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OfflineWorkmanV
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Hydrapod test in progress * 1
    #381551 - 08/29/01 03:56 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Here is the Mcman Hydrapod set up in my salvaged University incubator to keep it at 75F. It has the optional deluxe florescent minilight installed on the dome. The cakes are freshly placed in the chamber in these pictures.



I am trying a few different kinds of cakes with different species. Included in the image are 4 different cubensis, 1 tampanensis, 1 mexicana and 1 weilii. These are standard halfpints and should give everyone an idea of the scale of this thing.

The tampanensis and mexicana cakes were a bit dry and unconsolidated. They fell apart somewhat when removed from the jar, especially the mexicana. I left the mexicana on the plastic lid to firm up before I placed it directly on the gro rock. I didn't want seeds to get down into the gravel.



I expect this thing to be pretty noisy with the airpump but I can barely hear it when set on a nonvibrating steady surface or suspended from its cord. I does make a gentle gurgling, waterfall sound like one of small indoor tabletop fountains.

The Spore Work's dark project scientists are busy reverse engineering the McManian Hydrapod technology.

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InvisibleDidjeridoo
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #381818 - 08/29/01 11:00 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

GO little HydraPod GO!!!

Support the FSR:smile:

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InvisibleThorA
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #381884 - 08/30/01 01:12 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

This is all so exciting, can't wait to see some results!

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OfflineWhat_Guy
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #381899 - 08/30/01 01:29 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

those,cake look really great, although I never even got in to cakes, just didn't mix well for me, so I went strait to bird seed I'm still not very good at making cakes, but I'm all over bird seed and grass seed. That is well thought piece of equipment and I hope all the best for your business!

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Edited by What_Guy on 08/30/01 02:30 AM.



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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: What_Guy] * 1
    #382032 - 08/30/01 09:38 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I don't do cakes either and I cheated to make those. I just took quarts of seed and packed them into halfpints and let them grow back together for 4 days. The dark one is a horse manure cake colonized with weilii.

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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Workman] * 1
    #382049 - 08/30/01 10:01 AM (22 years, 6 months ago)


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OfflineTryp'er
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan] * 1
    #382130 - 08/30/01 01:16 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Here is a ideal that might work for this pod. Berry Baskets, the kind that you get at stores and stands full off berries. I used these to make straw//grain cakes. but found there was no need to remove the basket, the mushrooms grew out fron the sides very well, and when it was time to havest the substrate wasnt disturbed or damaged by there removal.
I think these would work well for this and be easyer then to use glass jars. Also they hold a bit more substrate.


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InvisibleGGreatOne234
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #382766 - 08/31/01 01:20 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting mushroom machine..
Its too bad there are no Pan Caster spore cakes in there.
John Henry got beat by a machine,
The evil steel driving machine.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: GGreatOne234] * 1
    #382861 - 08/31/01 04:55 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

I'll try to squeeze them in the next round.

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Invisibleralphster44
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #382894 - 08/31/01 05:42 PM (22 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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Offlinepatzee
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman] * 1
    #386177 - 09/05/01 08:54 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Updates? Much appreciated. 9/5


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: patzee] * 1
    #387060 - 09/06/01 01:30 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

This image is day 6 in the pod. A few pins developed immediately in the central cake (Puerto Rican) but have now stalled. No pins on any of the others. The bright white fluffy cake in front is Ecuador cubensis. Today is day 8 and there doesn't seem to be any change.


The pod seems to be functioning correctly. The cakes were exposed to a few days of extreme temperature fluctuations from 75-95F but I don't think this caused any damage. I am not sure what the problem is at this time. I don't have much experience with cakes so it is hard for me to know what is happening. Perhaps the humidity is too high, since I have not yet reduced the the flood rate. I will do that today and report back.

This last pictures shows some of the cakes with mycelium growing into the gro rock.



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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Workman] * 1
    #387074 - 09/06/01 01:52 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan] * 1
    #387080 - 09/06/01 02:01 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

According to Stamet?s TMC the pinning temperature for P.cubensis is 74-78 ?F.(air temperature that is, the subtrate temperature will be a few degrees higher).




