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OfflineTheProdigy
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Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms?
    #3816722 - 02/22/05 02:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

So I started asking myself this question a couple of days ago... here's my thoughts on the topic. I've read and heard from many places that it is a poison, but why would a poison do no harm to you, and make you feel good? That didn't make sense to me, so I'm thinking it's not a poison at all.

My guess is that the psilocybin is to encourage animals to ingest the mushrooms, and in their defication, spread their spores to grow them in more places, and reproduce.

I couldn't find any research pointing to this as being the reason as to why it is present in these fungi, but if anyone has found any research articles or hypotheses that are similar to that, I'd be interested in reading them.

Anyone agree/disagree with me?

-The Prodigy


--------------------

If you haven't gone to http://www.boohbah.com while you are tripping... it's a must.


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OfflineSilent_Echo
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: TheProdigy]
    #3816767 - 02/22/05 02:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

makes a good point, maybe not to spread their spores in their "deification" but maybe another purpose that is unknown....but good logical thinking!  :thumbup: :grin: :mushroom2: :sun:
i would also like to know why this chemical is branded a "poison" but doesn't harm you...is it just a poison because it makes you hallucinate?


--------------------
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves.
-Bill Hicks (R.I.P)


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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: TheProdigy]
    #3816803 - 02/22/05 02:31 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I've thought about that before and I've never found a good answer.

How do you know it makes animals feel good?

It could be a by product or some other chemical function that has nothing to do with spreading the spores or protecting the mushroom.


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: TheProdigy]
    #3816841 - 02/22/05 02:43 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I wouldn't consider it a poison.

If you believe water to be a poison then you could perhaps consider psilocybin to be a poison... but I think that's just stupid.


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Offlineesin
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Annom]
    #3816885 - 02/22/05 02:58 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

In a meal sized dose it would make any unsuspecting human go through awfully BAD times and never want to look at said mushrooms again. Don't know if this is the case with other animals.

Now a couple of not too big mushrooms would produce a warm kind of pleasant body high...

No one really knows if it is a defense mechanism, a propagation mechanism (like sweet plant fruits), or just an evolutionary fluke.

Terence Mckenna seems to think it is a propagation mechanism directed specifically to humans since humans have plenty of domesticated cattle producing lots of mushroom substrate (see Food of The Gods). He goes as far as calling it a synergy.

The poppy case is more intriguing. They produce substances that mimic endogenous opioids, producing euphoria, warmth and an all over damn good feeling with no chance of bad trips if any mamal consumes small amounts. However they will kill anything that dares eating large amounts of it.
Means of defense or incentive to propagation? Or both?


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: esin]
    #3816904 - 02/22/05 03:04 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

esin said:
No one really knows if it is a defense mechanism, a propagation mechanism (like sweet plant fruits), or just an evolutionary fluke.





Evolutionary fluke? No chance. There is definately something too deep for us to understand in this miracle called life.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


Edited by Ginseng1 (02/22/05 03:05 PM)


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OfflineBal0n
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Ginseng1]
    #3817002 - 02/22/05 03:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think it's a poison. As esin already mentioned, an animal who ate the mushroom without knowing it's psychoactive effects, the animal will be terrified and unable to defend himself..


--------------------
"A human being is part of a whole, called by us the 'Universe' - a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something seperated from the rest - a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
- Albert Einstein


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OfflineTheProdigy
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Bal0n]
    #3817129 - 02/22/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm... an animal wouldn't necessarily be terrified.  Keep in mind a lot of stuff that gives people bad trips is things perpetuated by our society.  As far as it being a poison in incapacitating animals goes... not so sure about that one.  Deer will readily eat amanitas, so why would this be much different?  I know that some animals like to feel altered states, such as cats and catnip, for example.

My guess still remains the same on this one.  :confused:


--------------------

If you haven't gone to http://www.boohbah.com while you are tripping... it's a must.


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Offlinetomas
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: TheProdigy]
    #3817224 - 02/22/05 04:28 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Animals don't like psychedelics. There have been many studies with animals and drugs. Animals (rats, cats and monkeys, for example) self-administrate alcohol, cocaine and opiates. But they don't like psychedelics... once they understand what psychedelics do, they avoid them like hell. I like this, because it separates psychedelics from other drugs and suggests that the psychedelic experience is exclusively human, just like art and religion.

