  Eye had to dilate my I's a bit for this one....  :eyeball: :eyeball:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3820820 - 02/23/05 01:44 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

big wheels bend like galaxies and pinwheels

these huge arrangements seemingly go on forever and have black holes at their centers which do something unspeakable to matter

imagination can barely stretch around all the phenomena. but you done a good start


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3820841 - 02/23/05 01:58 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Hee Hee, if I am right about my "theory" on black holes, the unspeakable malicious and senseless destruction of matter is thru removing that vacuum of space within matter itself....    Only one way that I can see doing that....    :grin:

OOoops, I didn't mean to take this off topic....!    :tongue:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3820891 - 02/23/05 02:40 AM (19 years, 29 days ago)

Zekebomb,  Do you mind if we make this wheel model a lil more mobile or more flexible and less 2-D - FLAT....?

For the "axis" of rotation will turn from a 2-D linear axis to limitless but infinitely finite focal POINT....  1-D...?    :what: 

Perhaps a door to the 4th dimension is possible by creating a rift within a 1st dimension point in space....?

That seems lame, no...?  A  1-Dimensional axis...?    Hhhhhmmmm....  That is how it works for gyroscopes, right....?  :ooo:


******************************************************
Zeke, you know, we *should* take these new ideas back to the Lunar Hilton Escape and test out a few SpiNNerZ~ fo~ sho~....  Some sort of gyroscopic (e)motional forces are (un)bound to spin out of control....!    :lol:  I got dibs on the front desk receptionist, she is wheely wheely cool....    :tongue:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleCJay
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3821283 - 02/23/05 08:24 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

so is there a difference between 'infinitely small' and 'zero'?




Personally I think yes - because 'infinitely small' is not zero. Zero means absolutely no movement whatsoever. Complete and utter stillnes. Zero movement.

'infinitely small' may be so small that it defies our measurement with the tools at our disposal....we might take it for zero....but it is not. There is movement.

Quote:

big wheels bend like galaxies and pinwheels




The outside edge is held back by physics from keeping up with the inside revolution. whirlpool stylee. Is that even vaguely right?

Is infinity thus inhibited?

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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: CJay]
    #3821301 - 02/23/05 08:34 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

The simple answer is yes, there has to be some motion, even if it is infinitely small, as zero times infinity, is of course zero.

Beyond a certain length, though, as CJay mentioned, the theory becomes pretty shaky due to physical limitations.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth

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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821314 - 02/23/05 08:38 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Im quite sure that infinite is beyond intellectual comprehension. Although i could be wrong. If so could someone please convey to me the infinte, i would be most pleased if someone could do so adequately.


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821393 - 02/23/05 09:10 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Im quite sure that infinite is beyond intellectual comprehension. Although i could be wrong. If so could someone please convey to me the infinte, i would be most pleased if someone could do so adequately.




Everything we know in our lives, including our lives, and our knowledge of them, has a limit. In being the absence of such limits, infinity is the opposite of everything we know, so I wont pretend I can harness the true meaning of infinity.

However, one could argue that is a definition in itself. Though I can not percieve it with any understanding, I may have expressed its meaning in stating its opposite.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821508 - 02/23/05 09:40 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

zero times infinity, is of course zero.


funny thing about that seemingly simple equation...

infinity x 0 = 0, however
0 divided by 0 does NOT = infinity

most equations you can reverse, such as 2x3=6 / 6dividedby3=2. but not any equation which involves infinity.

besides, as far as I know the jury's pretty much out on zero times infinity. since infinity is SOO vast, the answer might be more than zero.

Beyond a certain length, though, as CJay mentioned, the theory becomes pretty shaky due to physical limitations.


what, are you saying it might be hard to build a wheel with infinitely long spokes?? remember, this is a thought experiment

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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3821537 - 02/23/05 09:48 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

funny thing about that seemingly simple equation...

infinity x 0 = 0, however
0 divided by 0 does NOT = infinity

most equations you can reverse, such as 2x3=6 / 6dividedby3=2. but not any equation which involves infinity.

besides, as far as I know the jury's pretty much out on zero times infinity. since infinity is SOO vast, the answer might be more than zero.