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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Anno] * 1
    #387082 - 09/06/01 02:03 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: McMan] * 1
    #387083 - 09/06/01 02:05 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleJared
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Deleted [Re: McMan] * 1
    #387547 - 09/06/01 11:23 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Content Removed.

Edited by Jared (04/01/04 01:11 AM)

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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Jared] * 1
    #387575 - 09/06/01 11:38 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan] * 1
    #387605 - 09/07/01 12:10 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm.... it almost looks like his airconditioner has not be running.... Why temps in the mid-90s I wonder?




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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Jared] * 1
    #387611 - 09/07/01 12:18 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

No heating? No airconditioning? Shesh.... next thing ya know we will discover that it dosent come with a built in DVD/MP3 player and optional cable modem for 'shroom related warez surfing!

haha (just kidding McMan!)
;)

Jammer



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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Jammer]
    #387659 - 09/07/01 01:40 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #388351 - 09/07/01 10:22 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

WORKMAN any pictoral updates on the fruiting of those cakes in the POD. Very curious to see how each species performed!!!!


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #388404 - 09/07/01 11:43 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Not much difference than in the earlier pictures. I'll post a photo when something dramatic happens. Hang in there. I pulled out the center Puerto Rican cake since it was panning and just didn't look like it was going to do much. Its a neat picture so I'll post that.



The bluish looking seedy areas are where the mycelium has collapsed and looks suspiciously like a mold infection, but isn't. You can see a few aborted pins that formed on day three in the pod but never grew any further. I have reduced the temperature in the pod and expect to see some fruits soon. The Ecuador cake looks especially promising.

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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Workman]
    #388435 - 09/08/01 12:15 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman]
    #388452 - 09/08/01 12:35 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Dude, please dont take this personal..... but, from the looks of those pics, if those cakes get more hot you could have a great side dish for a home cook dinner!





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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #388597 - 09/08/01 10:00 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I don't think you can stop the P.Rican from doing that, growing into the grow rocks. That is a prime example of the limitation of going HYDRO. Imagine if it was some kind of nutrient solution in the reservoir, the mycelium would have run right through it. Keep us updated, thanks.
How about those weilii, any pins on the manure substrate?


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Jammer]
    #388599 - 09/08/01 10:05 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: McMan]
    #388609 - 09/08/01 10:18 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #388628 - 09/08/01 10:55 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I was refering to the P.Rican spore race, it is very aggresive!!!!
And was just expressing the view that if you were adding extra nutrients, via the reservoir, like a true HYDRO set-up, you would see alot more of that. Those Ricans continue to grow mycelium until all the nutrients are exhausted. They grow right up the sides of your tray. When done in casings, you have to put a very large casing layer down, and they still can run right through it!!!
It was a spore race specific problem, not a system problem!!!
MCMAN , during your tests with nutrients, you had no problems with mycelium growing into the rocks? Were the nutrients added after pinning was visible, or from the beggining? Just curious!!! I don't see what the barrier would be, what is the geo-lite manufactured from?
I'm trying to understand what the reason would be for the mycelium halting it's growing, I know it is not just temperature, because mycelium will continue to grow at temperatures below 70 degrees F. Pinning is related to nutrient deprivation more than temperature induction. I think temperature induction is based more on the internal temperatures of the colonized cake. As the mycelium is rapidly growing it gives off heat, once nutrients are becoming more scarce, the mycelium slows it's growth, and the internal temperatures of the cake or casing, drop dramaticaly. Temperature mainly effects the rate of growth. But to completely stop mycelial growth by just lowering your temps?
What other barriers, maybe it is just the oxygen barrier in the pore space of the geo-lite. Very curious!!!
Gotta love those Rhizomorphs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Teonan on 09/08/01 12:10 PM.


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: ]
    #388632 - 09/08/01 11:03 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #388643 - 09/08/01 11:17 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

No , I wasn't stating that they grow in colder climates. I'm trying to figure out what the barrier is that stops most spore races from growing into the rocks, certainly wondering why when you added more nutrient to the reservoir. It is not about temperature!!!!


