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Offlinesancho
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my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction!
    #3818061 - 02/22/05 07:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

wheww. i am quite excited. my cat just finished extracting mescalito from 3 feet of san pedro.

now he just has to dry this huge amount of water...he made about 5 passes with acidic water on the nonpolar/mescaline solution.

but he has a question. he accidentaly used WAY too much acid. by way too much acid, he probably diluted muratic acid (30% HCL acid) with water in about a ratio of 1:15. he then used half a cup of the acid/water, found that the ph of the water to be one, added distilled water, and seperated the layers. after every pull, he added about a tablespoon of the acid solution.

so now he wants to know if the acid will hurt the mescaline. he knows that adding redonkulous amounts of NaOH will not, but is acid different? so basically, did he screw up the final project or will all the acid evaporate?  :confused:

what a sneaky cat!

:grin: :grin: :grin:


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3818172 - 02/22/05 07:38 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My parakeet had the same trouble. In the end he ended up with much less product than he would have expected, and to top it off it smelled and tasted VERY salty.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinesancho
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: dblaney]
    #3818451 - 02/22/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

but did it work, and by that i mean did the mescaline have the desired effects? i kinda like salt, and by salt i mean mescaline salt!

:crazy2: :crazy2: :crazy2:

from what i understand, HCL and NaOh will always cancel each other out and produce NaCl and water. so shouldnt all extracts with those two chemicals contain salt?

how much less? i have 3 feet of cactus and expect around 1000 mg of mescaline ( i calcuated that because some god at nansnook extracted 2100mg of white crystal from 4 feet! and i am no cactus god.)

could it be from something else? was it your first time extracting?

i will post pictures when all the water is gone


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3818576 - 02/22/05 08:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, I think that's why my parakeet's product smelled so much like salt. I have no idea on efficacy, as I decided to pitch the failed extraction. I'm sure my parakeet is doing something wrong in the extraction, so don't think that just because it failed for him it would do so for you. The sad part is this was my parakeet's third or fourth attempt at mesc.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinesancho
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: dblaney]
    #3818594 - 02/22/05 08:49 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

my cat has extracted redonkulous amounts of dmt before, so he has the lab skillz down.

if this works and you want to im/send my cat a message (ill have to teach him to type...) about what went wrong, he would be glad to help ya as much as he can!

anybody else?


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Offlineesin
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3818779 - 02/22/05 09:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

1:15 is ridiculously strong. I think you'll be alright though. Hopefully.
If you have good cactus there it is possible that you get more than a gram.

Just please evaporate that stuff in a well vented area as it is definitely going to release quite a lot of HCl gas. Especially in the last stages of evaporation.

Quote:

from what i understand, HCL and NaOh will always cancel each other out and produce NaCl and water. so shouldnt all extracts with those two chemicals contain salt?





They will only contain trace amounts of it if done right.
There should never be any lye in your final water-HCl-mesc solution.

As long as you salt out from NPS *alone* (not even a single visible polar drop in it) your mescaline will not contain any significant amounts of salt.
If you let even a drop of basic solution or emulsion in it and add HCl than your product will probably be very noticeably contaminated with NaCl.

--

Dblaney18 i suspect your low yield was the result of weak cactus or ineficient extraction. If the acid had destroyed the mescaline you'd still have LOTS of inactive byproducts. HCl wouldn't make the alkaloids simply vanish (or turn them to NaCl for that matter) :wink:

The salt was probably the result of a small amount of basic solution that may have accidentaly slipped into your xylene. It only takes a *little bit* of basic solution to create big amounts of salt IME.

In my extraction i had one of the last passes heavily contamed with NaCl and the culprit was no more than a couple drops of NaOH saturated cactus tea i didn't bother to remove as i wasn't expecting much from that pass.

Did you bioassay your salty yield at all?

--

To all planning to do a/b on cactus, it may prove very beneficial to salt out and evaporate each pass at a time. If you mess up one of the passes you'll at least not mess up your entire extraction.
Plus you'll know exactly when your basic cactus tea is spent, which is cool.

Also HCl is mighty damn potent. I bet half a dozen drops on a quart of dH2O would be enough for this purpose. Foaf @ the Nook does recommend a little more in his tek though.

If i remember well i used 0,5ml 30% HCl to 250ml dH2O or something close, to very good results (~750mg out of 750g fresh pedro - not counting the contaminated pass which is like 100 or so milligrams but from the taste of it it should be mostly table salt).


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! *DELETED* [Re: esin]
    #3818825 - 02/22/05 09:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by dblaney18

Reason for deletion: Double posted



--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: dblaney]
    #3818838 - 02/22/05 09:32 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

esin said:
Did you bioassay your salty yield at all?





Unfortunately not; I concluded that it could pose the risk of an excessive strain on my kidneys. That plus the simple lack of good product prompted me to abandon the idea and materials.

I don't doubt I could get it right, but after four failed extractions, I'm growing impatient ( :frown: ).

Do you think that an evaporated acidic tea, or an evaporated alcoholic solution would be more efficient (compared to each other, not an A/B extract.)?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


Edited by dblaney18 (02/22/05 09:32 PM)


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Offlineesin
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: dblaney]
    #3818884 - 02/22/05 09:39 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Did your parakeet follow a specific tek or did he experiment around?

EDIT: Godamnit i'm too stoned and the shroomery is sooo slow lately. When i finish posting there's lots of new posts.