As vast as that infinity is, there are zero infinities, therefore the size of one is irrelevant, it does not exist.

what, are you saying it might be hard to build a wheel with infinitely long spokes?? remember, this is a thought experiment

Yes, I remember, and I think that the principle of thought you based the idea on does not apply at these ranges, though I also answered as if it did, to entertain the thought.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: InFiNiTEE [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821557 - 02/23/05 09:56 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Im quite sure that infinite is beyond intellectual comprehension.

good point sinbad, especially since the title of this thread is "let's get infinity sorted out once and for all"... er wait no it isn't.

CB: As vast as that infinity is, there are zero infinities, therefore the size of one is irrelevant, it does not exist.


that's true. but what about the non-reversableness of the equation? I dunno... for some reason the idea of zero cancelling out infinity has never sat well with me. I get the feeling that zero is in a way the opposite of infinity (in a more completely opposite way than 5 is opposite of -5), and therefore equations featuring both are pretty dodgy.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: InFiNiTEE in Stillness of Motion Infinitely Unbound in Bondage.... [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821626 - 02/23/05 10:13 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

CrazyBusiness said:
The simple answer is yes, there has to be some motion, even if it is infinitely small, as zero times infinity, is of course zero.

Beyond a certain length, though, as CJay mentioned, the theory becomes pretty shaky due to physical limitations.




Besides physical limitations (which *might* be overcome), and thinking more theoretical, if you did have an infinite wheel, you could apply zero to it in a way that would leave the structure intact (as to share Infinite WITH Zero), but also prohibit all movement (until it formed a black-hole and collapsed in upon itself)....

Infinate (in size and structure) X ZERO (in tempurature - on a Kelvin scale) would make ALL motion stop - in theory.... Even down to the very atomic structure of the susbstance contained within the wheel....

The question is, what is the wheel made out of....? If it is made out of pure light or a scientific Force like gravity or magnetical forces, what effects would Zero Kelvin actually have upon it....?

Everything is Nothing, Theoretically....?

Zero X Infinite = 0 X -0 = Infinite....?

(I wonder how "phi" would fit in here....)


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinea_h_w
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Re: InFiNiTEE [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3821632 - 02/23/05 10:16 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

in my opinion zero and infinity are not that far apart. if in a shroom trip all of a sudden time seems to stop, what is happening? I seem to be experiencing eternity and yet time is reduced to nothing. emptiness contains all and yet is nothing in itself.

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: InFiNiTEE [Re: a_h_w]
    #3821828 - 02/23/05 11:09 AM (19 years, 28 days ago)

in my opinion zero and infinity are not that far apart

well, just ask the Taoists: zero is so zeroish that it's one nanosecond away from becoming infinite.

Phantomcat: what's all this talk about the infinite wheel collapsing into a black hole? why would that happen? don't get me wrong, any excuse for a black hole to form is okay by me...

Would there be an infinitely possible way to not have that wheel move at any given point in time....?

I'm about to start another thread to address just that

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823336 - 02/23/05 04:39 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Reading your post, I feel like I am studying one of M.C. Escher's famous impossible pictures. A logical answer doesn't come to mind, but I take it this thread was created to make you THINK. So I will try anyways, just for fun.

At first it would seem there are two infinities. One is ever expanding; the spoke of the wheel. The other infinity, or should I say infinite task, asks you to find the non-rotating point in the center of the wheel.

Focusing on the center of the wheel, we realize that even the smallest conceivable point is rotating. This indicates that it is orbiting around an smaller point. I originally made the mistake of visualizing what this smaller area looked like; but I found that even this smaller point had an even smaller point inside of it in which it was rotating around. I came to the conclusion that there is a geometric point (1D) inside of this two dimensional wheel. This point has symmetry to itself, so it does not move.

So we have a fixed, one dimensional point with a spoke of infinite measure attached to it. In geometry, we call this a ray. Any additional points on this ray are going to rotate around the ray?s origin. The rule holds true even for the point closest to the origin.

