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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3824743 - 02/23/05 11:23 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It just a reference and a very good one at that but thats it, it only a reference experience proves best Myc. These are basic skills, you see the casing where theres no shooms? That casing is an uneven casing, it is nearly perfect but no cigar although it is plenty good for me or anyone else here. You are not looking at the whole picture or the fine details of pin initiation and maturation. I grew up with Oss and Oeric before Stamets came along and long before PF (the professor) and have learned much from them all not to mention all the thousands of growers I've met over the years and it's there words and results that really makes this hobby what it is today my friend. Again you can not argue with results!!! Unless you simply like to argue :wink: You have basic reading skills plain and simple pins do not form under a casings surface FYI GL and please keep your mind open to learning new things if your at all serious about this hobby.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineMycelium5150
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: hyphae]
    #3828401 - 02/24/05 06:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

umm


--------------------
Mad skills, you know this!!!

I am here to Myth Bust


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Invisibledobinky
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3828420 - 02/24/05 06:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That book is biased toward the writers opinion. Everyone that gets good results thinks their way is the way.


Think outside the box.


--------------------
Today?s Pig is Tomorrow?s Bacon


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: dobinky]
    #3855296 - 03/02/05 02:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with Mycellium5150's assessment on which casing is overlaid and which is not in the pictures presented. Basically, one wants a minimal amount of mycelium to grow over the top of the casing layer; otherwise, the casing will become less receptive to water and essentially reduce to a two dimensional surface, offering fewer niches for pinhead development.

Regardless of the exact regimen, watering should result in a network of mycelium growing through the bulk of the casing starting thick close to the substrate and becoming progressively thinner and less dense moving toward the surface. The depth of the casing should be no less than 1/2" but no more than 2". I like the magic 1" depth myself, but the exact depth of the casing rather depends on the nutrient density and depth of substrate as well as the vigor of the strain. A higher nutrient density, deeper substrate, or more vigorous strain will provide the momentum needed to make it through a thicker casing. Typically thinner casings can be, and probably should be, wetter than thick ones. For one a thinner casing is easier to penetrate so can be nearly saturated without ill effect. Secondly, a thinner casing has less water capacity so probably should be wetter to provide an adequate water reservoir for the flush. On the other hand, overly wet thick casings are often impenetrable as they suffocate the developing mycelium.

I've noticed that overlay is the latest fad in cubensis growing. I think this fad has shifted the overlay phenomenon from a oddity to nearly a desirable norm on this site because folks started to see very thin casings made of nutritive components like coir consistently overlaid in the pictures floating around. The perception is that the norm is good, but in this case, I disagree. A nutritive substance has no place in a casing layer for cubensis, and in my opinion coir straddles the fence as a nutritive component. As a simple hobbiest, I certainly wouldn?t use it nor would many reputable mycologists like, for example, Stamets who has publicly renounced its usefulness as a substrate component. Such supplemented casings, be it with coir or manure, usually overlay by the second flush and thus reduce total yield in the later flushes. Having said that, an overlaid casing is not doomed for failure. In fact I?ve seen very well overlaid casings produce impressive first flushes, but keep in mind that cubensis also fruits impressively in the first flush even without a casing (take a look at some of the straw log pictures around here). The beauty of a proper casing lies in the yield of the later flushes, which experience has shown me yield far more than any uncased substrate.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/02/05 02:40 AM)


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3855368 - 03/02/05 02:51 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

As an addition to my last post, I also want to point out that if your growing chamber is 100% relative humidity, as almost all simple chambers will be, you are better off with an overlaid thin casing. Why? Because otherwise you'll get green mold almost certainly.

I am sorry to say that in the old days I introduced the ShroomGod Humidifier technique which has become very popular. While it doesn't actually have a mist problem like the ultrasonics do--an over misting problem is totally deadly with a casing--I must admit that without venting in a little dry air into the chamber, even a cool mist will drive the chamber to 100% almost instantly. The result will likely be green mold on the casing by the third flush unless you overlay the casing. Sorry but it's a little known truth. You should strive for 90% humidity after first flush pins are set. Only if you can hit those lower humidities should you use a proper casing.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/02/05 02:56 AM)


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3855459 - 03/02/05 03:20 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Contamination, like green mold, in the casing in a growth chamber pegged at 100% humidity is a bad thing because it progresses very fast. Under those conditions, there is practically no use in keeping it around. As seen in bold the kit directions say, "Do not cover the top of the kit to prevent the kit from drying out". If you aren't covering it, it isn't being subject to 100% relative humidity unless you live in a rainforest. Under those lower humidity conditions, the mold would not grow very quickly, and a few more mushrooms would probably have time to develop.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3864587 - 03/03/05 09:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

wow!! Look!! As casing that isnt overlayed.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: tahoe]
    #3865354 - 03/04/05 12:01 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Tahoe, that's cool but excuse my crassness but I got to ask this: where's the beef? More soil surface there than shrooms; it should be the other way around.


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Invisibletahoe
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3865370 - 03/04/05 12:04 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

its all about getting it to pin correctly now.


