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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Pressure Cooker, Rye Grain, Wild Bird Seed

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Offlinefirsttimer101
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Is there nothing I can do???
    #3816315 - 02/22/05 12:33 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Is there anything I can do to prevent moisture from accumulating on the inside of the Mason jar lids and dripping down onto the mycelium?..this is seriously affecting the growth of the mycelium on the surface of the rye. I don't want to have to open the jars to wipe the moisture off, I have enough contamination already I don;t need to open the floodgates! Every time I pick up a jar to check for contams more water drops fall and the next day the mycelium has shrunk away from the water drops. I'm worried that all this work will have been for nothing.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3818201 - 02/22/05 07:42 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)


There shouldn't be that much condensation accumulating in your jars in the first place. What sort of substrate? What sort of air exchange, if any? What are you using to incubate? Is there high humidity in your incubator?


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


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Offlinefirsttimer101
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: VALIS]
    #3818798 - 02/22/05 09:26 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm using rye filled Mason jars. 2/3 cup of rye and 1 cup of water in each jar. The jars are kept in a dark, warm closet dedicated to the project. Heat is an even 80F, the heat is provided by two lamps set in the bottom of the closet (the light is blocked off from the jars). The two lamps provide enough heat to keep the closet at 80F and don't use much electricity at 120W. I figured why waste power using a a 1500W ceramic heater when the lamps will do? Also, the lids are loosened to allow for air exchange and rapid growth. The condensation is just ridiculous, I don't know what to do.


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OfflineEdRosarioKid
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3818891 - 02/22/05 09:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

well ive never done this kind of grow. but im gonna just give advice from what ive read. There should be two holes in your jars. one small hole for inoculation. one larger hole for air circulation. the larger hole should have polyfill in it or a tyvek. this will allow for air circulation. if this is the setup you already have then just tell me to stfu and go away :smile: bye.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3819336 - 02/22/05 11:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

firsttimer101 said:
I'm using rye filled Mason jars. 2/3 cup of rye and 1 cup of water in each jar.




Ok... looks like this is where you went wrong.

The intent is to _first_ thoroughly soak the rye, then to strain, and _then_ to put the rye in jars and inoculate - not just to simply add some measured amount of water:rye and then immediately inoculate into that.

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like you kinda blurred the soaking and the inoculation step together. Or perhaps somehow more water was introduced at some later point.

Is there an amount of water pooled at the bottom?

As far as saving those jars - I'd recommend carefully draining whatever excess water is in them, if any, and then adding an air-exchange of some form like all the pf teks recommend/explain ( as did EdRosarioKid in the post above. ) It would be a better idea to get hold of extra lids first, and modify those, and quickly swap ( after sterilizing, of course ); rather than to do this to each of the existing lids, which even if done quickly one at a time, would expose the substrate to contams... with all that moisture, it's a surprise they're not already hosting some mold. At the very least, prep some tin foil before switching the lids.

The purpose behind modifying your lids correctly is to get that air-exchange up, which should hopefully dehumidify the jars before you loose them entirely.

Another idea would be to do a grain to grain, basically starting over - only using the existing colonized substrate to "spawn" new, properly done, rye jars.

Here's a link you odda check out: rye tek


Good luck bro!


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


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OfflineLengthyFellow
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3819949 - 02/23/05 12:31 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

firsttimer101 said:
The two lamps provide enough heat to keep the closet at 80F and don't use much electricity at 120W. I figured why waste power using a a 1500W ceramic heater when the lamps will do?




A 50W fishtank heater will work just fine...i mean whatever floats your boat but i figure why waste power using 120W lamps when a 50W heater will do?


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OfflineMycelium5150
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: LengthyFellow]
    #3820227 - 02/23/05 01:09 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

water from inside the jars accumulating inside the sterile jar and dripping back down? Am i understanding this correctly? Shake the jar and let it be. It will be fine, its normal


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Offlinefirsttimer101
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: Mycelium5150]
    #3820274 - 02/23/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks a lot for the input, it really is appreciated. As my name would suggest, this is my first grow so I'm learning what works and what doesn't. I've been following the guidelines provided by Oss and Oerik and I keep on finding out that their instructions really aren't all that great..they have caused more than a few problems for me.