Will a wheel with a spoke of infinite measure be able to turn? If infinity is possible, and it is in our theoretical model, then the turning wheel is also.

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3823422 - 02/23/05 04:57 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

to find the non-rotating point in the center of the wheel.


nope, I said that there's a non-moving point in the centre. this point is potentially still rotating. it just isn't sweeping around the 360 degrees (orbiting). there's a difference between rotating and orbiting, right?

I made a big assumption in my original post: that the axis of a wheel is a one-dimensional line, rather than a fuzzy indistinct bar. I guess in a thought experiment everything can be perfect.

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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3823838 - 02/23/05 06:22 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

>there's a difference between rotating and orbiting, right?
-The only difference that I see is inclusion.

You did make alot of assumptions, but they were necessary to build the hypothetical model we were all working in. I'm sorry if I broke away from that model, deunionizing our thoughts, but I did it to make a model that way more logical (at least to me)

Can you explain how the center point is rotating, but not the full 360 degrees, while the rest of the wheel is completing that 360 degrees?

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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3824395 - 02/23/05 08:27 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

All this infinity talk is weirding me out. But I have a more down to earth question about this wheel.
What if you make a really big wheel in space. Then slowly start turning it. While increasing speed there must be a point when the tip starts to reach lightspeed, no?
How big must the wheel be to reach lightspeed with one 360 degree revolution per second?

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: TheShroomHermit]
    #3824505 - 02/23/05 08:46 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

>there's a difference between rotating and orbiting, right?
-The only difference that I see is inclusion.


the way I see it, there is a difference. let's say I am as wide as the axis around which I orbit (I have zero width and length and height. I am a point. my axis is a line, with extension in only one dimension). let's say I'm two inches away from the axis. so around and around I go, yes? my face is always towards the axis as I go round. I am orbiting. now let's say I move to the centre, so that I am exactly on my axis. am I still orbiting? No, but I am still rotating.

pardon me if I fail to remember why this distinction is relevant. I don't have time to root through the posts at present, I have a truckload o' dishes to clean. mmm dinner was fantistic though.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: cybrbeast]
    #3824629 - 02/23/05 09:05 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:
How big must the wheel be to reach lightspeed with one 360 degree revolution per second?




Good question...!  I don't know the "Speed of Light", but....

Answer:
If you take the speed of light,
Divide that number by 3,153,600,
Divide that number by Pi, and then,
Get the square root of that number,

You will have your radius to which your wheel will be moving at one rotation per second - at light speed....   
(Double the radius to get the diameter, you didn't specify....)

G-Forces are a bitch, better wear a safety helmet....!

:grin:


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinebrewwhaha1
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: Zekebomb]
    #3824684 - 02/23/05 09:14 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

when you speak of infanite you speak of theories and not absolutes. Like absolute freezing zero degrees K. Nothing can be colder than that. And in finding the center of a wheel the point that does not rotate you would require an absolute or a law (lets call it the law of smallness to keep it interesting). In order to prove the law of smallness you would require an instrument that could measure the smallest thing possible. But if the instrument you are using to measure the law of smallness only measures up to a certain point --- the percieved smallest thing --- is it the fault of the device that it can't measure anything smaller or does it have the capacity to measure things smaller than the smallest thing? If we can measure past the smallest thing how do we know we are measureing anything at all because we have already past the smallest thing and now we are effectivly trying to measure NOTHING. Because if we were measuring something past the smallest thing the smallest thing would no longer be the smallest thing. Therefore: proving the law of smallness is impossible. This results an impossible situation on the probability of finding the infanite centre of a rotating wheel no matter how small the increments become.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: brewwhaha1]
    #3824712 - 02/23/05 09:19 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

You cannot measure a theoretical point.... And a mathematical point IS theoretical....