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: ]
    #388657 - 09/08/01 11:45 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleCLuB99
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman]
    #388785 - 09/08/01 03:27 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

workman, is a digital camera that you use to take those pics?? yes?? which brand-model??

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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #388870 - 09/08/01 06:23 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

A refridgerator is 40 F or less. I even have cultures on petris that continue to grow a bit at that temp, before haulting. We are talking about 68- 90 F. I have also picked cubies growing in the 50F range. Temperature regulates how slow or fast a colony grows. Nutrient deprivation, and in some species depletion is the ultimate trigger. When a colony approaches the deprivation level of nutrients it naturally will have lower temperatures at the core of the colony. Regardless of the ambient temperatures of the surrounding environment, growth is already coming to a stop, pins are initiated, they swell with water and you got shrooms. How can they revert to vegatative growth, with no more food to grow? Temperature has a greater role in initiation of cold climate shrooms, like Azures. But tropical and subtropical shrooms?
Cubensis?


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #388889 - 09/08/01 06:41 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Azures have an almost unlimited supply of nutrients, they colonize would chips. Teperature and moisture determine how quickly they colonate that pile of wood chips. Every year is different in those respects, so the colony gets bigger at different rates. It is in a limitless nutient pool, so something else would have to trigger fruiting, like temperature and humidity.
Cubensis is subtropical, and it will fruit all year long if moisture is available, and the pins are protected from excessive evaporation. Where do you find the most cubies in a field, in pockets of tall grass, they are trapping in moisture, maintaining a high humidity, and protecting them from an excessive evaporation rate. Now I am not saying you are gonna find any fruiting, under sustained Temperatures Above or below an established range. Like when it is freezing outside. By that time the colony has stopped doing anyhting, veg. or fruit. But temperature is far less important in cubie culture. Nutrient availability is the primary mechanism for pin initiation!!!!! Cubies grow in July, you just have to find wet fields, with good grass cover. But in culture, you can always give them exactly what they need.

Pins were already formed on the cakes in the pods, they were just not developing. I think that has very little to do with the Temperature they were at, looks more like an evaporation rate problem. Because cubies will fruit at much colder temps then workman had his at. They will also fruit at higher temperatures.


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: CLuB99]
    #388920 - 09/08/01 07:43 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

The camera is a Sony Mavica FD85. It uses standard floppy disks for storage media. The camera works good in adequate light but gets grainy in poor light conditions without a flash. Its not a high end camera, merely 1.3 megapixels, but it is fine for online posting and webwork.

I am beginning to agree with Teonan on the cake fruiting problem in the pod. I suspect poor evaporations rates for the pin stalling. Perhaps a larger air pump and less water cycling is the key.

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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Workman]
    #389092 - 09/09/01 12:04 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleMuckraker
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #389129 - 09/09/01 01:21 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I could see where newbies fucking up the HydraPod and its parameters could be "excusable"- they don't know what they're doing. But this is WORKMAN we're talking about here! Anyone ELSE ever check out a site called SporeWorks.com??! Anyone ELSE just "know" Workman knows his shit?

* Anyone else concerned that a 2 degree shift in temperature ranges makes the HydraPod useless? (Anyone else live in the hothouse required to keep the HydraPod at optimal temps?)
* Anyone else concerned that there seems to be a million "reasons" given why the HydraPod doesn't work, and nothing but McMan's word that we're "doing it wrong" to back him up?
* Anyone else think it's not as easy as promised? In fact, that it's damn near impossible to get a pin off this thing?
* Anyone else think the Keeper's shrooms on the STP site look better than the shrooms we've seen the HydraPod put out?

Anyone else think to themselves, "Why does it seem that the only one getting results off the HydraPod is McMan?"

I love the idea that a pod like this exists, in theory at least. But, seeing the high failure rate of newbies and professionals alike, it seems to be more of a problem with the product than the consumer.


