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InvisibleSinbad
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Near Enemies
    #3817458 - 02/22/05 05:20 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Near enemies are the sorts of mind states we dwell in most of the time. Where there is pure mindfulness and freedom from grasping, we experience the arising of a range of pure emotional states. The easiest one to understand is joy. Joy is a very light, sparkling experience which comes into the mind which relates to something internal or external without grasping.

For example, we get up one morning and look out the window at a beautiful sunrise. The common experience within the human mind is to experience joy in relation to that sunrise. That joy arises from a level of consciousness which is not involved with egocentric grasping. So it is experience without an experience. It usually lasts for only a fraction of an instant. That is a pure state.

Within an instant, however, consciousness has conducted its surveillance, recognized, evaluated, decided that this is what it wants and then grasped. That is the moment when pure joy is lost. The moment the egocentric sense appropriates joy. The there is no joy left. What we have is the near enemy instead, which is excitement.

This is what we are doing continuously in life. There is a moment of pure love. Then it is appropriated and it becomes possessive love. My love. My object. We can see this very often in a relationship. Two people meet and get on really well. There is then a short period, depending on the level of their grasping, where there may be a joyful experience of one anothers company. But after a while that condition is subverted and it becomes territorial: my partner. That is near enemy. There is no more joy left. It is then a constant maneuvering of possessiveness,

When we train in mindfulness ans understand observer consciousness and the activity of the mind, what begins to happen is we lose the sense of an observer. there is just a process of observing without the sense of a being who observes. When mindfulness is stable we will start freeing ourselves from the near enemies because we will see the grasping arising.


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Edited by Sinbad (02/22/05 06:33 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3817602 - 02/22/05 05:48 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

you are very close on this

(not incluiding spelling and grammar - me too same, but the rod joke was not called for)

moi?
entanglement is work - I'm a contractor - I ty to charge if possible.


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3821325 - 02/23/05 10:41 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I found the rod joke most comical, im sorry that you couldnt see the humour  :tongue:

I most certainly got caught up by the near enemy of excitement today, as it started to snow outside earlier.  :grin:


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Edited by Sinbad (02/23/05 11:06 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821359 - 02/23/05 10:57 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i didn't say it wasn't funny
i often enjoy a few flakes
even seem to attract them


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3821385 - 02/23/05 11:06 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

an interesting concept, to be sure. I agree. Do you think its possible to extend these initial periods of purity through chemicals? More importantly, if so is this a blessing, or a curse that will make it more difficult to reach the level of understanding you personally need to achieve this without chemicals?


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...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821410 - 02/23/05 11:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, in short im not sure, minfulness is definelty the key, but whether taking chemicals can help us to be more mindfull or not, is certainly debatable.

I have the feeling that any circumstance which can help us to be more mindful and aware is a plus, but genrally most people who indulge in chemicals, get caught up in the excitement of the experiences they produce. If you can remain in a state of pure observation without concept, then its certainly possible.

However i would not adivse the use of chemicals for this kind of practice, simple mindfulness is always the best medicine, as the effects of chemicals wear off, but with practice mindfulness only increases with time.


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821444 - 02/23/05 11:23 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Well, in short im not sure, minfulness is definelty the key, but whether taking chemicals can help us to be more mindfull or not, is certainly debatable.

I have the feeling that any circumstance which can help us to be more mindful and aware is a plus, but genrally most people who indulge in chemicals, get caught up in the excitement of the experiences they produce. If you can remain in a state of pure observation without concept, then its certainly possible.

But i would not adivse the use of chemicals for this kind of practice, simple mindfullness is always the best medicine, as the effects of chemicals wear off, but with practice mindfulness only increases with time.




I agree that the use of chemicals to achieve understanding or to heighten one's perception for practical purposes such as improvement of one's live often leads to dependance, and to insult the sanctity and usefulness of some chemicals by using them as a crutch is wrong.

What if a completely mindless experience is what it takes to become mindful? I assume when you say to be mindful you mean to be mindful of the activity of our own mind, on all of its levels of consciousness, perception, and concept. I believe this is egocentric in nature, and one must step out of the ego to achieve this, without years of study and meditation from an early age. Lets say, for this purpose, that I am in the early stages of adult life, perhaps in my twenties, am heavily indoctrinated and trained with common social concepts and ideas, and this is what my ego centers on. Perhaps an intense trip where the ego is lost entirely, and the board is wiped clean, is what it would take for me to realize there is even anything to be mindful of?