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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OfflineZekebomb
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: brewwhaha1]
    #3825010 - 02/23/05 10:14 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

brewhaha, I liked your post about the law of smallness. proving such a law is impossible, you're right. however:

And in finding the center of a wheel the point that does not rotate

I guess I'm bad at expressing myself. my contention (assumption) is that the absolute centre of a rotating wheel (which is a point) does not move (although it does rotate), unlike any other given point in the wheel, which both rotates and moves.

the thing is, I may be wrong. however, I think I'm right. can anyone sink my battleship? if not, then we're all working with the assumption above.

cybrbeast: What if you make a really big wheel in space. Then slowly start turning it. While increasing speed there must be a point when the tip starts to reach lightspeed, no?

that's trippy, because let's say you put a bunch of atomic clocks all along one of the spokes of the wheel, one every ten feet or something. time would get slower and slower as you moved out along the spoke, until eventually you reached the tip, which is moving at light speed. here at the tip, time is at a standstill! plus solid objects (like the wheel) are sort of squashed along the axis of their movement... fuckin trippy I swear to Gead.

so you have a wheel spinning, 360 degrees/second, and at the centre time is ticking along at the proper speed (which is, get this, one second/second), but as you move out, the speed of the wheel's movement is faster and faster yet it takes longer and longer to move at all because time is going slower and slower. at the tip, it is moving at the speed of light (i.e. hellah fast) yet it takes, for all intents and purposes, forever to move! (plus apparently it's all squashed out of shape!) how do you reconcile the inside of the wheel with the outside?!?

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Bend it like a Grand Pinwheel..... =P [Re: CJay]
    #3825158 - 02/23/05 10:35 PM (19 years, 28 days ago)

Profound moment that I JUST realized....  It was said last night, and I totally missed it (wrapped up in my own thoughts).....:    :eek:  :ooo:

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
big wheels bend like galaxies and pinwheels

these huge arrangements seemingly go on forever and have black holes at their centers which do something unspeakable to matter




redgreenvines, kudos to you, mucho~ BRILLIANT....!  :thumbup:
And it makes perfect sence.....

The spokes would be straight until the point at which the spokes reached the length of "Light Speed", and then because of the physics theory of E=MC?, in theory, the spokes past that point would slow down in the time space "continuum", and start to bend in a swirling effect....  :hypno:    :eek:  :what:

If you thought of that yourself, you *should* get some kind of award, because in theory, that is "FUCKING GRAND"....!    :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:

(Am I seeing the makings of a black-hole, in theory....?)  :grin:

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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3826168 - 02/24/05 04:24 AM (19 years, 27 days ago)

*error*  :grin:

Edited by cybrbeast (02/25/05 05:19 AM)

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Offlinebrewwhaha1
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Re: the infinite wheel [Re: cybrbeast]
    #3828988 - 02/24/05 06:31 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

argument #2: Yes the center of the wheel must move regardless of how small it is. Even the most microscopic invisible thing has a center. Since it has a center it must have a radius to get to its outside edge (regardless of how small the measurement is). Because it has a radius it most definitely has a circumference. If the circumference is rotated --- the inner most circle must move.

Aside: Let's think about geometry and the center of eternity. If eternity is a line and is drawn out as such:
a b
<--------.--------> it is understood that lines a and b travel for eternity in both directions regardless of measurement units given for the line mm, cm, km etc. The (.) in the center is a stop point. Considering that both lines a and b connect how is it possible to define the measurement between a and b? Smaller and smaller increments of measurement can be given to measure the distance from (.) to a and (.) to b. Theoretically someone could go on forever creating new units of measurement to describe the decreasing distance between lines a and b preventing those two lines from ever touching at the stop point (.) Yet; geometry states that these two lines a and b do in fact connect at a point (.)

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: cybrbeast]
    #3829937 - 02/24/05 08:42 PM (19 years, 27 days ago)

EGADS, I are good is math....?  :blush:  I COMPLETELY screwed that up....    :shake:    What a day....!  :lol:
In the math I use everyday, I do not do velocity, time, or speed calculations and I seemed to have screwed up a bit (MUCH).... 
This is not an excuse for error, I just screwed up....  :shake:  (and this is *simple* crap...!?)
How I managed to put the formula for getting the area of a circle in there, I will never know....  DUUUuuuhhhh.....