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OfflineDystopian Harbinger
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Muckraker]
    #389145 - 09/09/01 01:54 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I think you may be jumping a bit far to reach your conclusions Muckraker. It seems in your haste to bash McMan you missed that in workman's post he said
In reply to:


I have reduced the temperature in the pod and expect to see some fruits soon. The Ecuador cake looks especially promising.



If it dosent work you'll hear about it. I think that many could agree that workman is going to post his results without bias. Mabye before running around like the town crier shouting "ripoff" why not just wait for this crop to unfold, hear workman's response and then, react. I think that McMan's offer of a refund to anyone who wants it MORE than fair. In the meanwhile, relax...you'll live longer.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid.
-Nietzsche

Edited by Dystopian Harbinger on 09/09/01 02:56 AM.



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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Muckraker]
    #389197 - 09/09/01 04:14 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Who are you? Your not a compeating vedor or you? I see that this is your first post with this handle.



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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Jammer]
    #389325 - 09/09/01 11:52 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

First of all, no one here is suggesting that the thing does not work, LET"S GET THAT CLEAR!!!
We are discussing various aspects of the grow cycle and how that relates to the POD. I have never said it does not work, nor am I suggesting that. A user of the pod is having trouble getting mature shrooms, and MCMANS post clearly explained many reasons why it might not be working. We are certainly not doubting MCMAN.
My personal interest had very little to do with why they are not maturing, that is obvious!!! EVAPORATION RATE!! Which temperature, humidity, and air exchange all play roles in. My concern or more of an interest was in how the mycelium does not grow into the geo-lite, and I am really interested in how it does not when Extra nutrients are added into the reservoir. MCMAN said he had tried that before, and the mycelium did not grow into the geo-lite. I was curious what the invisible barrier was, O2, the geo-lite itself, ect... but the only answer I have gotten was temperature. This answer does not explain it for me!!!! Because mycelium will continue to grow at very low temperatures, and very high temperatures. This is completley seperate from the temperature requirements needed to maintain the pod itself!!! The pod is an enclosed system and needs to be used at the recommended parameters, and if I were anyone using it, I would certainly follow the directions!!!!
TEMPERATURES at 68 F outside the system, are not sufficient to halt the mycelium from growing. Reduced nutrients, and exposure to high levels of Oxygen, will on the other hand form a sufficient barrier to continual mycelial growth. I guess that is the thing I was really wondering. I am absolutely positive Temperature is not the reason for the mycelium dying back in the straw cake observed in MCMANS post. What is the barrier? To wet, to much O2, the geo-lite, these are realistic possibilities, not Temperature.


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: ]
    #389396 - 09/09/01 01:32 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #389455 - 09/09/01 02:26 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry guys. Im just another hippie that has surfed other type related sites. I too think that my last responce on this thread was directed to another user too... It's easy to get confused with so many handles. Anyway, if anyone cares, Im a regular "joe" that works a white collor 9-5 and spends most of my spare time playing music and surfing sites.
I had the misfortune in the past of beliveing that perscription pain killers were a good buzz... So after nearly killing myself with the pills, nearly 10 years ago, I feel more comfortable around other fellow "heads" and 'shroomers. I hope thats cool....

Later
Jammer



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>>Jammer>>

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OfflineJammer
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Jammer]
    #389457 - 09/09/01 02:31 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I just wanted to point out that if any of my recent responces dont seem to quite fit into the thread flow that it's because I seem to have misread the threads.... man we have a lot of users on this site! I mean it's like... I GET SO CONFUSED SOMETIMES!! ... heheh - so please disregaurd if any of my recent replies dont seem to apply. Thanks.

Jammer



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>>Jammer>>

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InvisibleBrownPastures
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Jammer]
    #389804 - 09/09/01 09:55 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

WHoa jammer,,, your like,,,, ummm baked.

D D Island

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InvisibleJared
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Deleted [Re: ]
    #389845 - 09/09/01 10:44 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Content Removed.