My impression is that you added water to the rye, let this soak for 24 hours, then pressure cooked this for 1 hour at 15 psi. Am I suppose to be removing as much water as possible after the soak? Because if I am, that would explain the moisture problem and the relatively high contam rate.

As for air exchange, I've found that loosening the lids has allowed the mycelium to completely permeate the rye so I think I'm going to stick with that technique for now.

If I did screw up with the water, I'll probably just scrap what I have and start over the right way.


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Offlinefirsttimer101
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3820338 - 02/23/05 01:33 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I am going to feel like a ******* idiot if I was supposed to be draining the water all this time...I'm going to torch that book!


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InvisibleMrMaddHatter
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3820367 - 02/23/05 01:40 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Its not the book. The book isn't for people new to the life of a fungus. It might have tried to be, but alot of whats in the book requires pure culture technique, and thats something that takes experience.

If it is your first time growing, might I suggest the PF tek.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3820468 - 02/23/05 02:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

firsttimer101 said:I am going to feel like a ******* idiot if I was supposed to be draining the water all this time...I'm going to torch that book!





#1 - Don't feel like an idiot. You were just following instructions as best you could from what you understood to be a reliable/knowledgable source.

#2 - Torch the book. You will not have been the first person to get frustrated by its techniques and unreliability.

#3 - Use Anno's Simple PF Tek. Read more shroomery.


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


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Offlinefirsttimer101
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: VALIS]
    #3820566 - 02/23/05 02:25 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Thanks a lot for the help. I just wish that they had bothered to correct the mistakes in that book, I wouldn't care if they charged twice as much for the new version, the mistakes are too costly in terms of time and effort. As for Anno's Tek, Anno's helped me before and I'd trust his info over any damn book at this point, however, I bought a ton of rye grain because I got a good deal on 100Ib. bags of organic rye grain and would like to stick to roughly the same plan that's outlined in the book. I don't want to have to start purchasing new materials, I need all the money I've got right now for tuition.

My understanding then is that I have to soak the rye in water for approx. 24 hours, then drain as much water as possible from the jars, then pressure cook what's left.

Thanks again for the help.


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: firsttimer101]
    #3820753 - 02/23/05 03:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

firsttimer101 said:As for Anno's Tek, Anno's helped me before and I'd trust his info over any damn book at this point, however, I bought a ton of rye grain because I got a good deal on 100Ib. bags of organic rye grain and would like to stick to roughly the same plan that's outlined in the book. I don't want to have to start purchasing new materials, I need all the money I've got right now for tuition.




Discard MMGG, go mostly by Anno's tek - just substitute the existing materials that you've already invested in where necessary/appropriate with the proper Teks as can be found here on the shroomery.


Quote:

My understanding then is that I have to soak the rye in water for approx. 24 hours, then drain as much water as possible from the jars, then pressure cook what's left.




Yep. You'd probably do best by straining the soaked rye out of the jars - don't try to just simply poor out the water from each jar. You could also just measure out the rye, and throw it all into a large pot to do the soaking, then strain, then put into jars, then pressure cook.

I would definitely implement the inoculation hole(s) and air-exchange hole in your lids though, instead of keeping the lids loosened.


Beers!


--------------------
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Offlinescatmanrav
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: VALIS]
    #3821943 - 02/23/05 01:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I dont know what everyones getting down on you about adding water first. Its funny because the same person that says "oh yeah you dont just add the correct water to the jar and PC" are giving you links to the PF Tek for simple minds by Anno, who prepares jars the same way as you did, 100ml of rye to 100ml of water and put both into each jar, then just PC it as is WITHOUT draining the water. I believe you should have put a full cup of rye to a jar though with as much water as you added.

This method will vary depending on the type and brand of whole grains you use (like millet or rye or WBS or popcorn ect) since each grain (and even the same types of grain and different brands) will hold differing amounts of water.