Let me try again, AND show my construction....  (and I will go MUCH slower, and wear a helmet....)  :tongue:



186,000mi/sec  =  The Speed of Light....  (OR the circumference of the circle traveling at light speed/sec....)
? 3.14159265  = Pi....
= ? 59205.639mi  =  Diameter to which your wheel will be moving at one rotation per second - at light speed....
? 2...................  =  To get the Radius....
=  R 29602.816mi  = Radius to which your wheel will be moving at one rotation per second - at light speed....





186,000mi/sec  =  The Speed of Light....  (OR the circumference of the circle traveling light speed/sec....)
? ....360?  =  Degrees in a circle....
=  516.66666~mi  =  The distance traveled for Each degree of rotation....



Can I get a checker over here to go over my math...??.???    :lol:


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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Re: Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #3833357 - 02/25/05 02:15 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

I guess I'm jumping on this thread kind of late, but I wanted to suggest a couple of ideas if I may...

With respect to the question: ...is there a difference between 'infinitely small' and 'zero'?

This is something that a friend of mine helped me to understand a while ago, and that is: if you could take an object and divide it in half, and then divide each half into halves, and keep doing that forever and ever, the object will disappear to the naked eye, but it would still exist. The moral of the story is, you can't 'eliminate' something by reducing it's relative size (theoretically speaking). The way that this idea relates to your question is, when you say 'infinitely small' you are describing a quantity of something. 'Zero' is simply nothing, and therefore can't be manipulated or reduced-- because there is nothing to reduce. This explaination may just be re-stating what other's have already said in this forum, but I'd like to offer another idea relating to your post,

According to the law of universal gravitation, as I understand it, every object in the universe exerts a gravitational force on every other object. So we could assume that the gravitational field of a mass is emited for an indefinite length into outer space. This would be a similar concept to your infinite wheel, where the center of a mass would be the 'hub' of the infinite wheel, and the gravitational field would be the 'spokes' (although I don't think a gravitational field is emited in perfect linear rays the same way spokes extend linearly from a hub). Now; if there was only one mass in the universe, or one 'body'-- let's say it's the earth-- then this body's gravitational field would have nothing to interact with. You could say that this one lone mass is the center of the universe. When you add another mass, or another galaxy of masses, all of the sudden it's as if each body is competing for the possition of ' the center of the universe'. This is what creates the dynamics of the universe-- this competition among the 'masses'. The moral of this story (if there is one) relates to a belief that I have that: matter is in love with itself.

Edited by soulmotion (02/25/05 03:44 PM)

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: soulmotion]
    #3833461 - 02/25/05 02:52 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

with fractals, and this universe, it seems, no matter how small an interval is it can be halved and no matter how big an interval is it could be doubled.

regarding infinity or infinitesimality one can only take up the directions towards these absolutes, and stretch out someplace in-between.


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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3834597 - 02/25/05 07:45 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
with fractals, and this universe, it seems, no matter how small an interval is it can be halved and no matter how big an interval is it could be doubled.




No there is a limit to how small it can get. At least scientists think there is. It's the planck length. Which is 1.6 x 10^-35 m or about 10^-20 times the size of a proton.

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Re: Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: cybrbeast]
    #3834784 - 02/25/05 08:40 PM (19 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

cybrbeast said:
No there is a limit to how small it can get. At least scientists think there is. It's the planck length. Which is 1.6 x 10^-35 m or about 10^-20 times the size of a proton.




I think it'd be more appropriate to say, as far as measurements are concerned, "there is a limit to what modern instrumentation can detect". The most important lesson we can learn from the history of science is-- never to assume that what we know is all that exists. The essense of science is open-mindedness. In the world of science, fact is only tentative (this is a rule which applies equally well to life in general).

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Offlinecybrbeast
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Re: Let's Re-try this one..... =0 (Infinite wheel formula, TAKE #2...) **CLACK** [Re: soulmotion]
    #3835944 - 02/26/05 06:33 AM (19 years, 25 days ago)

No modern instruments in no way can detect a planck length. It's a theoretical limit. There is also planck time, which is the time it takes for a photon to travel the distance of a planck length.
Superstring scientists think there are other dimensions folded up into planck lengths. Which would make them undetectable.

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