Edited by Jared (04/01/04 01:11 AM)

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InvisibleMcMan
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    #389849 - 09/09/01 10:49 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: Workman]
    #389867 - 09/09/01 11:11 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Day 11: After reducing the flood drain rate and lowering humidity a pin shows up on the Ecuador cake. The picture detail is poor but it is there, on the pure white cake in front, that small dot near the top edge, yeah you see it, that one.

I don't require or want a refund. The pod is well made and appears to be theoretically sound in design. I am sure I just need to work out the adjustments for my home environment.



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Invisiblejheck
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress *DELETED* [Re: Workman]
    #389872 - 09/09/01 11:25 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

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InvisibleMcMan
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    #389902 - 09/10/01 12:37 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #389935 - 09/10/01 02:02 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

MCMAN
I germinate some cubensis spores on a plate. Transfer a couple of times, wind up with a pure strain. I forget about a couple of them in a box. The temperature throuout the process never goes up or down, but remains at a constant 85 F. Well some time goes by and I remember the plates. I remove them from the box, about 25 days have passed, and the mycelium has started to fill in all the available space between the now drasticaly depleted agar media, and the lid of the sealed petri. The funny thing is there are pins all over the place.
Everything has remained constant, the high humidity, high CO2 levels, and the temperature has remained the same. Why do I have pins? What has changed?
Answer: the nutritional content of the media. The mycelium has begun to completely deplete the petri dish of food. Only alternative, Reproduce!!!!
If I leave a spawn jar at 85 degrees for five days and lower the temperature to 75 or 70, it will take longer to colonize, but does it stop growing and automatically fruit. Maybe if I remove it from the jar, lay it out in a tray, therefore reducing CO2, and maintain adequate moisture. But invitro without the other environmental factors to help initiate.
So yes I guess we disagree. I think Temperature plays a role in the rate of growth, and can have stimulatory effects on fruiting, but it is not the primary factor in initiating pins of at least P. cubensis. I am sure many other species would also have this ability to pin at constant temperatures above any "shock" temperature, invitro, under high CO2 and humidity.
NOW mushroom developement is an entirely different story. That's where the evaporation rate becomes so important. And that is certainly tied in with Gas exchange, and moisture, far more importantly than nutrition, which was the basis for are last discussion. Mushrooms being a product of expansion not growth, relying most importantly on the availability of moisture, not nutrients.
Peace Teonan


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InvisibleMcMan
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    #389954 - 09/10/01 02:55 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #390367 - 09/10/01 03:23 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

No, I do not believe that cubensis will fruit invitro by lowering temperatures only. If CO2, is high, and there are available nutrients, i.e the jar is not completely colonized, they will not fruit. Temperature is a stimulus in fruiting, not a dependent factor, with cubensis. Temperature regulates the growth RATE not life cycle. So I think we still disagree. I will agree that mycelium will grow quickest at 86F for cubensis, but it will continue to grow vegetatively at 70 F if the CO2 remains high, and there is still food to eat. This is what I am trying to clearify. Temperature relates primarily to growth rate, because if all other variables remain constant, except temperature, fruiting will not automatically start. But if the same experiment is done, but all variables remain constant, and only nutrient deprivation occurs, they will automaticaly fruit. This leads me to believe that with cubensis, Temperature by itself is only a growth rate Factor. Where as nutrient deprivation is a determining factor in Pin initiation.
When you lower the temperatures you are not neccessarily telling the colony it is time to fruit, you are slowing it's metabolism. Hence the advantage with overlay. But you are not stopping Veg. growth, only slowing it. When temperatures are high, the Growth rate of the mycelium speeds up, but you are not signaling it to stop fruiting. It will continue to fruit, if nutrients are depleted. You will however force the mycelium back into Veg. growth if more nutrients are added, and Co2 levels rise again. All in disregard to the temperature. It will happen slower or faster in relation to temperature. Again we are discussing Cubensis.
Now I do believe Temperature has a strong effect on the quality of fruits, but it is not a determining factor of Pin initiation. The experiment suggested in the last post, Invitro at a constant temperature, proves that. Don't look at it like it was a fruit or die situation, look at it for what it represents. A controlled experiment, tying in GAS EXCHANGE,TEMPERATURE, MOISTURE CONTENT, HUMIDITY, AND NUTRIENTS; and the effect these things have on the initiation of Pins in Cubensis. The only factor present was the depletion of nutrients. Temperature was basicaly irrelevant, High Co2 levels and humidity also irrelevant. Only Nutrient deprivation and/or depletion played a role. Turn the experiment inside out, you will find similar results. Put a pure strain on a petri and lower temperatures but keep everything else constant. The mycelium will slow down it's veg growth, nutrients will still be available, other factors are constant, but no Pins. The mycelium continues to grow slowly across the plate, until it's nutrients are depleted, then it fruits.
Peace Teonan