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


Teh=The

I need to proofread


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: tahoe]
    #3865408 - 03/04/05 12:14 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

My all-time best tray had lots of mycellium poking up vertically at the surface. It has no mycellium running horizontally at the surface. It was a birdseed tray cased. The first flush so dense that when I took the shrooms off the top, there wasn't much surface! I never saw a tray like that. Back in those days, I wasn't keeping strains, but I wish I had cloned those puppies. They were freaky. The only pictures I know that compare are those, ironically, posted in this thread of the indoor greenhouse. Although that particular tray was even more dense than that picture.


Edited by ShroomGod (03/04/05 12:15 AM)


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3865949 - 03/04/05 02:44 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

When I have a casing that looks like this right before pinning:

It looks like this when pinning:

And then it comes up like this:


As far as later flushes...the mycelium in the above casing doesnt become hardened, since its perfectly colonized (IMO), so after harvesting, you just patch it up and it come like this:



But hey, you keep busting your "myths" er whatever you feel your doing...personally I think its just being a pain in the ass to try and rile people up.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3865995 - 03/04/05 02:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, am I supposed to be impressed now? The trays look decent. You might want to pick the mushrooms next time before they are overly mature. At any rate, I am glad overlaid casings work so well for you. I'll post some pictures to show you how it's done a little later.


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OfflineShroomGod
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3866016 - 03/04/05 03:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

scatmanrav, I just had to laugh at your signature "Yeah I know I can be a dick..." and then you call me a pain in the ass. What more can I say?


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: ShroomGod]
    #3866041 - 03/04/05 03:10 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Sorry that comment was directed to mycelium and his "myth busting", not you. But no, that wasnt to impress you. It was to show people another casing through its life and see what it gets them. Plenty of people would be happy with casings as I do them. I get asked how I do things, so I tell people how I do things.

I do not see them as being overly mature at all. Still only takes a gram to knock your socks off. AND I dried them with a dehydrator. I'm jsut a crazy son of a bitch.

Please show me how its done. Keep it mind, thats just straight whole grain, not bulk. But post. Show me how its done. He'll those casings were my 2nd month of growing, I should sure as hell hope you can show me something better. Teach me how to fix my problems. I'm only getting 40 grams per flush on a quart of grain. How much should I be getting?


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


Edited by scatmanrav (03/04/05 03:37 AM)


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3866088 - 03/04/05 03:26 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Wait,.....40g's Wet or dry?...


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #3866113 - 03/04/05 03:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Dry of course. I dont always get 40 grams on my flushes  :sad: Usually just first and second and sometimes even those are only like 25-35. But I still havent bothered concentrating on one strain, which when I do will help more constant results.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3866736 - 03/04/05 08:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I can't believe this thread is still going! scat we in the know know those who don't don't. Let the knowitall's have there time that will just give us more time to harvest right? Right! :wink: LOL

You other guys need to that a much closer look at what is actually happening during the pinning process. GL guys


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"


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OfflineKaptKid
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: hyphae]
    #3866889 - 03/04/05 10:10 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
I can't believe this thread is still going! scat we in the know know those who don't don't. Let the knowitall's have there time that will just give us more time to harvest right? Right! :wink: LOL

You other guys need to that a much closer look at what is actually happening during the pinning process. GL guys





What^^^^ he said.  .....

Where or these's pic's..

:sun:


--------------------
Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.


:sun:


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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: hyphae]
    #3867121 - 03/04/05 11:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

hyphae said:
I can't believe this thread is still going! scat we in the know know those who don't don't. Let the knowitall's have there time that will just give us more time to harvest right? Right! :wink: LOL

You other guys need to that a much closer look at what is actually happening during the pinning process. GL guys




I guess. I have a hard time letting things go though. Thats why I come across as a dick often. It's cool though...maybesomeone who searches and stumbles across this thread may come to different conclusions because of my posts, who knows. Doesnt really matter to me. Typings easy. So is posting pictures. I can sit here and smoke my sweettooth just posting in one post all day long :smile:

Now thats a fun and exciting day. :smile: I got nothing to harvest right now though..my flow got interupted switching the closet from rye to bulk.


--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineShroomGod
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Registered: 02/18/99
Posts: 158
Last seen: 7 years, 2 days
Re: Casing Water Content Revisited!!! Interesting article. Pics!!! [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3867189 - 03/04/05 12:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

scatmanrav, if you are geting thoe yields, then do what you are doing. Maybe this sort of casing penetration, what mycologists used to term "overlay" is better for cubensis with certain types of growth chambers. Who knows. We are all learing here. I made up a few teks. I am no expert on this stuff. Even "experts" are learning all the time an changing their minds.

Let me give you an example. How many people on here are really forcing their fruiting chamber down to the Mushroom Cultivator's "85-92%"? Almost no one. Almost every growth chamber here is pegged at 100%, yet we see all sorts of good trays and straw logs on the picture site. If I said you are growing at too high of humidity, it would be true if I used those guidelines. But when the yields are good, then who cares? Probably there are more than one way to skin a cat.

The best yield I have achieved was 11 grams dry (about 44 wet) per half pint over the course of two huge flushes. By the third flush the top was so damaged that only a few pins formed. If I scale up to quart, that would be 44 grams dry per quart. That was on birdseed using the ecudorian strain. The casing was very well penetrated but not quite as overlaid as the one in your picture. The first flush was about 60% of the yield. I do not typically achieve that high of yield, especially using B+ which is my prefered strain anymore because I like the trip.


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