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821501 - 02/23/05 11:39 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

CrazyBusiness said:
Lets say, for this purpose, that I am in the early stages of adult life, perhaps in my twenties, am heavily indoctrinated and trained with common social concepts and ideas, and this is what my ego centers on. Perhaps an intense trip where the ego is lost entirely, and the board is wiped clean, is what it would take for me to realize there is even anything to be mindful of?




OMG, replace 'in my twenties' with 'in my late teens' and thats my story  :smile:

Its quite common if you meet many western Buddhist and Hindu practitioners, that they will claim to have had similar experiences with drugs before becoming spiritual practitioners. However with me there was a fine line between losing my ego, and losing my sanity, as everything i thought 'I' was, was discovered to be a lie, that i had conditioned myself to believe, it was a close call to say the least.

With regard to mindfulness, after continual practice, the observer, self, or ego is seen as unreal, an illusion and a totally limited concept of who we are. I do not think drugs are a reliable source for spiritual realizations, but they can be particulalry good at shocking a dosile, socially condtioned person into seeing things outside of their usual perspective, and possibly discovering hidden capacites and aspects of their minds.

However to realize our true potential, drugs are not required, nor would i advise their use, as they have the potential to be extremely harmful as well as beneficial depending on the individual and the substance used

Simple Mindfulness is always possible and always beneficial for all.

If you have a body, speech and mind, then the condtion of these three aspects is what you can be mindful of. If you dont have them then you're dead, and dont have to worry about such things, for a while at least.  :grin:

Be relaxed but aware of your thoughts and emotions, as well as your actions in life to the best of your ability, everyone can do this, and its so simple.  :wink: :sun:


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Edited by Sinbad (02/23/05 11:51 AM)


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821556 - 02/23/05 11:55 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

agreed.

If one were to realize that a major spiritual change is required in their life, and thought that buddhism was something they would like to get involved with, where would they go to study and learn, and meet experienced practitioners? I am interested in learning more about it, and have reached the point where I feel personal experience, whether shared by others or experienced myself, will be more beneficial than the study of books.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: CrazyBusiness]
    #3821593 - 02/23/05 12:05 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Well, it depends whereabouts one is. Im sure there are many Buddhist teachers, groups and practitioners around, one just has to look. Id suggest doing some google searches. One has to find what best fits ones own condition, there are many forms of Buddhism, and to say that any one is better than another would be a mistake, as it depends soley on the condtion of the indvidual. Reading is helpful for discovering what one feels most drawn too.

But i could PM you if it is you who is interested, about what teachers and practice groups i know of that are reasonable.  :grin:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821598 - 02/23/05 12:07 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

good job for late teens


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InvisibleSinbad
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: redgreenvines]
    #3821627 - 02/23/05 12:14 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I was very lucky. I was quite a rebellious wildchild in my early to mid teens, i consider myself very fortunate to be alive, the events of my late teens however saved my life and changed me deeply as a person.

Up until then i was walking the fine of the razors edge between complete madness and basic sanity.


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OfflineCrazyBusiness
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Re: Near Enemies [Re: Sinbad]
    #3821684 - 02/23/05 12:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Sinbad said:
Well, it depends whereabouts one is. Im sure there are many Buddhist teachers, groups and practitioners around, one just has to look. Id suggest doing some google searches. One has to find what best fits ones own condition, there are many forms of Buddhism, and to say that any one is better than another would be a mistake, as it depends soley on the condtion of the indvidual. Reading is helpful for discovering what one feels most drawn too.

But i could PM you if it is you who is interested, about what teachers and practice groups i know of that are reasonable.  :grin:




it is me, I would appreciate that, and I have read extensively. I dont discredit reading at all, I just feel there's more to be learned in person in some cases.


--------------------
...in my opinion

Life's too short, man.. Life's too short. Dont hate me, and I wont put space between us. Dont lie to me, and I wont dislike you. Keep an open mind, and I'll love you.

My advice of the week(do this, you'll like it): listen to Mahogany Rush.

Representing Beatiful British Columbian classic dank. Just think, Columbia for coke, British Columbia for buds. truth


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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