There's only one exception I know of, a study about rhesus monkeys with severe sensory deprivation who voluntarely smoke DMT. Perhaps for these poor monkeys sensory deprivation is even more frightening than DMT.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: tomas]
    #3817339 - 02/22/05 04:51 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

This may fit better in S&P, but it does seem to me that most animals would avoid most psychedelics like the plague. Of course there are exceptions, but in general it would seem like a good defense mechanism.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflinePsiledehysp
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: dblaney]
    #3817807 - 02/22/05 06:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

These are headphones connected on the other side to Gaia. The transmission is being there at all times, but is aviable only to those willing to listen (by eating headphones :P)

This is my personal belief that psilocybin is there for a reason and as Ginsber above said, it has everything to do with miracle of life. And death, actually  :smile:


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung


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OfflineTrainwreck
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Psiledehysp]
    #3818757 - 02/22/05 09:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You gotta remember that active mushrooms are the only natural occurring thing on earth that contains such a chemical. So personally, I think its more or less a gift from whatever created... all this. Maybe not so much a connection to another world, but a little hint of what can be beyond our tiny little lives in this fucked up world. Magic. Unexplainable, incomprehensible magic. Just my two cents :smile:


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Offlinelemon_lw
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Trainwreck]
    #3819078 - 02/22/05 10:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i understand what you are talking about train but wha tabout DMT and salvia? probably more just cant think of them off of the top of my head.


--------------------
In the belly of the Leviathan, one can either despair and perish, or be cheerful and persevere.-Dean Koontz


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OfflineTrainwreck
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: lemon_lw]
    #3819117 - 02/22/05 10:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

True, that would kind of contradict my theory. DMT can be found in a number of plants, while salvia can give equally powerful, yet very different effects as Psilocybin, LSD, Mescaline whatever. So all around the world in various forms you can find powerful psychedelic substances, but I still stand by my theory. Think of it this way, long ago before cars and airplanes and communications. Back when you were stuck where you were born, you might only be exposed to one (maybe a few in some occasions) of these substances. Like those in the jungles and rain forests would find and use mushrooms or DMT, desert dwellers were to use mescaline, and the first group to advance to a high enough scientific level would be blessed to find and use LSD. I see it as everything was placed in certain plants/fungi for a reason, to make sure that psychedelic substances could be found world wide in almost any ecosystem. To make sure no matter what kind of culture you grew up in that you had access to these 'windows'.

I kinda just started ranting on, but you get the idea. I came up with most of this while on mushrooms and cannabis. Stuck with the idea, I like it. There's a reason for everything ya know, and I'm sure its way beyond me and my view of things.


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OfflineKodos
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Trainwreck]
    #3821852 - 02/23/05 01:13 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

if there is a god he put it there for our brains - if there isnt (my persona opinion) then they wanted us to eat them ourselves.

is there any reason that pot has those chemicals? i know the buds are the flowers which get pollinated but does anyone know if the actual thc helps at all with anything?


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Offlinedjd586
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Kodos]
    #3821889 - 02/23/05 01:22 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

No one really knows the exact purpose of psilocybin in mushrooms, but I assure you one thing, it does serve a purpose that was dictated by evolution... that is, it's a trait that is sucessful for the expansion of the species.

I bet if some researcher wanted to find that answer, he wouldn't have to look to long before he found it. The thing is, no ones going to offer a research grant for the purpose of finding the reason why some mushrooms contain the molecule. There are many, many other questions that need to be answered first. Such as the medicinal value.


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OfflineKGB920
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: djd586]
    #3822788 - 02/23/05 04:47 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

so what your sayin is if i eat mushrooms then take a dump outside in nice climatic conditions, more should grow??


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Invisiblegdman
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: KGB920]
    #3822866 - 02/23/05 05:08 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

:lol:, no, they grow from the dung of large herbivores.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
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OfflineGog
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: gdman]
    #3822901 - 02/23/05 05:15 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps all of this logical thinking is a derailment from internal feeling. It is peripheral conscious rumination that separates us from the present. Maybe taking the experience at face value is what is required to truly understand the existence of the mushroom.


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OfflineGog
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Re: Why is psilocybin present in mushrooms? [Re: Gog]
    #3822927 - 02/23/05 05:21 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

*Not that I don't question things obsessively and neurotically. I believe, through my experiences, that mushrooms were put here by Gaia. We are Gaia in her maximum presence. So the mushrooms are our mind.

Insanity, frustration, and de-railment from Gaia are caused by objective thinking. Objectifying causes anguish. This is why I strongly advise not to concoct a huge labyrinth of inane explanations of things that are far beyond our objective thinking. (such as Gaia)


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