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #390380 - 09/10/01 03:41 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Now cold weatherspecies who knows? I think if it was studied it would be determined that temperature has an indirect stimulus factor here also. Possibly just relating to a slow down in the metabolism of the mycelium to the point of nutrient unavailability? Alot of studies need to be done? And as I said before Research is limited into edible mushrooms, certainly at the University level. As you stated Privately there is research being done, but I think at the private level it is cost ineffective to study such things. They want to know how much Yield can be Had in the least amount of time from the least amount of space!!!!!! Correct? They are not researching for the sake of research!!!
Temperature definetly plays a larger role in the Life Cycle of cold weather species, but I do believe it is indirect, like the above situation.
Peace Teonan


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Offlinehumplok9
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #390437 - 09/10/01 04:44 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

no offence, but i never saw a mushroom grown on the mcman hydo pod yet



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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: humplok9]
    #390470 - 09/10/01 05:19 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

There is a picture of one in this thread!!!!!! And if I were MCMAN I wouldn't post any more either. That was the point of giving one a way for testing. So someone could post results. He is now a vendor, and it is not in his best interest to post pictures of illegal activity with a product he is selling being used!!!! Pay attention to what is being said in the exchange between us, we are not arguing the functionality of his POD. I'm certain it works!!!!! Why wouldn't it?
OOPS pictures are in the BETA TESTER THREAD at the forest floor.

Edited by Teonan on 09/10/01 06:27 PM.


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: ]
    #390540 - 09/10/01 06:47 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #390711 - 09/10/01 08:56 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

No problem, MCMAN, I too enjoy these conversations.
Yes Temperature controls growth rate . Yes Mycelium grows FASTEST at HIGHER TEMPERATURES, but so will shrooms.
The trigger from Veg. to Fruit is primarily one of Nutrient Depletion and /or Deprivation of substrate.
Optimum Pin set will be determined by making available fresh Air, proper moisture content, and lowered temperatures ( which will occur inside the substrate itself upon depletion of nutrients) at the right timing, which will be determined by the depletion of nutrients from the substrate. If you can time all this right, you get optimum pin set.
Lowering temps on it's own without proper air exchange will not triggerPins.

P.S. those P. ricans will still veg at low temps. It is just very aggressive. I still think the no pinning was more related to Air exchange than temperature. But if you have to lower the temperature to get the proper exchange, then DO IT!!!! I never fruit cubies below 75 degrees. But I live in The DEEP SOUTH, sunny old MIAMI. It would cost a small fortune to run the AC that much!!!
Peace Teonan



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InvisibleJared
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Deleted [Re: McMan]
    #390726 - 09/10/01 09:10 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Content Removed.

Edited by Jared (04/01/04 01:11 AM)

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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: Jared]
    #390860 - 09/10/01 11:18 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #390897 - 09/10/01 11:50 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

You are making perfect sense!!! 100 percent. Directions should always be followed. Sorry I got you so off topic with my posting, sorry to Workman too.
Peace Teonan


