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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Wild Bird Seed

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Invisibleactionshroom
RookieMycologist

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 210
WBS Failure
    #3817504 - 02/22/05 05:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This was my first time using WBS. Four days ago I inoculated 7 quart jars of WBS. I had pressure cooked them each for 90 mins at 15 psi. After four days I see no signs of mycelium grow. Each jar was covered with Tyvek and then polyfil and then coffee filter. There is a 'fermenting' type smell coming from the jars. I allowed the WBS to soak for 11-12 hours.

Any ideas or suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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Invisibledobinky
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3817515 - 02/22/05 05:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

tyvek then polyfill? not understanding this, but you only need one or the other really.


--------------------
Today?s Pig is Tomorrow?s Bacon


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OfflineCiv
Pinning
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3817544 - 02/22/05 05:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This was my first time using WBS. Four days ago I inoculated 7 quart jars of WBS. I had pressure cooked them each for 90 mins at 15 psi. After four days I see no signs of mycelium grow. Each jar was covered with Tyvek and then polyfil and then coffee filter. There is a 'fermenting' type smell coming from the jars. I allowed the WBS to soak for 11-12 hours.





I soak for 24 hours to make sure as much endospores are germinated as possible w/o loss of the grains integrity and water holding abilities.

Did you simmer after you soaked?

Make sure your 'tripple' filter setup isn't to tight also. They need to breathe gently. If its fermenting then its pretty close to air tight is why I ask.


--------------------
"...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender.
So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..."  -Agar


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Invisibleactionshroom
RookieMycologist

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 210
Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3817588 - 02/22/05 05:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I put the Tyvek filter down and then I put the metal lid on top of that (two holes drilled in the lid with polyfill). I screwed down everything tight and then but one layer of coffee filter on top.

I simmered the WBS for 40 mins.

In order for the WBS to emit such a smell wouldn't there have to be a contaminant in the jars?

Do you think the spores are going to germinate?

Should I loosen the lids?

Thank you.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3817620 - 02/22/05 05:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

it could be that you arent getting the gas exchange you're needing, try removing the polyfil and coffee filter and wait a few more days.


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OfflineSoK
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #3817698 - 02/22/05 06:06 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

could be bacterial infection ?? had a few quarts of bacterial contams in my first wbs batch


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InvisiblePrisoner#1M
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: SoK]
    #3817720 - 02/22/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

yes, it's a possibility, generaly it's attributed to excessive moisture
and they normaly develop a greasy look


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Invisibledog
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3817758 - 02/22/05 06:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

As ^^ said, greasy looking grains and a fermented smell are indications of bacterial contamination. You are choking your jars by using so much filtration. Use Tyvek OR polyfill; not both. I'd scrap the coffee filter too. In order for mycelium to grow faster than contams it has to be able to breathe.


--------------------


Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.


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Invisibleactionshroom
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WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3818431 - 02/22/05 08:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Does this mean that the jar are unsalvagable?

If I use only Tyvek OR polyfill, not both, isn't there a MUCH greater chance of contam?

Also, my temps fluctuate from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. Could this play a roll in my problem?

Am I just being too impatient?

Thanks.


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Invisibleactionshroom
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WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3818671 - 02/22/05 09:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone?


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Invisibledog
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3818733 - 02/22/05 09:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Does this mean that the jar are unsalvagable?




If they have bacterial contamination then yes; they are lost.

Quote:

If I use only Tyvek OR polyfill, not both, isn't there a MUCH greater chance of contam?




I repeat: either one alone is sufficient filtration. Using both is overkill and chokes the jars. Some air exchange is required.

Quote:

Also, my temps fluctuate from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. Could this play a roll in my problem?




Fluctuating temperatures will slow mycelial growth and widen the window of opportunity for contamination. Incubate at a constant 85oF or as close as possible.


--------------------


Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.


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Invisibleactionshroom
RookieMycologist

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 210
WBS Failure [Re: dog]
    #3818754 - 02/22/05 09:17 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks dog!

There is no visual evidence to suggest bacterial contamination, there is just an somewhat unpleasant smell. Could it be possible that this is just the normal smell of the WBS after pressure cooking? How much longer should I wait before tossing the jars?

Thanks.


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OfflineSoK
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: dog]
    #3818766 - 02/22/05 09:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

actionshrooms, trying using just the tyvek filter inside the ring seal of the jar, and then, after nocing (when the hole is open because of the needle) loosely rubberband a coffee filter over the lid... it'll stop airborns from landing in the small hole, but will still allow air to escape


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Invisibleactionshroom
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WBS Failure [Re: SoK]
    #3818782 - 02/22/05 09:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I was wondering how this could be accomplished. Do you think this works better than JUST polyfill?


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OfflineSoK
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3818797 - 02/22/05 09:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

well if u have polyfill, i would just put one hole in the center of my lids, polyfill, have a cotton ball soaked in alcy, insert the needle, and pull it back out and cover with the alcy ball

there is a tek somewhere here that describes this perfectly w/ pics, search for WBS for the entire site, it will come up, GL


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Invisibledog
straw dog

Registered: 06/20/02
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Loc: Route 66
Re: WBS Failure [Re: actionshroom]
    #3818799 - 02/22/05 09:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The smell of bacteria is umistakable; kind of a stale beer, vinegary, sweaty feet smell.

If your jars don't stink then give them another week.


--------------------


Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.


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OfflineMycelium5150
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: dog]
    #3819158 - 02/22/05 10:41 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

you cooked way too long, no need to soak- most here do not. if they contamed it was your syringe.


--------------------
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I am here to Myth Bust


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InvisibleTaskenti
MadPsycho
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Registered: 12/09/04
Posts: 2,102
Re: WBS Failure [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3819453 - 02/22/05 11:24 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Mycelium5150 said:
you cooked way too long, no need to soak- most here do not. if they contamed it was your syringe.





No need to soak WBS?!?!?! that is one of the STUPIDEST things I have heard on this site...what the hell dude??!?!
actionshroom....don't listen to this guy.
You HAVE to soak to let the endospores germinate so you can KILL them..


--------------------
CIVIC IS Mycoshack!! Be careful trading with him!!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/5686915/page/0/vc/1


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InvisibleTaskenti
MadPsycho
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: dog]
    #3819474 - 02/22/05 11:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

@ dog

Hey if you only use polyfil and not tyvek, wouldn't your polyfil get wet on the inside of the jars tho?


--------------------
CIVIC IS Mycoshack!! Be careful trading with him!!
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/5686915/page/0/vc/1


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OfflineMycelium5150
Check theDate!!!!
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Re: WBS Failure [Re: Taskenti]
    #3819551 - 02/22/05 11:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bruceallen said:
Quote:

Mycelium5150 said:
you cooked way too long, no need to soak- most here do not. if they contamed it was your syringe.





No need to soak WBS?!?!?! that is one of the STUPIDEST things I have heard on this site...what the hell dude??!?!




Anno and Agar dont soak! I guess they are stupid


--------------------
Mad skills, you know this!!!

I am here to Myth Bust


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Agar, Wild Bird Seed

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