Well i'd say a water extract would be more efficient because you can boil and reboil it for hours or PC it and such, but it makes a mess when evap'ed. I heard this mess is very unfriendly to the stomach.
Ethanol may be a little less eficient but as far as i heard one dose of this stuff is only one tablespoon and is doesn't produce much nausea.


Edited by esin (02/22/05 09:47 PM)


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: esin] * 1
    #3818918 - 02/22/05 09:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

A little of both, he first tried essentially the same method of extracting DMT, but to no avail, then tried a slight adaptation of that tek. Then he tried a tek from Nan's Nook, and was left with too much NaCl. He was very frustrated.

Would you say that an evaporated alcohol extraction or an evaporated acidic water extraction would be more efficient, because I don't know how much more my parakeet can take of the failed extractions, plus he's running out of material.

Thanks esin, you've always been nothing but help. If I hadn't already rated you, I would rate you 20 shrooms.

:smile:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleRudiger420
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3819229 - 02/22/05 10:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

What tek are you using? Sound like QT dmt extraction than a mescaline extraction. Doesn't mesc. extraction require benzene? You can get that? Where? How Much? Wouldn't be just easyer to dry out skins and crush up. Then put powder into capsules and eat? Wouldn't that work? Thanks Rudiger420


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OfflineLegoulash
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: Rudiger420]
    #3819370 - 02/22/05 11:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

But with his extraction he wont get the stomach discomfort.. Just strait bliss.


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Offlineneuro
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3819763 - 02/23/05 12:04 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This is why I will preach like the gospel that people make up standardized solutions before attempting any sort of extraction. Get some vessels (old vinegar bottles even) and make standardized NaOH and HCl solutions, 1M or 2M solutions. That way one will have a good idea about how much volume to titrate their acid or base mixtures.

Too much acid won't hurt your mescaline really unless you boil the hell out of it while there's free protons floating around.

If you titrate your solution, you're gonna have salt in it NaOH+HCl --> H2O + NaCl. If you evaporate off your water you'll be left with both probably some unreacted base or acid plus nacl plus your mescaline, you should isolate out your mescaline (by rebasifying and putting it back in naptha) or crystallizing out the mescaline.


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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: Rudiger420]
    #3821731 - 02/23/05 12:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Neuro i hear ya. I do this with HCl and lye (the latter only for DMT extractions, as a solution would impractically increase the volume of the 'tea' with the amounts of NaOH needed to basify cactus goop).

What i'm not sure is if they used too much as a mistake or just added a big splash "just to make sure" :wink:

Rudiger, benzene is VERY easy to get where i live. I don't use it for any extractions nor do i want any smell of it in my house as it is a relatively potent carcinogen.
Any non polar solvent will do really. The most experienced people i know in this field recommend either xylenes or toluene.


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Offlinesancho
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: esin]
    #3821756 - 02/23/05 12:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

neuro, what is this you speak of?

now, he is no chemist, but would all he have to do is say, add 1 mole of NaOH to 1L of water, and 1 mole of HCL to 1L of water? and then, when basifying, add 250ml of lye water, and when salting, add 250-260 ml of acid water?

will one molecule of HCL "neutralize" one molecule of NaOH?

neuro- will too much HCL destroy the mescaline? he will probably use some method to purify the crystals if he gets any. think he will?

thanks all


--------------------
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Invisiblegdman
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3821816 - 02/23/05 01:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Making standardized solutions is easy as cake, like you said, take a known concerntration of HCl solution (you will never handle HCl gas, heh, wear gloves and googles too) and dilute to your needs, 1-2M is good. You can do the calculations, and remember ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER, never add water to acid. Then take your base (NaOH, molar mass 40g) add it to one L of water to make a 1M solution, etc.


HCl (aq) + NaOH (aq) ----> NaCl (aq) + H2O (l)

basicly: H+ + OH- ---> H2O


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3821834 - 02/23/05 01:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

If you want to test the concentration of your solution, you can perform a titration, it's easy. You take an amount of an acid (or base) with a chemical pH indicator and slowly add the base (or acid, if your using a base) until the solution is neutral. Then you figure out how much you needed to neutralize the solution. Do your calcs and there you go. A burret would make this easier, though i guess you can do it without one, just keep track of the amount of solution your adding.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve


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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: sancho]
    #3821848 - 02/23/05 01:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

For plant extractions in which the yield is variable it is difficult to exactly titrate because you'd have to add 1 mole of HCl to neutralize 1 mole of NaOH, and than just enough to ionize the *unknown* amount of alkaloids you're after.

I thought he meant just making the solutions and use them to acidify/basify. If you'd add too much acid, you could just add a known amount of base solution to get it in the right point (equal amount if you would want to completely neutralize).

But this would create NaCl, which would require you to do another a/b on that stuff. Which could still give you the same salting problem. So i guess i didn't get Neuro's point  :confused:

This problem is why noobs should use HCl (or any other 'volatile' acid) to salt mesc. If you use too much it'll just evaporate.


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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: esin]
    #3822975 - 02/23/05 05:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Someone remind me to write a detailed reponse to this when i'm not sitting in a crowded eatery place trying to kill time, each time i try to write a coherent response i get lost in what i'm writing... i've already killed too much time aynway and don't have time to finish or get my point across.


-neuro


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OfflineWoland
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Re: my cat just finished his first mescaline extraction! [Re: neuro]
    #3823228 - 02/23/05 06:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

what? cats? parakeets? mescaline?
I'm so confused.... :oogle:


--------------------
"It's bad enough that you sell your waking life for minimum wage, but now they get your dreams for free."


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