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #393318 - 09/13/01 12:04 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I used to wonder what caused mushrooms to fruit on agar and still do. I do not believe it is because it runs out of nutrients but because some starnge succession of breakdown of compounds caused be growing mycelium. I read that if a certain compound is introduced into the agar than mushrooms will fruit on the agar. (the mushroom resercher). Also according to this the succession of "enzyme excretions allows mushooms to grow in habitats full of contamintion. before contamination can take over musrhoom Myceilum the mycelium release other enzynmes than they go and grow while the contamination is working to the original enyzeme excreeted by growing mycelium. Of course there is no question about the speed of growth of mushooms once they pin to be controlled largley by temperture. From my own experiece of the homestead strain. i was growing them in terrarium on grain. Mushooms fruited at around 70 degrees taking 3 days to fully mature. the grain later became contaminated. I that cut out the fresh inoculated cowshit and waited keeping stable conditions, for as long as i had waited from the pinning initation until pinning started from the grain. I deccided to leave town. So i backed up put the terrarium in the van in headed west. This was a humid night in flordia around may. Don't know the exact tempature but close to 90 degrees in the terrerium the musrhooms grew within 8 hours when i had looked before leaving nothing.(looking with a magnifine glass) 8 hours later veil breaks sprores release. peace end violence evolve. the scientist is no philospher just works for them. there are no countries in reality. Sorry just watching tv.


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: rungi]
    #393363 - 09/13/01 12:58 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

It is the deprivation of nutrient availability. I was just giving an actual example with the invitro agar refrence. There are countless studies in many Fungal physiology books, certain mushrooms will not fruit until ALL the nutrients have been used, these are not observations, but scientific, reproducible facts. Of course various enzymes are probably envolved in the actual initiation of pins, but we were discussing the environmental trigger that stimulates the enzymes into activation.
As in plants it is the duration of the light/dark cycle that triggers flowering, but it is the elusive PHYTOCHROME that actually makes it happen at the enzymatic level.


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #394220 - 09/14/01 11:16 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I believe scientific reproductions are observations and that the word IS in reference to the reason for enzymes to trigger intitation because of deprivation is one single thing unattachable from the multiplicity of events that causes this. I am not a chemist, but belive most of chemisty is trial and error first and then once observed able to be replicated. The reason one may think that it is not the deprivation of nutrients is by the the observation of the wild cubensis growing cycle macroscopically. For example at certain times tempature seems to control not only the mycelium growth but also the other microclimatic. Is it by pure conincidence of certain nutrient depletions cause a shift simulataneious fruiting across and entire landscape. can you give a percentage. of the neccessity of nutrient depletion for mycelium to shift into reproduction. Some mushroom cultivated look totally different from there wild conterpart for example a speices of mushroom that is powdered growing wild and nakedno powder when cultivated. This of couse is related to the cubensis that produced no psilocybin by nutritional chemisty. or greater amounts of psilocybin by chemistry adding nutrients, or depleting nutrients of the medium. i am just not that confident on the deprivation theory. But if i see reproducabel in controled evidence how can i dobt. peace.


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: rungi]
    #394249 - 09/14/01 11:54 AM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #394383 - 09/14/01 02:46 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

I have faith in McMann! (As I giggle and rub my hands together).

Leaf


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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #395085 - 09/15/01 12:02 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

