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Offlinezahudulallah
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Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out?
    #3812390 - 02/21/05 07:02 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Lately I've been getting into the written works and life of Dr. Timothy Leary. I was reading much about his life when I learned that he ratted out comrades who helped break him out of prison. My heart sank to my stomach when I read this.


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3812423 - 02/21/05 07:07 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Believe what you will.  You weren't there so you don't know what happened for sure.  :cool:


McKennaDMT  :stoned: :stoned: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3812672 - 02/21/05 07:49 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I've gone over this many times. The info he gave to the Feds led to no arrests. What does that tell you about the quality of the information?





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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3812698 - 02/21/05 07:54 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

However, Leary was definitely someone we could profile under a category of "egotistical," "arrogant," "blasphemous without cause," and mouthy.

His books have a few interesting statements but are otherwise quite unviable (to put it rather eloquently).

Many people were inspired by him simply because of the LOUDNESS of his style, declaring LSD as a guaranteed door to spiritual experience(s).

As a result of his loud style, his generation abused LSD and made it into a stupid drug instead of a Sacred substance. LSD was made illegal in-part because of the way Leary carried himself - a self-proclaimed psychedelic prophet and someone who ultimately died in confusion of his destination.


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3812720 - 02/21/05 07:58 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

All of the federal investigation interviews I have read, are half blacked-out with marker, leaving me unable to decipher.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: World Spirit]
    #3812791 - 02/21/05 08:10 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I respect your opinion.

There is another possiblity, though. Perhaps psychedelics were going to be made illegal anyway and if it weren't for Leary, very few people would have known about them.





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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3812800 - 02/21/05 08:13 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

did you see him on spaceghost?


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InvisibleMarioNett
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3812872 - 02/21/05 08:31 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Learyfan is right, he just handed the feds a bunch of BS.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3812963 - 02/21/05 08:52 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Leary and G. Gordon Liddy, who pursued him reconciled their personal differences later in life. Both men apparently saw the whole drama and the roles they each played in it from a rather cosmic perspective. I've seen a photo of the two men shaking hands and smiling.

Leary just wasn't made for prison, and those who helped him escape (a real story in itself) obviously knew if they had to split, and had ample time to do so. Leary had his young daughter to worry about and she'd been through a lot by then, including being his personal little 'mule' when necessary. Enter was right when he said that Leary's attitude was off. He did much to hurt the psychedelic movement in his 'let's give LSD to every man, woman and child' off-the-chain way. Albert Hofmann himself had expressed his concern about this flamboyance.

I'm not dissing Tim Leary. I met him twice almost 20 years apart. I even offered him some shrooms when I saw him in Florida 10 years ago (which he declined, and fairly paranoically at that). He did sign a hardcover copy of The Psychedelic Experience at both meetings. Let the bidding commence at $10,000 - do I hear $10,000...?


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: MarioNett]
    #3812994 - 02/21/05 08:59 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

It defintely looks like he handed the feds BS. The guy is a psychologist, he understands how these things work.


As far as the debate between prophet vs. messianic complex, well I think it's both in many ways. For the most part, a large portion of people just weren't ready to consider psychedelics and "mind expansion". This certainly caused enough fear into people to want something (the government) to change it.

Of course, much of this was created and controlled by the government. So the two only fed off each other.

However, I will say that I think Leary contributed to that fear by doing things in order to spite the norm and authorities. It's only a matter of time before those in power try to change something that highly challenging to authority.

I think if Leary saw the big picture of making long-term change rather then to induce it onto society as a whole, it would have worked better. Perhaps that was part of the scene though, the idea that there was global change and that people were going to make it. I personally wish our society would "get it" and use it to their collective benefit instead of fearing it.


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The very nature of experience is ineffable; it transcends cognitive thought and intellectualized analysis. To be without experience is to be without an emotional knowledge of what the experience translates into. The desire for the understanding of what life is made of is the motivation that drives us all. Without it, in fear of the experiences what life can hold is among the greatest contradictions; to live in fear of death while not being alive.