Thats one method you can do and the book is not 'incorrect' in its method, its just different then what people are used to. Just soaking the grain for 24 hours, then straining and loading into jars and PCing is another method some people use but theres less water availible if fruiting directly off the grain (not a problem if your spawning). Soaking and then simmering for 30-40 minutes and then straining for 30 minutes or so will give you nice water content for grains if you had a problem following Annos grain method. And dont listen to those that say start with the PF Tek. I've never done the PF Tek, went right to grains (started soaking and simmering method instead of adding correct water contents though). Trust me, its the thing to do.

I think you need to do a bit more learning before you go telling people the ways theyre doing things are wrong when they really arent VALIS.

http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/26177

The above is a great tek by Magash, the same one I followed for my first grow. If you cant do it by Anno's/MMGG's method try it out. The following descirbes the MMGG method much more in depth by Anno.

http://www.fungifun.org/grain/

Stick with rye a forget the PF Tek. My first grow (rye):


Once I got the hang of it:




--------------------
"life is like a drop of rain getting closer and closer to falling into a lake, and then when you hit the lake there is no more rain drop, only the lake."

Growing with bags, start to finish (including my new grain and substrate prep)
Anyone looking to start bulk tubs/mono tubs/shotgun hybrids? Good tubs to use..
How I do grain (old still good tips)
Turn your closet into a fruiting chamber
Casing layer colonization and overlay


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OfflineVALIS
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Re: Is there nothing I can do??? [Re: scatmanrav]
    #3822739 - 02/23/05 04:34 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

scatmanrav said:
I dont know what everyones getting down on you about adding water first. Its funny because the same person that says "oh yeah you dont just add the correct water to the jar and PC" are giving you links to the PF Tek for simple minds by Anno, who prepares jars the same way as you did, 100ml of rye to 100ml of water and put both into each jar, then just PC it as is WITHOUT draining the water.




First of all, there is no false advice given when directing someone to a more simple method when they are having issues with the one they are using.

Secondly, Anno's PF and Anno's Grain teks are two _different_ teks; it's irrelevant that the author of the suggested tek uses the very same method that _failed_ for the poster in one of his other teks which wasn't being discussed.

Finally -


Quote:

This method will vary depending on the type and brand of whole grains you use (like millet or rye or WBS or popcorn ect) since each grain (and even the same types of grain and different brands) will hold differing amounts of water.




I believe that pretty much speaks for itself...


Quote:

I've never done the PF Tek, went right to grains (started soaking and simmering method instead of adding correct water contents though).




So does that.


Quote:

I think you need to do a bit more learning before you go telling people the ways theyre doing things are wrong when they really arent VALIS.




The way the poster did things was wrong... other wise it wouldn't have failed. Thus, my suggestion to:

A - try soaking, _then_ straining instead
B - try a more simple/clear/reliable tek - such as Anno's PF

It's ironic that while you're bunking my attempt to assist - you even admitted yourself that you first used to soak and strain! Additionaly, it's even more ironic that the very tek you're citing, states the following very clearly at the very beginning:

"There are 2 ways of preparing the grain, either by measuring grain and water, combining them in a jar and pressure cooking it, or first simmering the grain in order to achieve the proper water content, and then pressure cooking it."

Further....

"The water absorption ability can vary depending on the grain quality and the type and the size of the pressure cooker.

It's best to make a batch of test jars when one acquires a new grain for instance 100g rye and 100, 105, 110, 115 and 120g water.
Then you'll see which water content provides the best result."


Now... rather than relying on luck, or going through the process of doing a batch of test jars to calibrate the proper amount of water content - why not just simply soak, then strain, then load into jars and pc?

Also:

Quote:

Stick with rye a forget the PF Tek.




What part of: "Discard MMGG, go mostly by Anno's tek - just substitute the existing materials that you've already invested in where necessary/appropriate with the proper Teks as can be found here on the shroomery."

and:

"You'd probably do best by straining the soaked rye out of the jars - don't try to just simply poor out the water from each jar."

Was not clear?


Big whoop-de-fucking-doo... I don't think my advice was all that misguided.

By the way, that was a very impressive first grow - good thing you followed the very same Tek I linked to in my second response in this thread... which _strains_ the rye...


--------------------
Nature is the Technology of the Divine.


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