Temperature drop relates to moisture content and relative humidity and this is the coincidence. Morels are cultivated on the concept I am arguing. Mycelium is completley deprived of nutrient base, to form sclerotia, in the abscense of nutrient, based on the nutrient they have already consumed. These sclerotia are fruited.
Cubensis is subtropical, and my arguments where based on
WARM WEATHER MUSHROOMS. Stametes as you know stated also that warm weather species do not conform to
Temperature induction. I stated that temperature plays an increased role in cold weather species. They will not fruit above or below a certain temperature range.
Cubensis on the other hand will fruit in a high CO2 environment, at hot temperatures. The only variable that can be left is NUTRIENT DEPRIVATION. Now strains within the species have higher and lower sensitivities to CO2 and Temperature, but as a whole, they will initiate pins invitro regardless of a temperature drop or high CO2, but only after they have used up the available nutrients, and have completed their colonization of the substrate. This my friends can only be linked to NUTIENT DEPRIVATION, because all other variables have remained constant.
You can call it coincidence, but it is reproducible, and would hold up in any Scientific Journal.
All of your quotes from stametes are related to COLD WEATHER SPECIES. And each and every quote relates Temperature in combination with OTHER signals. Not on it's own. My statement has isolated all triggers, the only thing that has changed is Nutrient Availability. My scientific study is sound and reproducible, it is not based on combinations of temperature and .......... Only on the lack of nutrient availability without other stimuli. I am not disagreeing with stametes, re read his books.
" Strains isolated from subtropical or tropical climates generally do not require a cold shock." Paul Stametes, GGMM.
If you want a concentration, well I am gonna need a Lab with some equipment.
Temperature is related to other environmental factors. When temperatures fall, it usually rained, and is followed by drier air, hence the evaporation rate is increased. All of these factors are crucial for maturation, but not neccesary for initiation in CUBENSIS.
Once the colony has been established, you can remove all nutrients, and the shrooms are still gonna grow up, they are not consuming nutrients, they are absorbing water. They are not like plants, and the mycelium is the roots. Once a substantial mass has been achieved, the size of the mushrooms is in relation to that quantity of mycelial mass. Because they are not growing more mycelium, the mushrooms are formed from the mycelium already present. The mycelium is woven by the hyphal knot into a pin, this pin swells with water. Water in the wild is associated with a decrease in temperature, and the following decrease in relative humidity. These factors mature the pins. If you are a mycelium growing in colder climates, you would want to fruit at colder temperatures, so that your mycelial mass could grow as large as possible before fruiting. The more mycelial mass the more fruits.
Subtropical shrooms have shorter life spans, they grow quickly, need very little if any rest, and they fruit when moisture is available, followed by a lower relative humidity. Even the latter is probably very insignificant, the relative humidity in the swelling mushroom is probably close to a 100 percent, so anything less in the air, will cause a gradient sufficient to expand the mushrooms. Cubensis is not Azurescens. There life cycle looks the same in a diagramn, but it is very different.
Pins form invitro on Nutrient agar after a sufficient amount of time has passed, to obtain enough mass, and to consume the majority of available nutrients. Nutrients are inside the agar, but the mycelium is not, it gets harder and harder to obtain the remaining nutrients, hence the deprivation, and subsequent pin set, regardless of lowered temperatures or CO2.





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Anonymous

Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: ]
    #395096 - 09/15/01 12:15 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

And MCMAN you should no better than anyone here that the Temperature drop is only introduced after the mycelium has completley colonized the substrate, not before.
Read between the lines, All the factors you are suggesting occur after nutrient deprivation has begun. This is the TIMING factor, he describes Advanced cultivators using.
And how you can continue to argue against the invitro pin test, is hard to understand. What other factor is in play? Temperature is constant, it's invitor so no air exchange is occuring, moisture is relatively constant. What other factor besides NUTRIENT DEPRIVATION?
I think you are not paying attention to that. I agree that a temperature drop is neccessary for initiating pins in a Temperate mushroom, but I am talking about NON- Temperate mushrooms. And I will still argue that the temperature drop in cold weather strains has more to do with slowing the ability of the mushroom to EAT it's unlimited nutrient base, so it has time to fruit, while other conditions, like moisture are present. Temperature has to have a role in this process, with the temperate species.
So yes you are absolutely right, when growing temperate species, once your mycelium has colonized it's substrate, you have to drop temperatures to get it to fruit.
But if you think you have to with cubensis, I don't think you have been listening, to me or Stametes.


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: ]
    #395144 - 09/15/01 01:40 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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InvisibleMcMan
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Post deleted by users_request [Re: McMan]
    #395146 - 09/15/01 01:43 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)


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Offlinerungi
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Re: Hydrapod test in progress [Re: McMan]
    #395338 - 09/15/01 05:59 PM (22 years, 5 months ago)

the mycelium must have dehydrated otherwise what would cause the mycelium to stop growing. cooler tempature may have nothing to do with them fruiting but the water took them out of hibernation which isnt to say that the nutrients werent depleted before the mycelium dehydrated.


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