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Anonymous

Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Twirling]
    #3813153 - 02/21/05 09:27 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

leary admitted late in his life that he probably shouldn't have been so loud about things, and that it wasn't necessarily right to spread LSD like he did. he also admitted he didn't really appreciate or like hippies much, which surprised me.


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: ]
    #3813432 - 02/21/05 10:12 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

where did you read that?


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Offlinezahudulallah
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #3813457 - 02/21/05 10:18 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

I always thought that Tim Leary could have done alot more for the movement of LSD if he had stayed more mainstream, and remained as a psychologist. It's too bad he was greatly immature in his advocacy of psychedelics. However he must have been doing something right to have Richard Nixon call him "the most dangerous man in America."


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: ]
    #3813520 - 02/21/05 10:37 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jono1 said:
leary admitted late in his life that he probably shouldn't have been so loud about things, and that it wasn't necessarily right to spread LSD like he did. he also admitted he didn't really appreciate or like hippies much, which surprised me.




I'd like to see a source on that. Was this after he got senile?





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InvisibleColonel Kurtz Ph.D
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3813619 - 02/21/05 10:53 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I always thought that Tim Leary could have done alot more for the movement of LSD if...




Quote:

As a result of his loud style, his generation abused LSD and made it into a stupid drug...




I'd love to see any of us do a tenth of what he did for the psychedelic movement . If it weren't for him we probably wouldn't be here in the first place, talking of these things.

So don't start dissing so easily on a man who dedicated his life to an ideal, whether a good or bad one in your opinion. I would want to see any of us in his position (incarcerated, prosecuted, living as a fugitive half of his life, all because of his beliefs) and remaining a man of his moral stature.



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Colonel Kurtz Ph.D]
    #3813694 - 02/21/05 11:03 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'd love to see any of us do a tenth of what he did for the psychedelic movement . If it weren't for him we probably wouldn't be here in the first place, talking of these things.



:nod:


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Anonymous

Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3813705 - 02/21/05 11:05 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

i read it recently, in the past week. it was surprising to read that leary didn't like the hippies that much.

i believe it may have been in the online book BEL (brotherhood of eternal love)

not exactly sure, but i did read that. it wasn't directly quoted, but it was said that leary didn't like hippies all that much, and it may have been a mistake to spread LSD like he did, for a variety of reasons.


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Anonymous

Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: ]
    #3813733 - 02/21/05 11:08 PM (12 years, 2 months ago)

yep, BEL it was. a quick google search helps.

"Like Hofmann, Leary mulled over the results of his work in the 1960s. Soon after he returned to the United States in 1973, he admitted he might have made a mistake in encouraging LSD use to spread so wide. In a British television interview, he said he had never really liked the hippies, but later expressed continued admiration for John Griggs and the original Brothers."

this is a good read:
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/books/bel7.htm


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: ]
    #3814321 - 02/22/05 12:34 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

Right, he never liked the hippies. He sure did spend a lot of time with these people he never liked.

His advacocy of LSD is very debatable. He did draw a lot of attention from the Feds to it. Huxley, Heard, Hubbard and those guys did tell him to lay low. But I think overall, he contributed a lot more to the movement than he hurt it. He was by no means perfect, but he was a great teacher and led an extremely interesting life.





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Anonymous

Re: Timothy Leary a fraud/sell-out? [Re: Learyfan]
    #3814351 - 02/22/05 12:38 AM (12 years, 2 months ago)

who knows. he probably didn't like most hippies. but he sure wanted followers, or students, whatever you want to call them. remember, back then it was also trendy to be a hippie, and not everyone was true to themselves. just like a lot of hippies today, being full of shit. he was a little fucked up, in my opinion. he had a huge ego.

personally, i have never really connected with much of what he has said, in my limited knowledge of him.


Edited by Anonymous (02/22/05 12:41 AM)


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